40 y/o boiler that's been working fine. Baseboard hot water heating. Hot water is attached. The whole system would need to be replaced either way. The in-ground tank absolutely needs to go this year, and it's about putting a 330 tank in the basement. The price between a new oil boiler or a new gas boiler, well, I don't know. I'd need a contractor in either case. I so don't know what to do!

Keep your HW heating and switch to high eff nat gas boiler. Now is the time. No AC?

IMO

"Flyer from gas company with $500 sign-up bonus, $1,750 towards qualified new burner, free install from street to house..."

"...would probably sell within the next 10 years."

"40 y/o boiler "

"The in-ground tank absolutely needs to go this year"

Based on what you have stated so far, this seems to be an easy decision. Oil prices have come down, but I would think you are going to cut your heating costs 30-40%, possibly more if you get a stand alone hot water heater.

If you stay in the house 10 more years, than there is a high probability the current oil burner and/or boiler will need an expensive repair. You have to spend money getting a new oil tank which is an added cost you can avoid. You will cut down your annual maintenance cost and you will make your house more attractive when it comes time to sell.

You current boiler is probably over sized. A properly sized and efficient boiler is going to make you more comfortable and save money.

I suggest you add connections to the gas line so in the future you can add a gas clothes dry and gas stove and oven.

Go to gas. Be careful to get an appropriate boiler. First, it needs to be right-sized. Second, new boilers have no mass (not much water and not a huge mass of iron) compared to old ones. Put very simply, the degree of difficulty in matching a new boiler to an old system decreases if the house has lots of insulation and window upgrades so that radiation is now oversized. Degree of difficulty increases if there are lots of small zones. If these characteristics are not favorable, you might need to add a buffer tank or use a boiler like the HTP VersaPro or VersaHydro to add mass.

In addition to that, cast iron radiators work better at low water temps than aluminum fin convectors so they will work better with modulation of the heating water temperature adding efficiency.

Thanks. Water heater is a stand alone but is heated off the boiler and can easily be converted and it's relatively new. Our current oil-fired burner is not oversized and works well, despite it's age and it's been well maintained. Oh, and there are three zones with separate thermostats.

I know that the in-ground tank has to go and I've already got a quote of $4,000 sans any clean up (I know there won't be any) and that includes a 330 tank in the basement.

But in the near future, and should we decide to sell, I know the age of the furnace will be an issue (we're in our 60's now and have lived here for 35 years).

I want to get quotes and do price comparisons as to how much the gas conversion will REALLY cost me vs. just getting rid of the underground tank and leaving things alone.

And I really do covet a gas stove. :)

We do have central AC, but it's not connected to the heating system (after market)

So, how do I find a contractor to tell me what it's really going to cost to convert?

Looking forward to advice. :

Start looking for a HVAC contractor who does boiler installations. Do not call your friendly neighborhood plumber. HVAC contractors are plumbers, but most plumbers do not have HVAC expertise.

Get 2-3 quotes. You obviously want the best price, but you also want to learn how what each contractor proposes about equipment and installation. Take good notes and ask a lot of questions. October would be an ideal time to do it, because the HVAC business is slow and prices are a little better. It will also increase your chances of getting a good installation.

The good HVAC contractor will do a load calculation. I will bet the current boiler is over sized. Let's see what happens when you get the quotes.

Thanks Mike, that's what I want to do. But where do I find one? Too hard to even find a local plumber here! I'm not sure I want to trust something like Angies list. And I put in a call to the gas company's incentive line. I'll wait for them to call me back. The incentive expires at the end of October, so I've got to work fast.

Would it be a bad idea to call my current oil company (we have a service contract) and ask them to give me a quote on a new oil burner for comparison?

Oh, and I still have to use up the oil in the tank before it can be removed. If I stay with oil, the tank removal company will save up to 250 gallons. Anything else will be waste oil and I'll have to pay to have it dumped.

Nothing is ever easy, is it?

Are you happy with your current oil service and sales company? Do they also handle propane and propane boilers? If so, maybe you should consider them. They will also be well equipped to deal with your tanks.

I too will bet the current boiler is oversized. If your home has been upgraded with respect to insulation and sealing (windows included) since the current boiler was installed, it is surely oversized. Even if those upgrades were not made, it may be oversized. If your radiation is oversized as well, consider yourself lucky. Boilers need to be matched to the emitters (radiators, convectors or hydrofoils) and to the heat loss of the house. That coupled with the fact that modern boilers cool down between firing in contrast to yours that is probably always hot, makes replacement pretty complicated. Again, if your radiation is oversized, you will be lucky because a modulating/condensing boiler will heat the house with very low temperature water circulating which will lend higher efficiency. (Go to the link at the bottom of the first page for some detailed information if you are looking for a more complete understanding.)

http://www.cleanenergyresourceteams.org/blog/geeking-out-about-improving-condensing-boiler-efficiency-and-optimizing-performance

No way you should stay with oil with a new boiler with current fuel prices. Of course, we all wish we had a crystal ball. The hydronic installers are busiest when people fire up their heating systems and they fail (for people that don't maintain their equipment, especially). Second most busy is in the dead of winter. I don't understand the threshold for dumping vs. reusing oil. Maybe it is a state regulation. Consider if you can donate it to a church or something. Maybe a church or some other organization knows of families under financial stress that can use it.

