Is there a Climbing Burgundy Iceberg? I'm aware of the traditional white climbing Iceberg but not of a climbing sport of the Burgundy variant.

In order for any rose to climb in any meaningful way, it has to be tip hardy in your climate so it doesn't start from scratch every year. That's where you begin. Give us a better idea of where you are, since hardiness is a function of climate as much as zone, and people who grow those roses can give hardiness information. I grow climbers that are tip hardy in at least zone 4, to sort of sidestep this whole question.

roseseek, Sorry, I keep forgetting that my 'Burgundy Iceberg' is not a climber.

mad_gallica, I am in borderline of Zone 5 and 6.

I've grown all but Roundelay of the ones you mention in my dry zone 5, and the only ones that will reliably climb at all are Amadeus (mostly cane hardy) and Night Owl. Stormy Weather will survive in a protected spot, but it usually dies to the ground and I grow it as a shrub rather than a climber. Mad Gallica is of course right that it takes surviving cane after the winter to have any hope of getting taller than 5-6' in a season, since that's how far my best growers will resprout if they die to the ground. Jasmina might climb a bit, but mine is a pretty reluctant bloomer regardless of how much cane it has.

Among the others you list, most will probably work as modest sized shrubs except in my experience Burgundy Iceberg. I've never been able to overwinter than one even in a protected spot. Falstaff is a bit finicky in my zone, and has sometimes failed to overwinter - I've never tried the climber and didn't know there was such a thing. Sometimes David Austin will call something a climber when it really isn't in most zones (certainly not in zone 5).

If you have a wider range of choices for climbers there are many that will grow and bloom well in zone 5, so these are just a fraction of the options out there.

Cynthia

I can barely get Falstaff to a decent size in zone 7, I don't think it would grow to climber height in zone 6.

I have two Roundelay cl. and neither of them seem to want to climb for me. Mine grow rather upright, like columnar yews, but I don't find them bendy enough to be good pillar roses.

Cynthia, Thank you very much for sharing the details of your experience. In my haste to start my first rose project this spring, I did not properly understand/research the 'climbing' characteristic of individual roses, and factor in the effects of Zone hardiness. I constructed a line of 5 6ft high posts with a simple horizontal piece running along the top of the line. My simplistic intention is to have five climbing roses going up each post and cover the top horizontal piece, and 4/5 non-climbing roses in between the post giving me an illusion of a 'rose wall'. I don't mind if the roses are tangling and fighting with each other. I fully expect that with the abusive Canadian winter, I will need to replace at least some of them each year. The contingency is, if the roses fail to climb or are too problematic to take care of, I will replace some or all with appropriate Clematis. The first 5 roses listed in my original post above were planted next to the post for climbing (the Burgundy Iceberg was a mistake). My current thinking is I will need to run horizontal wires (or equivalent that is not visually intrusive) so that I can tie the lazy climbers along them.

Buford_ne, Thanks for the info. It is a tentative selection for one of next year's projects. Now I can eliminate it from my list.

fduk-gw, Thanks for the input. My first year Roundelay does have long canes like you said. I have been trying to train it up the post. With your input, I will change my approach. My Roundelay is the only rose acquired this spring that did not bloom. Is it not a vigorous bloomer or does it need full sun?

It needs good sun levels AND some size I think. Mine took three years or so to really get going. That said, it can bloom on new wood, but I can't speak to how hardy it'll be for you, my zone is very different! The advice above from mad gallica and Cynthia is very good - I can't help but think that you might find that the project you've described is rather an exercise in frustration with the roses you've listed. Even if you're willing to replace on a regular basis, many roses won't bloom well without some size and age, so you could end up replacing every year and still not getting many flowers.

Hi Garcanad - thanks for explaining the parameters of your project. It's easier to visualize what you mean when you describe your structure, and also when you mention that you've already planted the first five roses you mention and are wondering how well they'll fit what you envision. First of all, as fduk says, it takes at least 3-4 years for any climber to reach a decent climbing size and start blooming, so if you need to replace any rose every year it won't meet your vision even as a small shrub sized rose. If you're going to replace a rose every year, choose something modest sized with a visual "pow" toward the front of that bed, better yet in pots so it's easy to replace (or bring inside to an insulated but cool place like an unheated garage so it has at least a chance of surviving the winter).

