My kids do, mostly my teenage daughter, but never my husband. My boys tend to shake their heads rather than roll their eyes. Disrespect is something I don't tolerate so,those reactions make me crazy. Typical teen behavior (the eye rolling and what not) but immature for an adult to behave that way, if not done in jest. It sounds like you've addressed it though and it wasn't taken seriously. :(

One of those Yes to both things. Families do it and it is disrespectful. I think it's also so automatic that it's a behavior that is hard to change.

Why not tell your daughter straight out that it is rude, a sign of contempt and disrespect, and that you don't want her doing it to anyone, not just yourself, you don't want anyone doing it to her, rather than that her eyes will loosen up and fall out.

DH will be harder to recondition, I suspect. Likely does it to everyone, not just you. But it is demeaning.

My husband is a saint and dear. Frustratingly, he never misbehaves. I do. I have a temper, and I use sarcasm when I am angry. And I am an eye-roller from way back. So this is a tale from the other side.

Anyway, I am trying to reform these habits because I came across something in an article about parenting that said sarcasm should be verboten, or any behavior that is belittling to the other (they used eye rolling as an example). When I read it, it was like being hit by a 2x4. I thought I was softening anger with humor, but it's really not. I agree it's not good and I would tell both of them that.

Kudos to Mtn. for honest introspection. A rare thing.

Love this!

I don't mind telling you all that DH and I have been involved in counseling because we want to grow closer to one another and we want our marriage to glorify God. I have learned - and am learning - countless ways that I have, over the years, settled into habits of communication that may seem to most people like normal human reactions, but they are in reality very destructive. Eye-rolling, sighing, interrupting, snark, belittling -- it all amounts to disrespect and disrespect kills intimacy. I am so sorry that your family is treating you this way, Anele. I know from what I've learned about the ways I've mistreated my DH that these seemingly "small" reactions from people you love cause you to feel devalued and disconnected.

That your husband is modeling this behavior for your children is of concern. They will surely carry this behavior into their own marriages and parenting. Are you able to talk with him openly and honestly about this? It's not too late to change - I promise you that. But you all have to communicate openly and freely about why this ugly body language is so hurtful and damaging. As a wife and mother, you have the rightful expectation of being treated with honor, and I think you can make that clear in a firm but loving way. Your family is in the wrong, but that's not an excuse for you to lash back at them -- confrontation must be done in a loving, respectful manner.

I wish you all the very best. As an eye-roller and sigher from WAY back (I probably first started acting that way as a tween, if not earlier), it makes me sad to realize that I have treated the people I love the most in the worst ways at times. But change is possible, and I hope and pray that change comes to your home. (((((Hugs)))))

Apparently I screw up my face when I don't like something and I'm completely unaware that I'm doing it....one reason I never play poker. I think it comes from, as a child, when you'd verbally express your displeasure, you'd get reprimanded for it. So you learned ways of expressing yourself without making any sound.

anele, your post has a serious tone, but in a way, yes-ha! When confronted with yet another ditherish rant about paint color, DD#1 told me to "stop listening to those decorating people!" She means you guys! But not in a disrespectful way, more in a amused, exasperated way.

I used to do what my kids called "the rolley-eye thing" without even realizing it. Apparently I did it when they did or said something really stupid (in my opinion) that kids can sometimes do. I do try to curb it.

When my kids are disrespectful to me I have no problem calling them on it. Call your daughter on it - she needs to know it's wrong.

When my kids are rude or disrespectful to their father I call them on it as well.

I do agree about calling your daughter on it. But if you are having an important discussion, don't abandon the original discussion in favor of reprimanding the eye rolling. Note it and move on. My lovely teen daughter will try to get out of an uncomfortable discussion by pushing unrelated buttons. Then the discussion of the moment evolves into an eye rolling, eye contact, whatever, discussion and the original issue gets lost in the shuffle.

Auntjen is so very right about this -- these small expressions of disrespect are huge intimacy killers. They may seem little and no big deal, but they add up in a big, nasty way. Don't normalize them by tolerating them or using them yourself. My mother parented with much eye-rolling, snark, and humiliation. Ask me how close I have been to my mother since I left home 40 years ago.

Nor do you want your daughter going out into the world thinking that it's normal for a guy to eye roll at her. His behavior will go downhill from there after the courting period is over. It took me a few boyfriends to figure this out. Thank goodness I wised up and married a nice guy.