A heat loss calc should be done, but even better if you can find someone that will do a calculation based on your fuel records. Get your fuel usage records for the past few years from your oil supplier (gallons and precise dates). Ask them what your "k factor" is or look for that stamp on your delivery ticket or bill. You will likely find someone on a boiler forum that will do that for you. They will need your approximate location to get degree day information. You may post your problem there as well. I respect the folks in this forum, but there are more boiler experts elsewhere.

Good boiler fora:

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/index.php (Boiler forum)

http://forum.heatinghelp.com (Hit the hydronic and boiler tags to study up.)

Oh, and the driveway, check into hydrotunneling underneath it unless you have a lot of large rocks in your soil. Gas stove? Have you tried induction? I am a booster, but I don't want a lot of waste heat and humidity pumping into the house in my climate. Get a plug-in hob to try it and you may become a believer.

When we purchased our house it had the original 1940 oil boiler, but they had already run a gas line for the stove and water heater. We replaced the boiler with a Buderus .85 efficiency GC124 boiler (without a standing pilot light) that was designed as a replacement unit, so it was supposed to be easier to match up the old water lines and get it all connected. Our oil tank was in the basement and they removed it as part of the contract.

We did not go with a higher efficiency unit because it did not seem to pay off with our temps, but a gas condensing boiler with an outdoor reset and other features may be worth it in Connecticut.

We are outside of DC and the cost for gas boiler heat has been very reasonable compared to what we heard they were paying for oil. I would highly recommend making the conversion.

Bruce

Re: stove and water heater. At my parents house, when they installed gas lines at the street you could get free hookup. You had to have at least one gas-fired appliance. They chose a dryer.

Update! Have had 4 contractors come out, they will give me quotes. And all of them said the current boiler was oversized! (Thank you). And two of the four quotes will include removal of the in-ground tank as a part of the new equipment and the zero percent financing. Three of the four recommended the same boiler which they said was preferred by the gas company. One recommended another. So, what do I do now?

This is great! Next step is to wait for the 4 quotes to come in. Read each one carefully and prepare your list of questions for each contractor. The quote needs all model numbers and all work that is to be done. If it does not then the quote is not complete and needs to be fixed.

Also pay attention to the boiler sizing. If the same boiler is quoted in different sizes then you know at least one contractor is quoting the wrong size. Ask the contractors how they determined the size.

Thanks Mike. Well, I'm excited. I do think this is the right thing to do at the right time. But as you can imagine, I'm nervous as well. I'll let you know and ask for help again as we go forward. :)

Dana,

You want to get this done in October before the first cold snap. This is the slow season when prices are a little better, and the crews are not working around the clock. Ask a lot of questions, take notes, and you should be fine. There are a lot of people here to offer help.

Get recomdations. I'v enever heard of a gas co making appliance recomendations. IN this day, that should be the one that burns more gas :-0

Update, the last contractor came to do the estimate today. He'll e-mail me his proposal in a few days. All of them basically said the same thing, and all of them are including the removal of the underground tank. And they're all about the same price, so it comes down to service, I guess. They are also in agreement that we should do this and now is the time. And it seems that a lot of people in this neighborhood are taking advantage of the great deal the gas company is offering. So we will sign a contract with someone. I'm gathering the information. Any advice?

Post the quotes...brand, model, size, and efficiency...

What are your heat loss figures, were they broken down by heating zone? Did your contractors measure the emitters (radiators) and calculate a heat output for each zone? Without this information, you can not hope to size a boiler correctly. The ratio of emitter capacity to heat loss for these areas will inform the decision between installing a modulating-condensing boiler (efficient) or a "bang-bang" boiler (less efficient).