You have at least 3 roses that are likely to survive well enough to climb in your zone - Night Owl, Amadeus, and Jasmina. In my experience, only Night Owl is likely to have the profusion of bloom as a climber that you envision. What I'd do as a supplemental plan, since you mention wanting to shorten your learning curve, is to plant at least two GUARANTEED climbers at each end of the structure you mention so that they will frame the bed with climbing blooms, and let them grow toward the middle of your structure. The only caution is that you need to make sure that your structure is sturdy enough for this plan. Virtually all of the Canadian Explorers could easily pull over a single pole or series of free-standing poles in a good wind, but they are reliable climbers and bloomers in your zone. My recommendation would be Quadra for repeat bloom in the season, but he's a fair thug of a rose. A true thug like New Dawn would stretch across this within a few seasons, but I suspect it would eat your structure for lunch. Other guaranteed climbers would include Ramblin Red, Teasing Georgia (a yellow Austin), any of the Explorers, Felix LeClerc, Reine des Violettes, Rosarium Uetersen, Lunar Mist, Dixieland Linda, or Colette (I listed a range of colors for you to consider). The mini climber "Jeanne LaJoie" also gets quite large and blooms off and on all season.

This leaves you a lot more freedom for the middle plants to play around with what you like, and not expect them to climb necessarily. I'd definitely plan to grow clematis around the middle poles, since it sounds like the type of structure you have is more suited to clematis than roses with their big heavy canes. Unless your poles are sunk in concrete, if they're freestanding poles they may not last long with much weight of roses on them. In my zone, clematis does extremely well and is a nice "instant gratification" climber that blooms well within a year or so. That way you can get the climbing effect more easily and fill in the middle with a profusion of large shrubs and other roses. I'm firmly a fan of the kind of intermingled roses you describe, but even with shrubs it'll take a good 3 years before they reach their preferred size. Patience is a rose gardener's best friend.

Cynthia

fduk_gw, Kate, Cynthia, Thank you very much all for the thoughtful and helpful advice and suggestions.

fduk_gw, as a Canadian gardener and an ornamental plant (conifers, Japanese maples and Rhododendron etc.) addict, I have learned to accept that mother nature will erase some of my plants (even the most hardy kind every few years with a bad winter). I should clarify that replacing the dead roses I meant to say that replacing with perhaps a more hardy rose, or, if I really like that rose, try again with a different mean of winter protection. Frustration indeed! I still have to try before I move on.

Kate, until a couple of years ago, I kind of ignored the two climbing roses in my garden for years, and and pruned or tied their branches up when they were in my face. Since then, I have found a few utube videos that illustrated the basic principles of training them, but am still struggling to get the hang of it.

Cynthia, I need to explain that I started out placing a narrow selection restriction for that 'rose wall': repeat bloomer, either very dark purplish red or very pale pink, and fragrant. This wall is in a bed where I keep my pink perennials. Since I don't particularly like pink, I try to use these colours to tone it down. I have since relaxed the fragrant requirement. I should mention that the roses that were planted in between these posts are: 'Rhapsody in Blue', 'Wild Blue Yonder', 'Elegant' and 'William Shakespeare 2000'. They all repeated their blooms (some since May) except 'Roundelay'. So far I am reasonably satisfied with the colours except that 'Wild Blue Yonder' was mostly red (perhaps showed a hint of blue just before it fade), Jasmina is more pink than the pink red as shown in Palatine's catalog, but it did offer strong fragrant (I picked it over New Dawn because of the fragrant attribute. I should have picked New Dawn for better colour), 'William Shakespeare 2000' colour was not as dark as I like. The posts that I used were 2x4 pressure treated wood and set in 3' deep concrete. The advise you provided on the relative support strength requirements are very useful. I have based my estimation based on the climbing Iceberg I have.