I have three sons, all with a quick wit. They really know where to stick the needle, but it's done more for teasing fun (can't resist the good joke). Thanks to my mom's example of what not to do, I raised them with a heap of courtesy, respect, and verbal gentleness. And they were decent enough to reciprocate. There were times during their teens when we clashed hard and the f-bombs flew. But that didn't happen often, and I made sure to return to reasonable discussion after a cool down period with apologies for losing my cool and reassurances of my love for them. They responded in kind, too. Kids have super, super sensitive radar -- they generally won't bite the hand that feeds them the respect & love they so desperately want. You can probably talk to your daughter in a gentle, honest, mentoring way to open her eyes about her behavior. She might even like the heart-to-heart with you, as you seem to be a wise, understanding kind of mom.

We can't expect life to be ideal and most of us encounter unprovoked dismissive behavior from time to time - an abrupt waiter, the salesperson who reacts like your question is an annoyance, etc. But I don't think anyone deserves being on the receiving end of disrespect in their own home, and especially not from their children. Your home should be your "soft place to land".

I don't know the dynamics of your relationship with your DH and I wouldn't counsel you on that. My sister & her husband tend to spar back & forth all the time. It's always been their way and neither seems to take the snipes and criticisms to heart. I wouldn't be comfortable with it, but if they're happy...

However, as far as your daughter's behavior - I would try to nip that. You have some challenging years ahead getting through the teens and it's a slippery slope when you begin to allow outward shows of disrespect at thirteen.

'Your home should be your "soft place to land".'

I love that idea.

Dh is not an eye-roller. My daughter can get a certain tone at times that indicates obviously I do not know what I am talking about (she is 14) or her exasperation but it is not too, bad. Once in a while my 17 year old son with let a sigh and that is it. I sometimes try to have discussions regarding how we all have different perspectives and while we can find other's perspectives frustrating, we have to respect the fact that they see things in a different way.

In that specific situation above, I think I might have asked if they could express to me the way the ceiling looks to them now with something more succint than "it's fine." Also, just because I can rather be a PITA, I would be tempted to bring in various samples of white to aid in visualizing why I found the current color to be off, because I like to beat a dead horse. I have found that sometimes this nips things in the bud because they would rather hold the sighs, etc, than listen to the explanation.

Eye rolling is a huge sign of disrespect. My husband barks at me in a grumpy way when he's tired or doesn't feel well and to be honest, I understand, with some of the medications he's on, he's just going to have his days, BUT he does not roll his eyes at me nor do I at him.

On the other hand, my adult daughter does and when it happens I'm truly offended. Rather than fight with her about it, I tend to go silent on her until she asks what's wrong and that's when we have a conversation. You know the old, "just because she's an adult doesn't mean I'm no longer her Mother" and the "I deserve the respect I've earned" talk. I'm pretty old fashioned that way.

In regards to your husband, seriously? Shame on him! Obviously you need to have a chat and let him know what he is doing is not only very hurtful to you, but it's also a bad example to set for your children. In regards to your daughter, she needs to be set straight by you and your husband together. She needs to know that it was wrong for your husband to do it, it is wrong for her to do it and it needs to stop now.

So sorry Anele, I can tell by your posts, your home and family are your world and immensely important to you so I know this must be very hurtful. Your post reminds me of that saying, "When Mama ain't happy, no body's happy" I have no doubt you can straighten them out!

Teasing is absolutely fine, as long as you never tease about anything that the person is unhappy about. In other words, teasing someone about their faults or shortcoming is passive-aggressive meanness. Teasing them about, loving shoes, or always winning a certain game, or liking a funny food combination, is fine, and actually a good thing.

I find teasing to be a peculiar thing. I understand what Mtn is referring to and I think that's sort of a good-natured verbal sparring that both parties engage in together. It's not something that in any way puts the other person down. It might focus on an idiosyncrasy but it's always one that the teased person is not sensitive about.

I know a couple of people who tease in a very passive-aggressive manner. They deliver their words with a BIG smile on their face (almost always focusing on differences of political ideology), but beneath that jovial exterior is disdain and strong resentment. If you dare point out to them the hurtfulness of their behavior, all of a sudden YOU are the one with the major "problem" because "you can't take a joke." I find that underhanded ugliness reprehensible.

IDK, mtn......even the most good natured teasing implies there is something about the person that makes him or her the object of a joke of some kind. If there weren't an implication that loving shoes is wrong, what would be funny about it? Or rather, what would make it worthy of comment? If always winning a game is good, the person should be praised and complimented, not teased. I have seen a lot of teasing between children and adults teasing children and IMO it is less benign than people realize.

