You can and should use Monterey Insect Control. Bullseye is yet another brand of spinosad. All brands of spinosad are essentially the same except for price and mixing instructions, which vary according to the concentration of active ingredient in a particular package. The word "spinosad" is a universal generic name for a particular chemical compound. Ditto for "imidicloprid." Always check the "active ingredients" where the generic name will always appear in fine print, along with the concentration.

Thank you Michaelg. But could you also expand on mixing instructions for a newbie. I understand when they talk about how many teaspoon/Tablespoon per water extra, but on some of the imidicloprid is to go on the foliage and some as a drench. Are they not changeable. Is it other ingredients that make the product what they are? I was at box store and they did not have the spray kind of Bayer and the person in the department tried to talk me into the drench and told me dilute it more. I did not do this, but it got me to wondering as I started the quest on trying to learn about the products more before going to the store and making a purchase or spraying on a whim without knowing more about the products I am using.

Imidacloprid sold as a spray concentrate will have different inert ingredients (such as a spreader-sticker) compared to the soil drench product. There is a widely sold Bayer insecticide spray concentrate that combines imidacloprid and cyfluthrin. Don't apply this to open flowers.

Spinosad should be your basic weapon, but using imidacloprid or some other recommended control every third application would help prevent the development of resistance. Spinosad is best for safety and environmental reasons.

Good for you in trying to learn more about the chemicals you may be using.

From what I've read, having no experience with the particular pest, imidacloprid soil drench is recommended rather than foliar spray for chilli thrips control (I'm referring to roses and other plants not destined for human consumption).

PS Sharon you can usually use the sprayable products for soil drench but not vice versa. For imidacloprid the usual rule of thumb is to double the concentration when using a spray as a drench. It gets expensive though, drench products tend to be cheaper for the same quantity of active ingredient. One method of applying imidacloprid which is not mentioned often is to 'paint' a 3 inch ring of imidacloprid concentrate (17%) undiluted on the bark. It should (I'm just guessing here) work on roses as long as it is applied on not too old a cane. I'm using this method on young citrus which do not yet bear fruit to protect from the leaf miner. It lasts longer than spraying and is less expensive, laborious and hit or miss for the amateur than soil drenching. It also does not affect soil living insects as much as drenching.

Whenever one is considering using a chemical as a soil drench, I recommend looking at how long the chemical will remain in the soil and whether its presence will have effects on beneficial soil organisms and later down the line on human health (see last link, below). I would think that South Florida would be an especially venerable area for drinking water contamination.

---------------------------------------------------------------

This link is to a M.S. Thesis concerning earthworms and imidacloprid.

https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/69615/3/Dani_Vivek_D_201506_MSc_thesis.pdf

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding human health:

"The PPR Panel found that acetamiprid and imidacloprid may adversely affect the development of neurons and brain structures associated with functions such as learning and memory. It concluded that some current guidance levels for acceptable exposure to acetamiprid and imidacloprid may not be protective enough to safeguard against developmental neurotoxicity and should be reduced. "

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/131217

The counter indication of spraying neonicotinoids for thrip control is the adverse effect they can have to beneficials (thrip eaters). As long as an insect is not consuming part of the plant it should be safer with drenching. Of course the reverse is applicable with regards to soil living critters.

As mentioned in another thread, spinetoram sounds promising as a more effective alternative to spinosad for thrip control but seems to be currently available only in large quantities (quarts) and is expensive.

Something that has not been mentioned for a while is rotating insecticides. Any one insecticide if used repeatedly will cause resistance to build quickly. The fellows above would be much better than I at explaining. Three insecticides with different ( don't know say this) modes of action (maybe). This is very important if you wish to be able to continue to get a good knock down in subsequent years.

naturalis-l is a pesticide that is said to work with less bad effects.

http://ipm.uconn.edu/documents/raw2/Using%20Beauveria%20Bassiana%20for%20Insect%20Management/Using%20Beauveria%20Bassiana%20for%20Insect%2 0Management.php?aid=5

Roses forum pesticide.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1657086/naturalis-l

Biocontrol called beauvaria. It is made for thrips from a soil fungus in nature.

Sharon,

I've just ordered Southern Ag Conserve Naturalyte Insect Control for DoYourOwnPestControl.com since I have the thrips also here in Altamonte Springs. Some of the roses have been decimated by this pest. This product was the same price on Amazon, but comes with free shipping. It is a pint size and makes 8 gallons of spray. I'm trying this first before more nuclear options as I garden in containers.

On a side note, some of my roses are unaffected. Souvenir de la Malmaison, and Chrysler Imperial seem immune. Mr. Lincoln, Pope John Paul II and Austin's Charlotte have been really hit hard.

Do check this website as them seem to be competitive and I love free shipping.

Jack

Conserve Naturalyte

Good for you, Sharon, for attempting to educate yourself about garden chemicals. You will find a very large difference in pricing between brands for the same products. Greenlight used to be the most cost effective brand of Spinosad here in California, until they were bought by Ortho, I believe, then disappeared. Spinosad is Spinosad, with the main differences between brands whether it is made in a method able to be labeled with the OMRI (Organic Materials Research Institute) designation or not. There are various methods of producing the bacteria. Some are organic, some aren't. Unless you are a certified Organic Farmer, it likely doesn't make a difference which you use. To retain your organic certification, you must use Spinosad manufactured "organically".

There are smaller, boutique, manufacturers who have higher costs, and/or mark ups and will have higher prices for the same product. Generally, the larger the size container, the lower the cost per ounce. Not always, but frequently. Brand and size can make great differences in price. When I lived in Los Angeles County, I could buy it in 32 oz. concentrate bottles for about $1 per ounce. Here in Santa Barbara County, I find it mostly in 8 oz bottles for $2 an ounce or 16 oz bottles for more than $1.50 an ounce. But, the product inside should work identically, no matter what size the container nor how pretty the label.