All the suggestions on the climbers are very useful for my future projects and replacement considerations. I do currently have a tentative selection list for next spring's projects. Can you comment on their pros and cons:

Barkarole

Dark Desire

Lavender Lassie

Monte Carlo Country Club

A Shropshire Lad

Black Lady

Crimson Cascade

Paul's Himalayan Musk

Swan Lake

White Licorice

Thanks

Hi Garcanad - sounds like you've done your homework before this project started, and your supports are indeed sturdy and sunk in concrete. I'm presuming that most of the new consideration roses are for the shorter shrubs, since only a few of these climb. I haven't grown all of these (yet), but all but one or two at least have been in my yard at one point or another.
Bad news first - there's not much chance that Paul's Himalayan Musk or Swan Lake will survive in your zone, and I've had terribly bad luck with Black Lady even in a protected spot. I can grow a lot of hybrid musks without problem in my zone 5, but PHM has not been very forgiving. Swan Lake on two or three tries hasn't survived the winters. A better white climber would be White Cap or White Dawn, though neither is very prolific for me.

The only other possible climbers on your list (I don't know Crimson Cascade) would be A Shropshire lad and Lavender Lassie. Lavender Lassie has survived well in a rotten spot in the yard, but it's part shade so it doesn't bloom much. It's not cane hardy in my winters, so it only regrows to about 5-6' for me, so keep that in mind. Since you mention not liking pink, mine is mostly a vaguely orchid pink, mostly looking pink to my eyes. A Shropshire Lad also tends toward the pink side, or apricot pink, and I've only just gotten one to survive this year. No info about whether it's cane hardy, but it has a good odds for being so as most of the Austins are hardy more or less for me. It doesn't have a great reputation as a rebloomer. A more reliably peach colored Austin that gets about as tall for me is Carding Mill (topping out at about 6' most years).

Beyond that, I expect your hardiest and most reliable shrubbier rose will be Dark Desire. Since it's new this year, I can't speak from experience, but it's a Kordes rose and reputed to be nicely hardy. I really like the dark coloring of this one. Barkarole is a nice dark red, but I only got mine to survive by planting it in the zone 6 pocket of my yard. Kardinal Kolorscape or Archbishop Desmond Tutu are both hardier dark reds in a similar color scheme. BTW, AC Navy Lady is supposed to be about 2-3' high but it's putting out massive long floppy canes sideways and looks to want to climb - this is one of my darkest reds in my yard. White Licorice is also a bit tender for me and didn't survive a normal zone 5 winter. I do have one replanted in a more protected spot this year. Better and hardier white shrubs are Polarstern, Bolero, Snowdrift, or Paloma Blanca. Monte Carlo Country Club is new to me for next year and will get a protected spot (and I anticipate it will need it). I've had poor hardiness responses from the Adam roses.

Hope that helps - your results may differ, so don't take any of this as a given, and experimenting is always part of the fun.

Cynthia

Cynthia, Thank you very much for sharing so much of your experience, and effort to write them out. All the info you provided are useful to me.

I checked out all the suggestions you made in the last post. I can only source some of them in Canada. I would definitely want a 'Quadra'. Some of the Explore rose are noted as 'occasional repeater; not encouraging.

It is too bad that many in my tentative list are not reliably hardy. I based these selection on Hortico's and Palatine's info. I live a short distance away from Hortico. Its catalog lists Paul's Himalayan Musk as Zone 4 and Swan Lake as zone 5. I may try them once since the spots for them are well protected. The two white alternatives you suggested are not available here. AC Navy Lady was dropped from my list when I realized that I have too many red on it. With your comment, I will add it to my list again (the curse of 'I want it'). Most of the white shrub alternatives are not available here. I choose White Licorice partly because it is described as 'continuous bloomer and very fragrant'. For roses, I think I start to forgive the very pale pink roses for being pink since I need them for contrast. I was intrigued/inspired by a picture showing a pillar with a combination of light mauve climbing rose and dark purple clematis. For next year's projects, I am thinking of experimenting with a group of three pillars red/pale pink-peach combination and 2 pillars of pale mauve/dark purple combination. The possible combinations for the 3 pillars are: Rosa Night Owl with Clematis Violet Elizabeth, Rosa A Shrophire Lad with Clematis Kermesina, Rosa Crimson Cascade with Clematis purpurea plena elegans. Possible combinations for 2 pillars are: Rosa Lavender Lassie with Clematis Romantika, Rosa Stormy Weather (can't get 'Purple Splash' here) with Clematis Veronica's Choice. White Licorice, Barkarole and Dark Desire are supposed to join a group (Twilight Zone, Munstead Wood, and Windermere) I planted this year. I have a feeling that they may be too red and not dark enough to join.