For me, at least, there is a "right" way to be teased- about the right things by the right people- I take it as more of a compliment than being complimented. I find friendly banter fun, and there isn't always something awful behind it. When there is something awful behind it I feel differently. But I know some people don't like being teased for any reason, ever, and I try to respect that.

I think it's a good idea to discuss this first with your husband and explain how it makes you feel. I do hope that he sees that his behavior is dismissive and agrees to be more aware of his actions. Then you can enlist his help when you discuss it with your daughter. As long as your husband continues with this action it's going to be really difficult to change your daughter's behavior.

My brother has always been a tease, usually it's funny and light hearted and he includes himself in the joke. However his teenaged daughter picked up on it and unfortunately her 'humor' has an edge to it. Whenever we've gotten together for family dinners she'll invariably make a few sarcastic comments that are hurtful. I think my brother and SIL are so accustomed to her behavior that they ignore it. As a result my kids aren't thrilled to spend time with her which I find very sad since they're the only family we have nearby.

I know this is a sensitive matter and your feelings have been hurt. Just remember that you deserve better.

My sons were good at using teasing to defuse anger or reduce clash or just to poke in the ribs to get a point across. Not a bad skill to have, actually. Better than snark or eyerolling.

I was curious, so I looked it up. There is actually a term for it. It's called "prosocial teasing". Prosocial teasing facilitates bonding, probably much like "inside" humor does.

I actually roll my eyes but I don't really have contempt or disrespect for some of the people or situations on the receiving end. However, I don't often do it where they can see it.

It's a bad habit I know, but when I am frustrated I think it is preferable to sighing or saying something snarky, because at least it's silent. It's a physical release valve, in a way.

I work part of the time in an environment that could be considered pretty toxic, and there are some people for whom I have little respect and some people for whom I have contempt. I don't roll my eyes at them. I don't engage them at all if possible, and when engaged I am extremely polite but fully detached. They would never get an eye roll; they rarely get eye contact.

Since I brought up teasing -- there are 2 kinds. My DH has a great sense of humor and will tease but always affectionately. There's mean teasing which is a completely different thing. I don't like mean and don't ever put up with it.

But if someone rolled their eyes at me I would take that as dismissive or a put down -- an indication the person thought I was stupid or being ridiculous. And I'd call them on it, so they know it's not ok, by asking them point blank why they were doing it. If they don't like that, or don't react well to that then they shouldn't go there.

For many people, it's a struggle to overcome fears of stating what we want, how we want to be treated, or what we don't like. But once you're on the other side of that, you're a much happier person IME. Hardest with family to be sure. Big hug to you ((((anele)))).

Interesting article in the NYT a few years ago:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/parenting/2012/06/06/when-teasing-is-loving-and-when-its-not/?referrer=

Demonstrating how recipients often feel differently about teasing than the teasers realize or believe. Good teasing.....bad teasing.....to me, not separate entities but perhaps more like points on a continuum, sometimes uncomfortably (and unknowingly) close.

To pick up on something that what was said about points on a continuum, I do think that all teasing has a certain amount of maliciousness in it, the amount of it is a point on a continuum. It has intended malice in it and the victim of the comment will feel it. Unfortunately the two points of malice, that of the sayer and that of the receiver are unlikely to be the same and frustration or hurt feelings will ensue.

It could even be that the person who is doing the teasing may have a higher level of malice intended than what was perceived. For me, teasing shows an imbalance of respect in the relationship.

Anele, I do hope all this isn't upsetting you more than you already were. <3

Well, I still disagree about teasing always being malicious. You know when people mean to sting and when they are being merely playful. (Same with eyerolling.) Sometimes teasing is just playful, and yes, it is bonding. My family likes to tease me about the time I made salmon puffs for dinner. They were dreadful. Over the years, "salmon puffs" has become a punch line that makes us all laugh, especially me. It's our joke, for us only, & not the least bit malicious. We can gently poke fun at our foibles. The day my family stops teasing me to get me to laugh is when I'll know I've become irrelevant to their lives.

I did not expect so many comments! Thank you all so much. You've given me a lot to think about. And Justgotabme, no-- they are not upsetting me more at all-- you are so sweet to be concerned.

This behavior has been going on for years. I am not sure if it happened before we were married, but certainly by the time our 2nd daughter was born I started to pinpoint it more. I am a slow learner! We got a book by John Gottman when we had marriage counseling done before we were married via the church. Everything I needed to know was in there-- I should have actually read it before I said, "I do." We didn't even get along during marriage counseling-- I pointed that out to my my now DH at the time. But, deep down inside, I believed I was to blame, so I continued on.

