WASH the ROCKS FIRST!!! I do not use rocks as a mulch, but I do have a dry stream bed and another area with decorative rocks. I use a heavy amount of newspaper and then a double-layer of the good weed barrier. My stream bed is made up of all pebbles that I have dug up during gardening (I live on Long Island - a "boulder" here is anything bigger than a foot; a "rock" is anything the size of a fist; we mostly have beach pebbles). I literally wash all the dirt off my rocks before putting them in the stream. The rocks you buy in bags MUST BE WASHED as well!!! I bought some pretty rocks for a walk-about around a planter, and I realized that there was so much rock dust in the bag that weeds were bound to grow in it, so they had to be washed first. Here's my rock-washing technique (using pots with holes doesn't work - all the dirt collects in the bottom): I have a 2ftx4ft garden cart that is made of a steel mesh, so it drains. I cut a piece of window screen to fit it, then dump a layer of rocks on top and use a sprayer hose to power wash them. Note: Eventually weeds will grow down into both newspaper and weed barrier. Heavy newspaper will last a few years though. Weeds grow in cedar mulch as well, but they are easy to pull. Be careful with newspaper/ weed barrier if you have groundcover bulbs - they will eventually push their way up and it looks really bad. Also, if you have shrubs, do not put the newspaper too close - the newspaper will block any fertilizer you apply. DO NOT use impermeable plastics as a weed barrier - you will kill your plants, create puddles, and DESTROY the beneficial soil microorganisms. Plus, when you lift up the plastic (even after a few weeks) it will REEK like a landfill (due to anaerobic decomposition). Newspaper smothers weeds below ground, but I have just discovered that even doubled-up weed barrier does not stop small weeds from rooting into the ground. I have a small berm that I am trying to create a moss garden on with chunks of recycled concrete, and my moss keeps being invaded by grass, so I laid down a thick layer of weed barrier on the berm last year, then put in the concrete chunks, hoping that would stop weeds. Well, this spring I found a baby Maple seedling that rooted itself through 2-3 layers of weed barrier into the soil beneath. Now I have to remove all the concrete and smother the area with newspaper, then weed barier (seems to be ok for grass weeds), and then I'll probably put down a layer of sand-clay mixture that will harden into cement before the concrete chunks are put back. There is nothing worse than removing weeds from moss - the moss gets pulled up with the weeds. Even though I washed the rocks for my stream, I cannot keep all the dirt out because leaves fall from the trees and then decompose into dirt. So, if I start getting weeds there I will try either the vinegar or salt-solution remedy (my mother sprays ammonia on weeds that pop up between the bricks along the driveway). All the plants along my stream are at least one foot away from the edge, so hopefully I won't kill them.

Brook - never used fungicides on the onions - I have been trying to get them pulled as soon as they start to droop and getting into the shed to cure. Sometimes the weather does not co-operate and the last couple of years actually had to dig them with a spading fork as the roots were too deep and tore the bottoms off an unacceptable number. On my list (you know the one as long as my arm) is to build an onion digger attachment for the tractor. We plant 6" centers on 12" rows so it has to be offset to the tractor but that's no big deal. Marla - we got the Poast from FS. Dad's been dealing with them for years and had most of them in school along with their kids so they are pretty good about taking care of them. IIRC E&R also carries it (they are more over your way) but can not find their catalog off hand to see. It's a RUP so to get it you have to have your Private Applicator's tag but that's realy simple to get. A little secret is that there is a home based product that is the same as Poast called Hi-Yeild Grass Killer. It comes in small bottles (pints I think as opposed to the Poast which came in a 2.5 gallon jug) so the cost per sqft coverage is higher but if you don't need much you save off the big jug price. I have seen it at Rural King and Farm and Fleet - it is not restricted use. Tom

It is in the grass. No, I haven't done a soil test. I could dig some up and bring it to Lowes or HD (think they test there). Much of the soil there has come from the bags you get at HD or Lowes ..I don't buy the cheapest but also don't buy the most expensive. Also, my son suggested maybe the horsetail came from a plant I purchased (could even have come from the soil I purchased) because nobody else in the neighborhood either side of me has it. They will if I don't get rid of it though. This is the 2nd year I think I've noticed it. I'm going to go outside (hopefully today) and dig up some of those weeds. I can't redo the beds right now but my grandson (15) is going to come by on the weekend and start digging up the ones alongside the grass ...I have some bushes growing there also. Q. Is it possible to leave the big bushes in the ground (the rose bush which is doing so well ...last year it flourished! and the hydrangea ) I can dig up the shasta daisy and the sedums bc I know they will come back, but I'm worried about the rose bush and hydrangea bush and the clematis. So Can I put cardboard around those plants????? This post was edited by nanaclaire on Mon, May 19, 14 at 10:33

Perhaps true to character for some, poison ivy has taken over this thread. My search for "understory shrubs to shade out weeds" led me here. I am in North Florida, and I like to have safe access to my mature loblolly grove to clear out by hand or weed wrench the returning coral ardesia, nandina, air potato, and broad leaf privet. (In my experience "done once and for all" and "gardening" are mutually exclusive.) But the poison ivy also overgrown there is an obstacle course. Would introducing lots of some native shade loving plants out compete the above listed exotic invasives, so I could let the poison ivy alone? Or would the PI eventually fill up the chain link fence and smother the old camelias there? We are talking fairly deep shade on the ground but dappled sun on the camelia branches. What natives if any?