You'll find the same thing with the inorganic pesticides. Ortho has long made two ready to use products sold in one gallon containers. Bug B Gone and Flea B Gone had identical ingredients in identical concentrations. They were packaged in identical containers with identical squeeze sprayers. The labels were the same colors. The product names were different as were the emphasis on which insects they targeted. Bug B Gone could sell for almost half the price of Flea B Gone. The difference? Many people feel much more violently against fleas than they do ants, spiders, roaches, etc, so they are more willing to pay a higher price for the same product with a label emphasizing fleas.

You basically just look at the active ingredients and their concentrations. As has been suggested, perhaps you don't want to use a soil drench packaged product as a spray, but otherwise, that ingredient is that ingredient. You can often also find the same ingredient in varying concentrations targeting different insects. After Chlordane was removed from the market, its replacement (whose name isn't coming to mind right now) was sold in many different concentrations. The termite version was 45% active ingredient where the general purpose concentration was half that. The termite labeling was more expensive, but when you figured it would make twice as many gallons of the general purpose concentration, it was the better value. If the label says to use one ounce of 20% concentrate per gallon of water, just use half an ounce of 40% concentration per gallon to make the same ratio. But, as with medications, if the recommended application rate is an ounce per gallon, don't skimp and use less per gallon. That is more likely to only make the bug ill and help them develop resistance faster. The recommended concentration is the lowest "kill rate" and that's the one we have to be sure to use or we're making matters worse.

Why do you feel ignored Sam?

Thanks to everyone. I feel better informed. Sorry I did not get back to you sooner. I broke a tooth and had to go to the dentist..... ouch. Thanks again.

Kublakan,

Thanks for the information. I battled blackspot last year to no avail and this year conquered it for the most part. Seems all it took was a weekly foliar feeding of Sea Kelp and Fish Emulsion. I should have suspected some other problem to arise! At first, I did not know what was causing the stunted growth, and after reading and researching Chilli Thrips when someone posted that they were positively identified in California, I realized that they were the cause of the blighted appearance of my roses. I'm hoping the Conserve will do the thing by putting an end to them. Again, thanks for sharing the product of your experience with this pest. May I ask where in Florida are you?

Jack

Hi Jack,

I'm glad to be of help. I'm located in Miramar Florida.

I bought a bottle of conserve two years ago and haven't even used a quarter of it yet. I spray at the very first signs of damage (once you've battled it a few years running, you spot it easily), and that knocks the buggers down before they have a population explosion and the situation gets out of hand. I usually only have to spray twice a year.

The amount of Espinosa is much higher in conserve than other brands, hence the price.

Brittie, how many roses do you have? Do you only spray after a breakout, or do you use it as a prevention as well?

Espinosa sounds so much cuter than spinosad, Brittie... I love it!

Chili thrips has been the diagnosis for roses here in Hawaii. If buying roses from the big box stores, which are usually supplied by local nurseries who get bare roots from the mainland, one must make sure to isolate their purchased rose and get rid of whatever problems it has (usually chili thrips and spider mites) before introducing to one's garden. Unfortunately our choices on the islands is limited if on a budget.

Monterey has a smaller concentration of spinosad and is more readily available and affordable than the more expensive Conserve. I had mixed results with Monterey because I was following a regime of what i now consider chemical overload (imidacloprid, insecticidal soap, fungicide). Eventually split cost of the Conserve but have only resorted to using it once. I am half convinced though that using it plus the severe hot, humid sun and sporadic rain had caused damage to my generally healthy leaves.

These past several months, since Feb or March actually, I've resisted spraying insecticide or fungicide at the first sign of trouble to let them get back to their natural state of defense.

For me a steady schedule of chemical warfare doesn't make sense anymore so am glad I am off that cycle. If I get severely infested with chili thrips, I'll cut off the infected sections and use the lower concentration Monterey first. I prefer a foliar spray application because the damage is generally on the new growth and buds.

I'm not sure that using a lower concentration than recommended, of any active ingredient, is a proper method. It certainly goes against the principles of resistance build up avoidance. Since I'm not in the US I don't have first hand experience of the spinosad brands mentioned here (Conserve, Monterey) but I would expect that for any particular pest and application, the recommended dilution for each should result in the same concentration of active ingredient (spinosad in this case) in the final spray mix. This is what matters, not the concentration of active ingredient in the product to be diluted before spraying. I would be surpised if the recommended dilution rates for each product do not result in similar concentration of active ingredient in the final mix.

I'm with Nik on this one. I would not mess with dosage levels for fear of breeding a super bug that becomes resistant to the chemical. I would spray less often though.

Right. Always use the labelled amount per gallon.

Hi Sharon,

I have used the Montery spray with good results. I would try that before doing anything else. They sell it on Amazon and the small bottle is good for maybe 4 doses, depending on how large your garden is.

I would then use the Bayer granules to help prevent a re-infestation. I don't think it lists chili thrips on the list of insects, but Geoff from Cool Roses recommends it as a means to control them, maybe not eliminate them all together, but it keeps them from forming a major infestation.

I have used it with good results, maybe an 80% reduction, not %100, but a number I can definitely live with.

Also, has anyone use the thrip pheromone lures with any success? I read about these on amazon and I think they are a good idea, but they are a bit pricey ($20 for a few strips) and I'm not sure they'll work on Chili Thrips, but it seems like a good idea. I'd like to give it a try soon.

Lol, I didn't notice the autocorrect fail in my post. Espinosa? Geez.

I have around 200 roses, and only use conserve after I spy early damage. I use the amount directed on the bottle.