OK, Burnham Alpine 150, from three of four 95 percent, one Weil-McLain GV90 @90 percent. One contractor suggested that those two might be too big, and he was the only one that suggested a heat loss evaluation and actually measured the current baseboards and looked at where the new vent would be placed. He spent a lot of time here. I just don't know, but I know I'll have to do something soon. Oh, and all these proposals include the removal of the in-ground tank.

ionized :) The problem is I'm a poor soul trying to do something I have no idea what I'm doing . Would you come over and help me! I'm kidding, of course! That's why I'm getting quotes from pros. But thank you for your concern and advice. :)

I apologize to you ionized, I was out of line,....yes, two of four measured the baseboards, but only one suggested a heat loss evaluation. I'm thinking the others want a contract first. I'm certainly learning and I thank all for your kind advice. May I ask for your continued input? Thanks

The four contractors may be quoting the same price, but are they offering similar equipment and services? The quotes should have enough detail so that you can make that determination.

The guy who is spending a lot of time measuring and willing to do a heat loss evaluation should be at the top of your list. Don't assume the other three will do things unless they specifically tell you.

What are you doing about hot water? You need to discuss this with the contractors. My suggestion is a stand alone hot water tank.

Hot water is not an issue. We have a MegaStor with a lifetime warranty installed in '04. All have said to keep it. Two of 4 are offering the same equipment, but one is going to quote based on the baseboard measurements and square footage. He thinks the Alpine 150 would be oversized and is going to give me a quote on that and another based on his findings. Oh, and this latest one is going to replace the 3/4 fittings on the MegaStore to 1" because it'll be more efficient. And he does iron pipes in the house rather than flex pipes. I've got to go make diner now! :)

I agree with what mike_home wrote. I am no pro, but I have been through the thought that a (50 yo) boiler replacement requires.

Here is a summary of the problem. You probably have a high-mass (lots of iron and lots of water inside) boiler that is hot all the time. It fires up to 180 and then cool off to 160 24/7/365. They vent out a chimney. 25% or more of your heat is going up the chimney. Modern, most efficient boilers fire up and then cool off until heat is needed again. They vent out a plastic pipe that runs out of the side of your house. Most likely your current chimney will need to be relined if you move to mid or high efficiency gas. That will be costly and it will be less expensive to go out the side with a high efficiency, or mid-efficiency condensing, boiler rather than reline and go with a mid efficiency.

Your current boiler probably puts out 180F water. To attain the highest efficiency, a modern boiler will be running much lower than that most of the time. Ideally, the water returning to the boiler will be below 130F meaning the supply will be 150 or less. Iif your house has had lots of window and insulation improvements while maintaining the size of the radiator system, you can probably attain that. If not, you can not take advantage of a condensing boiler without adding radiation. Please look up some information about condensing boilers. it is readily available on the web. Cast iron radiators work much better in this picture than aluminum fin because the latter's heat output falls off faster with water temperature than does iron. All is not lost if you have aluminum fin. Calculations need to be made.

Your rebate may require you to go with high efficiency. There are many boiler choices available. Highest efficiency is a modulating boiler, but you need to match it to your emitters. A modulating boiler usually has a 1/5 modulating range meaning that its minimum output is 1/5 or 20% of its maximum. That means that your heating system must be designed so your boiler can heat the whole house for the design temperature, while it can still throttle back to the output of the smallest zone.

For example, assume that you have a total heat output of 100,000 BTU matched to your heat loss. You have a 1/5 mod con boiler so its min output is 20,000. If your smallest zone's radiators are above 20,000 btu, you are fine, If your smallest zone's radiators are 10,000 btu, if that is the only zone calling for heat, your boiler turns on and off repeatedly (short cycling). That is not good for efficiency and not good for the boiler. You need to think about combining zones, adding radiation or including a buffer tank.

Ionized, so appropriate that you should mention high iron content in the water! We have a well and just replaced the pump and due to the high iron content will be fracking next week. Everything you say is true. And a modulating boiler is what's recommended. And we do have baseboards with aluminum fins.

We have three zones and what's been recommended that instead of three separate circulators that we do, oh gosh, what was that they said? I'm getting confused. Do you know what I mean?

I do know that my current oil boiler is operating at 78% and the only thing it does is on/off (yes, short cycle) and the new efficient gas boiler will adjust the water temp to heat more evenly in conjunction with the ambient temp outside. Am I getting this right?

At any rate, I know we have to do this (am I wrong?)

No, not iron in the water, cast iron heat exchanger in the boiler!

No one can honestly recommend a modulating boiler or a high efficiency condensing boiler without a complete analysis of the heat loss of the home and the output of the current radiators, zone by zone.. After that is in hand, some decisions can be made.

Ok, heat loss done, contractor selected. Gas company came out to talk, they'll be sending out their engineer to see where the line will go. Looking at 6-8 weeks depending on weather. But the good new is that we applied for the zero percent, and should hear back soon. Contractor says to wait until the end to pay, automatic rebates will be deducted from the down payment and other rebates will most probably pay for the permits. Looking at about $450 out of pocket total at the end of it all. Oh, and zero percent for 120 months, which will be about $98 per month on our electric bill. :)