We went to marriage counseling when I figured out this wasn't just about me, but nothing really changed.

It is interesting that some of you mentioned you also roll your eyes-- thank you for your honesty. I have been thinking that about myself, wondering how many times I also roll my eyes or show other behavior/mannerisms that are disrespectful, and that isn't even counting things I actually say! So, my first step is to make sure I am following the golden rule, and treating my DH and everyone else the way I want to be treated, no exceptions, even on bad days.

Regarding teasing, yes-- I know it can sometimes work. For example, Awm03 mentioned her salmon puffs. I think if there are plenty, plenty, PLENTY of deposits in the areas appreciation/compliments/respect/etc. then it's OK. Then it can genuinely be funny. As in-- "remember that one time?" (In other words, we normally love your cooking but that was an exception!) vs. "Oh, no, don't try to cook anything new again-- you are NOT a good cook, hahaha, just kidding!"

My husband, I feel, does not respect me or even like much about me. I can make most of my friends laugh-- heck, I can even make my 13 y.o.'s friends laugh-- but I have observed my DH intentionally STIFLE his laughter around me most of the time. I can't really think of anything he thinks I am good at. Generally, he thinks he can do x better than I, or if he can't-- well, whatever I am interested in doesn't really matter. (Hence, the eye rolling when I talk about color.) I like to tell him that it's good for individuals in families to have areas of expertise. Or, I used to, but now I have given up. He doesn't come out and tell me I'm not good at things-- it is more "asking" questions like, "Are you sure you will be able to handle x?" or "How are you handle x?" More along the lines of instilling self-doubt. When I point this out, he makes comments like, "I forgot-- no one can ask you anything."

RE: my daughter's eye rolling-- it happened long before she was a teen! She started early, and I've addressed it (without success) for years, but it isn't much of a surprise given how often my husband does it. We have a very good relationship overall, however, so I have more hope that she will change.

Anyway, I am glad I wrote about this because I just needed a reminder from all of you that it is generally not or should not be normal behavior among adults who care about each other. So, this weekend, when my husband has said or done things that are disrespectful, I tell him (with few words) that I found it disrespectful and leave the room. I don't know if leaving the room is a good thing, but it mentally helps me know I can get away AND then I don't have to sit and listen to him get defensive. So far, once he apologized, and once he let it go.

Thank you all again.

Anele, you seem to be a wonderfully talented woman and a truly dedicated mother. I definitely see some of my story in what you related above with your spouse. I am sorry you have that burden to bear. All I can offer you are virtual hugs and a sincere hope of future peace.

Oh Anele! I'm so sorry. I'm glad you posted and are doing something about it. His one apology is a good sign. Don't let him get away with treating you that way, and I'm proud of you for also looking at yourself. It's so easy when someone treats us badly to think it's all them.
My hubby and I only knew each other 3 moths and 8 days when we married. Before we did he made me a promise and asked me to do the same to him, that we always, always tell each other when something is bothering us about the other. Or anything for that matter. He said we can't be there for each other if we don't know somethings wrong. Men and women think differently. We actually even speak and hear differently so it's important to communicate to each other all the time.
We've been married over 35 years now and are still very very close to each other.
So your starting to communicate your feelings to your hubby is a very good thing. Praying he responds in kind.

anele_gw, I would not give up on counseling. Try again. Try different counselors etc. Sometimes people won't change because why should they? For example, If he thinks you will never leave him, why should he change? Unfortunately some people think like that. Recently heard a rock star give the secret to his 30+ year marriage. They treat each other like they are dating. Constantly courting each other. Never taking each other for granted.

Don't expect yourself to be perfect before expecting respect from your husband. Nobody's perfect so please don't box yourself in a corner saying you can't criticize his behavior because yours isn't perfect. This is what victims of abuse say.

Respect has to be earned but I say also expected. You should expect respect from your family if you are treating them fairly (not perfectly). When people act like a doormat they get treated like one.

Sometimes people don't realize their behavior. Recently a family member was treating everyone rudely. We talked about it and he was completely unaware. He had already stopped the bad behavior but if we had not told him he would have never realized how his behavior was affecting everyone.

