Have you looked at the Liebherr?

I have a negative impression of Liebherr, having read only pretty negative reviews.

However, a friend of mine who builds high-end homes told me to not get a Sub Zero, that I'd be having expensive repairs two years from now, etc. A friend told me she'll never get a Sub Zero again because the repairs are so expensive.

Any appliance could need repair shortly down the road. Unfortunately, on high end appliances those repairs cost more than lower end ones. There is no way around that risk with any brand.

2 compressors are better for food preservation than one. Last time I checked these out the SubZero was in a different league from the Monogram in terms of build quality. Though, I was looking at built-in models, not integrated. I believe the Monogram integrated models are outsourced to an Eastern European manufacturer.

Groan.

The Liebherr also has two compressors and is much less expensive than the Sub Zero, but I had gotten it in my head to stay away from Libherr after reading nothing good about them online. Perhaps that too is misleading and they've improved.

As for the repairs, I think the point is that, people who bought Sub Zeros "20 years ago" have few complaints and say they've run lie a work horse the whole time. So have they gone downhill in terms of reliability? I know the two compressors and SZ's air cleaner keeps food fresh longer, but $5,000+ worth longer?

If I spent that kind of money on a Refrigerator and it needed a repair within five years, I would be a very angry customer.

Very helpful, Allison. Thank you! It sounds like you are saying you would not get another GE Monogram. I don't think any of these built-in/integrateds have a whole lot of capacity precisely because they cut back on the depth. That's not really an issue for me. In fact, the only reason I'm not getting the 30" is because the freezers on them are SO small, and I think freezer space is critical.

It looks like Thermador scores highest on your CR ratings. Why are you not considering a Thermador?

Subzero isn't really known for reliability.

Have you looked at Consumer Report? Have you considered Bosch, Gaggenau, Blomberg, or Fischer Paykel? It just seems to me that counter depth smaller fridges have been around longer in Europe.

I'm revisiting Thermador. I think Fischer & Paykel doesn't have a great track record. I'll look at the Gaggenau and Blombergs. Thanks!

I figured the Thermador pricing was on par with the Sub Zero, but it isn't. It's more on par with the GE, but it also has the two compressors. I do love the two freezer drawers on the SZ, but not enough to pay $5K more!

Tib - Just chiming in to say that my current home has a SZ fridge and we like it. I estimate it's about 15 years old, but don't know for sure since it came with the house. Haven't had any issues with it as long as we've been here. It has a substantial heft and solid feel to it. Does an excellent job of keeping veggies fresh and crisp. Has a convenient outlay that is easily adjusted. Although not a concern for you, the stainless exterior has held up very well, with only a couple of very small, unnoticeable scratches. Otherwise, it's just a regular fridge/freezer, haha. Definitely cannot say it's worth twice the price of some other high end units.

I had a 700 Series Subzero, which at the time was between 5-6000. I had about $1000+ in repairs over about seven years. I had one of the production periods with a bad batch of copper which developed pinholes, I had a compressor problem, I had a thermostat go bad

One of the parts was expensive, one of the parts cost about a dollar, the service calls were always expensive. But they were very prompt. One came close to dinner time on New Year's Eve.

I think the repair records are skewed for expensive appliances because people get them repaired, whereas if they have a $1500-2000 one they will often put it on the curb if it's more than a few years old. If it cost $6000 they will fix it. However, I personally am hesitant to put a Subzero in this kitchen.

Thanks AJ and Pal. My parents bought one of those first-generation SZ's (maybe second, I don't know ,but @ 20 years ago) and it has only needed one repair, and that was because they hadn't cleaned the compressor coils. Other than that, it has worked perfectly all these years. On the other hand, a client of mine had to replace her SZ after only a few years, maybe two or three, but she did so with another SZ.

Maybe SZ has gotten too big for its britches. $12K for a refrigerator is ridiculous, and for that price, repairs should be covered for the first eight years, IMO. It's not like people can pick up a refrigerator and drop it, or throw it across the room.

If I buy it via Yale Appliances, I can also get a 15% discount, so that's a nice thing, esp. since I'll need an integrated. (I don't like SS, plus my kitchen is tiny, so a 36" stainless would look ginormous in my kitchen, plus I rent my home out to travelers/families, mostly in the summer, and I'd be terrified that they'd scratch the SS).

Sorry, if I spend that much on a fridge or any appliance for that matter, I don't expect it ever to need any major repairs.