Anele, I'm sorry you're having the struggles you're having. Reading through your post, I caught a few key phrases that to me indicate that there is a lot of history and maybe misunderstandings from both sides that need to be sorted out. It takes two to make a marriage so please don't take the whole burden of the issues upon yourself; IOW, it is not ALL your fault and it is not up to you alone to fix it. I would also urge you not to assume you know what your husband feels or wants; when one assumes they are usually wrong. JGBM is so right when she says communication is important. But it's equally important to understand how differently men and women communicate. I think if every couple went into a marriage knowing how differently their partner expresses and interprets conversation and knew how to navigate through those differences a lot more marriages would survive.

I haven't been married as long as JGBM (congrats on that JGBM!) but I married my husband about 3 months after meeting him (in person) and it will be 16 years for us come Friday. We have always communicated easily with each other and we have an unspoken understanding that there are lines that we will never cross when it comes to the way we treat each other especially when we argue. Quite simply, once said, you can never take things back, so especially when we're frustrated or upset, we are very careful in what we say to each other and how we say it.

I think you and your husband may want to consider seeking some couples counselling by a trained professional (as opposed to the church) to help you sort out some of the issues you're going through. Even if your DH isn't interested (for whatever reason) it may be helpful for you to still go on your own since you are looking for answers.

I hope things work out (((hugs)))

I'm so glad you're speaking up. I have never had a problem calling my kids out when they are rude or disrespectful to me or anyone else but it took me 25 years to learn to stand up for myself to my DH. It was just little digs, no big deal right? But they do get wearing.

I do what you do. Call him on it and leave the room. I don't want to start an argument because how I feel about what he says isn't up for debate, what I want is for him to think about it which is why I leave the room.

justgotabeme is right. We have to communicate and be open about what is being said but men and women do interpret things differently. I am careful about checking my words and actions more so as well.

I don't believe in that theory that respect has to be earned. I automatically respect everyone I come into contact with, they are a person, they deserve it. If you lose my respect because of your behaviour to me or others, then you will have to earn it back.

Glad you have started telling him when you find something disrespectful; I hope that helps, but if it only helps YOU, that is okay, too.

To me, this was a red flag: "More along the lines of instilling self-doubt. When I point this out, he makes comments like, 'I forgot-- no one can ask you anything.' " That is absolutely bully behavior and, speaking as one who has been through it, abusive. No one should have to put up with that. It is intended to turn the blame on you and shut you down. There is no excuse for it. I agree that counseling by a professional for either both of you or just you and not through church or a pastor could be good if you are planning to stay.

With your daughter, well, she is coming into a difficult age, but I think that you need to be very clear about what is acceptable and what is not. I would bring it up during a calm, fun time and not in the middle of a confrontation.

I am sending good, strengthening thoughts your way and wish you the best.

Whenever it's necessary to stand up and speak up to him and leave the room, just remember you have a whole group of support behind you!

anele, you have wonderful communication skills. You express complicated, nuanced thoughts very well. You've got insight, patience, and fundamental kindness in spades. And yes, you do have a good sense of humor -- we've enjoyed it here in the forum for years.

These traits are your strongest tools, and I've no doubt they will serve you well as you work out your relational kinks with your beloved family. Your husband will be a tough nut to crack -- men are stubborn and think so very differently than women -- but you are not one to wilt when confronted with obstacles. Your daughter is probably more reachable. Keep chipping away at her with your love and fine communication skills. Please don't despair & know you have our love and support.

(p.s. Should I send you the salmon puff recipe? You could always use them as a threat if your family gets too snarky with you.)

All good advise here. It does seem that you have reached your breaking point now that you see behavior being repeated through your daughter.

Men and women do think differently. I am wondering to if he knows just how much your feeling are being hurt by his actions and comments.

Since we are being honest, I have a husband who can't remember birthdays, anniversaries etc. and also finds it difficult to give a compliment. I only knew his mom for a short time before she died, but I know that not giving praise came from her. When my oldest was born, I said to my MIL one day "Look how cute "M" is!" She said, "Oh don't keep saying that, she'll get a swollen head." Mmmmmm. Okay then.

This bothered me for a while. But, now if I want a compliment from DH, I will turn and say, "How does this look for going out to dinner tonight?"

I once mentioned to a friend about the anniversary and birthday issue. She thought it was just so terrible! Me? I just gave my DH the heads up. Now with computers as part of our daily life, he has a calendar that alerts him a few days ahead, and then on the day of every birthday and event. And I mean every birthday. Example, "Oh, look, my Mom would have been 106!"

I suggest counseling for yourself. You will be able to better relate to your husband in words that he will better understand. Right now you have your specific roles. You have been in yours a very long time.

On a side note, I change my mind constantly. This is very frustrating for my DH. Although I don't really believe in astrology, maybe the Gemini in me likes to see both sides of things. I now can make a joke, rather than have a disagreement, when DH will say, "Just choose one already!"

I truly hope you can find your way to the other side.

Anele, I have always enjoyed your posts and count you as a friend.

I agree that the eye roll thing from your husband is disrespectful. I would ask him to go for counseling again and if he doesn't agreed to go I would go by myself. When my first DH died my children and I went for counseling. My son has never let go of his anger over his father's death but the counseling was my lifeline.

Tishtosh, I am sorry that you see some of my story in yours-- but has your situation been improved? I certainly do not feel wonderfully talented and mothering these days has been leaving me drained. You are so kind to think that of me.

Justgotabme, I think the fact that you can communicate so rationally with your spouse speaks volumes! Mine usually just gets defensive. How wonderful to be married happily for so many years! It is the best gift you have given to your children, in my opinion!

Debrak, I find it amazing that your relative changed his behavior. That is really something, and I find it unusual. It seems that not only do some people not change, but maybe even MOST people don't change? I have threatened to leave. I was really serious about it last week because he was so hostile towards me for repainting. I thought, no way can I, as a grown woman, live with a man who is so hostile to me for doing such a simple thing. To me, that is crazy. I was doing all the work, staying up to all hours, and he only had to do a little extra housework. He will always change for a little while after a big fight but then it goes back to same old.

I am on the fence about how not to be a doormat. My mom taught me that the best response to rudeness was to stay silent. However, while this sometimes works-- it does not always. There was a performance art piece of a woman who stood naked in public for 6 hours or so. She surrounded herself with different objects-- some that were gentle and some that could hurt her. As she stood without moving, people bullied her. But when her 6 hours were up and she began to move, people scattered. She interpreted this to mean that just "ignoring" does not work.

Lukk, congrats on the upcoming anniversary! We just celebrated (without celebrating) our 15th. You are very right that my husband and I have a long history of issues, and also so true about not being able to take things back. There have been MANY things (and issues) that should never have been said or allowed to happen. Unfortunate, but what can one do, except move on and keep trying, I suppose.

As for counseling-- we did go to a professional. The initial marriage counseling was done through the church but later we went to a dedicated counselor, complete with a PhD. He had a lot of good insights, and I think some of the key messages were very valuable. It's putting them into practice that has been the issue.

Blfenton, I like what you said about respect. I don't know where my husband stands on that issue regarding his view of me because more often it is the digs vs. a full-blown approach. I am so glad you are also leaving the room and hope you have seen results. It helps to not escalate the situation yet get the point across. We don't have control over what people say, but at least we can not "take" it.

Cyn, I am so sorry you have been subjected to abusive behavior. I looked up signs of emotional abuse and my DH fit most of them (there were 30). BUT, when I read the stories of people who were truly being abused, they didn't sound like mine at all. They tended to have more possessive spouses/partners or it happened day in, day out. So, I feel like I am complaining when it is so minor compared to others. And I can't help but keep coming back to all I have done wrong. You are so right that what he says is intended to shut me down. That is the #1 way he "discusses" things. If I bring up a problem, he tells me I do the same thing, or I am perfect, uses absolutes like "always," "never," etc.

Rococogurl, that does help. Thank you!

Awm03, those are such beautiful words to say! Thank you so much. I don't feel I fit them but I very much appreciate that you see me that way. I really like your perspective of seeing this as a challenge, not an insurmountable obstacle. I feel so touched by your support-- and hee hee about the salmon puff recipe! Just thinking about it makes me smile.

Ellendi, yes-- it sounds like, with your husband, it was more an issue of what was on his radar vs. yours, but there was no malice behind it. My MIL is like his, so you are right that I need to keep that in mind. When our first daughter started walking and my DH shared the news with her, she said, "Well, babies learn to walk." NOTHING is ever a big deal to her . . .it is so hard, if not impossible, to get even a nod of approval. So, I need to remember this with DH, that he is starting from a place where people in his life held on tight to saying nice things. Maybe it was seen as being weak? Such good advice, too, to make a joke of things.

Holly-Kay, if I recall correctly your first husband died quite young, yes? In his 40s? I feel so bad for your son, to carry around the anger. There is hope he can let go. I am so glad counseling made a big difference for you. And please know I have been thinking about you as you go through this stressful period of selling your business!

Thank you all again. This has been very helpful.