You should definitely look at Thermador. We just got the columns 8 months ago. Really like them. And really like that they were 2k less than SZ- each. I had a 36" SZ bottom freezer in my last home. Also nice. But these Thermadors have been great so far. Love they layout and lighting. Not sure what 4k more could have given me- my food is cold and fresh ;)

NSM, Massachusetts used to have a law called, I think, the "Implied Warranty" law, and it was basically that, one should expect a reasonable amount of use from a product relative to what they paid for it.

Naturally, they did away with it, and the timing of their doing away with it just happened to coincide with this new wave of manufacturers cutting back on reliability in favor of bling.

Correct, I am not considering another GE Monogram based on repairs. My parents just replaced their original SZ (1985) with a new one. I hope they are not disappointed.

I was considering Thermador until Rococogurl pointed out to me the interior. So I revisited a showroom and sure enough, the interior is not as nice as others. I was looking at the Freedom Towers since I was going to do one on either end of range wall. Also scratched it off the list since they do not come larger than 30" wide. The freezer tower has more cubic feet than our current GE Monogram, but the fridge tower is 2cu ft smaller.. um, no thanks.

Also look seriously at Miele. If we end up buying the house we want, it doesn't have room for a second fridge in another area/room. The kitchen has to house the one and only, so it has to be large enough.

Yes, I remember not being impressed by the interior of the Thermador. I will take another look, though. My absolute fave is the SZ with the two freezer drawers. I think it is just about a perfect refrigerator, design-wise. But the price..ugh. And the insecurity about potential unreliability and expensive repairs. too much of a downside for that price.

It does sound like you love that SZ :) I would try to make it work, I doubt you will find anything you like as much. We had our last SZ for 6+ years without issue- I think it's worth the gamble. But we also had a wolf duel fuel without chipping. Maybe we were lucky.

The Thermador and Miele interiors are pretty similar in my opinion. There wasn't anything that made the Miele much nicer for the price difference.

Wolf is SZ. SZ bought Wolf.

Well, I just hate loving something from someone I 'hate', in this case SZ. I mean, the price - numero uno. So arrogant. In addition, I rolled my eyes when I saw that SZ charges for the fridge...THEN a charge for the SS, THEN a charge for the handles...I think that's a really obnoxious way to sell a refrigerator. It's like a car dealer saying the price of the car is 15,000 and if you want wheels, it's another $2,000, and if you want a steering wheel, it's another 1500....

Just sell the darn thing at one price. Obviously SZ is doing this because they know the total for the entire fridge is ridiculous, so they're playing some psychological game with consumers.

Except that many people don't want the handles or stainless steel. The point for many is complete invisibility with panels and hardware that matches the other hardware. I don't want to pay for a large handles and stainless steel I am not using.

I thought that is what the integrated fridges are, panels and handles.

I had wood panels and handles from Doug Mockery on the fridge so it matches the cabinetry. I wanted it to disappear, not have a built-in that still looked like a fridge.

That is what I'm planning as well. Reasons stated above.

Refrigerators must be a personal thing! When I was looking (at sxs and columns), I really disliked the SZ..... the lighting, the drawers, almost everything. I did like the Thermador and I did like the Miele. My ideal was a Thermador fridge and a Miele freezer because of a combination of price and interior. In the end I decided on the Miele because I much preferred the freezer, the lighting and the door configuration of the Miele. It probably also helped that Miele offered a 10 year bumper to bumper warranty offer when I ordered. :)

SZ only had a 36" fridge with double freezer drawers when we were building. I was told they were coming out with it in 48" but we couldn't wait.

I want fully integrated next time, and will justify the cost.

I have a 30" Thermador and I really like the interior (especially the lights) except for one thing, and that is the shallow produce drawer. I would definitely get it in the 36" however, which has a deep drawer. I don't find the freezer small at all.

I have a negative impression of Liebherr, having read only pretty negative reviews.

Yes they had problems about five years ago but from everything I've read lately plus talking to several folks who have them now, they are very happy with the Liebherr. I am getting one for my new build. And the price is significantly less than a SZ

BTW: I was very impressed with the interior of the 36" Liebherr.

Since this has branched out to other brands, I'm going to start a new thread on this. Thanks for your input, everyone!

My 42" GE Monogram is 14 years old -- no problems. It's a French Door with ice/water in the door, but I don't know that is relevant. It's not 'integrated', just panels on the doors and the overhead coils. Integrated makes me nervous. What do you do when you need to replace the appliance? It's unlikely the new one will have the same measurements.

The appliance place my parents bought their new SZ and oven/microwave has a cabinet man that retrofitted for the new appliances. He did a great job.