Anele, though we have a wonderful marriage, it is not perfect. Neither of us our. As wife and Mom, I do think we women are expected to do all and be all. Even in a good marriage that can happen. It has in mine.
I have a hobby of refinishing, and repurposing furniture so hubby had a good sized shed with two lofts built for me last fall to store it in. This was not only to help me out, but give my hubby the room for the the two sets of tool storage carts and chests to go. Not to mention room to park our vehicles again. We have a wood work shop in the basement where I work on my furniture.
We had such a warm winter that he and our son golfed so often that I had very little help in getting things moved to the shed before winter finally came. They gave me a little time this Spring when we had a cold enough spell that they couldn't golf and promised an hour a weekend until it was all moved. I should add I did help, but most was just telling them where things should go. I'm quite good at space management but have a neck that has to be babied because of an injury from helping hubby awhile back. Late last month after yet another weekend went by where neither of them helped me, I decided it was time to do as promised more than 35 years ago and tell him how I felt. I reminded him how I was always there to do what both he and our son wanted/needed me to do. I don't put it off because I have something else I want/need to do, I do what they want, when they want it. Period. Adding that I felt I should get the same from them and that an hour a weekend wasn't asking too much.
He was so not happy with me and pretty much tried to come up with all sorts of excuses. Some valid as he does work out of state four days a week. I reminded him I was only asking for an hour a week, which is where I ended the conversation telling him that now he knew how it looked from my point of view and left it at that.
The next morning when I got up, he's a very early riser, I am not, I came down stairs to find him in the garage. He had most everything out of the garage, but for one stack, most of it into the shed except for the things that needed to go up into the lofts. He said he was going to wait for our son to come home to help him as he didn't want me climbing the ladder. That was the first thing they did when our son got home.
He told me quite a few times afterwards how happy he was to have it done and how nice it was to walk through the garage now.
I do hope you can find a way to get your husband to realize the pain he's causing you. There's no reason he should get so mad when you did all the work in painting the room. So what if had to do a few things around the house. It's his house too. If he won't go to counseling, maybe he'll at listen to you. So please don't give up in telling him when he hurts you. As you said, part of it could be his upbringing. He needs to learn that both his actions and his words are hurting you. You are too sweet of a person to be treated like he's treating you and teaching your daughter to treat you.
I'll be praying for you. <3

Anele, have you considered going to counseling on your own? It might give you some perspective and would be a good way to get things off your chest. Just a thought. I so agree with you about a good marriage being a gift to your children. We don't have children but quite a few years back (we've been married 30+ years), our church had a wonderful pastor who had yearly "marriage retreats" for couples. They were always such fun, a night away, time alone and time with other couples. A session to share and discuss. That comment has always stuck in my head about a good marriage being the best gift you can give your children. That was in one of his talks/discussions about children and marriage.

Have you tried sitting your husband down and explaining things, how you feel, etc. to your husband? I do hope things improve. (((hugs)))

Maybe your daughter can see the wisdom of this and help in reminding your husband when he does it. It would be better if if wasn't just you all the time. It's hard to get people to love something like decorating if they don't. They shouldn't be disrespectful but I don't think they will ever want to have a meaningful discussion about paint with you.

(((anele)))

Oh I hope things work out for you. I know that we can all have bad habits and some of those, such as rudeness, can come from a place of history and can become ingrained and normalized. It sounds like that's what happened to your DH. Perhaps individual counseling as suggested might help. You are not who your husbands comments and behaviour says you are and you need to know that and become strong with that knowledge. (Does that make sense?)

When I see your name in a post or thread I always read what you have to say because it's always helpful (certainly never a "rolley-eye" comment) and friendly and respectful.

Anele, I am not sure how to define better. My mother has been married 4 times, this last one is her longest marriage and she is absolutely miserable and I can look at that and wonder why people exalt staying marriage when it is so awful for some. On the other side of that, since her first 3 marriages were while I was still in the house, I understand the impact on the children. Monetarily there is not a lot I can do for my children but one gift I will give them is a stable home life. Neither DH or I are volatile, there is not a lot of arguing, etc. My youngest is 8, one son has autism and one daughter has diabetes. There is a lot for them (and us) to deal with and I feel that right now, their parents being married and together is an asset. If that were to change, I would have to re-evaluate things, again. I am even considering quitting my job right now so that I can deal with the needs of the family and doing so obviously keeps me tethered to my husband.

On a personal level, I can tell you that the situation is helping me to grow. I am learning a tremendous amount through my relationship with my husband. Because of my mom's marital history, I thought that I had a lot of answers. Ha! I have certainly learned a tremendous amount of compassion for women in a variety of marital situations. I have learned a lot about who I am. I was 18 when I got married so this has been important and I am beginning to see the ways the relationship has shaped me and much of it in ways I like. I am developing a better understanding of the limitations of what my marriage means to me and am working on means of finding what I need elsewhere. I have also spent quite a bit of time looking at marriage historically and culturally to understand my own position better (recently read a great sociological book on the history of marriage, very illuminating). There is also a line in Pride and Prejudice that has challenged me for a time. This is not verbatim, of course, but it is describing how Mr. Bennett was charmed by the beauty of his wife but then upon be married, realized her disposition was not well suited to his but found his contentment in other things. For the time being, I am trying to see where my contentment may lie. My husband is steadfast, so any changes are likely to be small and gradual and I am working on coming to peace with it. When the kids are grown, who knows if I will have learned to be content or desire something else. At that time, we will have been married 30 years. I hope that you are able to find what you need.

Thank you again so much. I apologize for my long delay in responding. My mother had a fall due to a medicine she should never have been given and has been in the ER and then hospital. She is recovering well but things have been chaotic.

Just, I really like your approach. If my husband had gotten angry or put off the work I would have lashed out and added fuel to the fire. You were very calm and sensible but you expressed your feelings. It is comforting to know that even in rock solid marriages there will be moments that are trying but what counts is the respect you give each other during those trying times.

Tina, a couples' retreat would be amazing. Neither my husband nor I are religious but I think finding one would help. We have no means of childcare for something like that but I wonder if I could plan one for us at home. Sort of a night and weekend thing where we have a more dedicated time to being together, even with some planned movies, books to talk about, etc.. It would not be the same but maybe it would jumpstart us.

Kitty, I agree no one should have to talk endlessly about a subject they are not interested in. For my husband it can be even just one sentence and the eye rolling and sighing begin, but it is likely due to him thinking about cost more than anything. I don't think he would like it if my DD would remind him, unfortunately.

Belfenton, yes, it absolutely makes sense and I need to keep that in mind. I think this is such a good reminder in general, along the lines of the 4 agreements not to take things personally but at the same time, to set limits. You are so kind to say my writing does not cause you to eye roll. I am not kidding. I get so much of it it does feel like maybe I deserve it at times.

Tishtosh, so interesting that you and your husband are not volatile- but even with being reasonable/sensible/rational you feel there are issues? How have you managed to both remain so calm and patient despite the health challenges of your children? One of my children has special needs which has had serious consequences/impacts her behavior. (Not the 13 year old.) This has strained our already strained marriage further, though the more help we get for her, the more I do find we are "united" in trying to find a solution and in some ways we have become even more bonded. At the moment I write this, said daughter is in a partial hospitalization program.

I abosolutely agree that we cannot and should not find everything we need in just marriage, but should look inward and outward as well (to other people, interests, etc.). It is a balance. I find it logistically difficult to manage this because there are so many pressing needs within my family and few resources. This board and the friendships I have found here have absolutely helped!

Thank you Anele. I'm not saying I've/we've never raised our voices to each other, we have. It's rare though. Generally we joke about our differences and what bugs us about the other. We know those little things are nothing in comparison to all the good.
I'm so sorry to hear about your Mom's fall and hospitalization. Praying for healing for her and a calm for you all. <3

I tried to research answers for partners, children, co-workers,etc. showing disrespect and most authors agreed silence only encourages more of the same. The best method is to confront it without anger and explain that it hurts you and is never acceptable and you want it to stop. It uses the same method as stopping bullying. Stand tall, speak with a clear voice and don't soften it with any apology or maybe it's me kind of thing. Look the person in the eye. The change in behavior should happen right away. I let people do this to me in the past. It hurts.

The one thing I always wonder when reading through posts like these is whether or not the man in the relationship is thinking about it as much as the woman is. It's his marriage too. Is he thinking, talking, reading everything he can about marriage? I doubt it. I think if one partner had a problem both of you have a problem. I think that goes both ways.

I was married for 30 years to a man whose every dismissive and condescending behavior I dismissed because "he didn't know better" or because he "has so many wonderful positive qualities" and had "a rough childhood." Nonsense! I bent myself into a paper clip for years trying to find the right way to express things or the magic that would get him to understand. I never ever in a million years thought I was abused. I didn't have black eyes, broken bones. But abuse doesn't have to look like that and emotional abuse is "real" abuse.