It's a valid observation :-) And one I'd take a bit further as well. You touched on it with your reference to hardscaping but landscaping is more about layout, functionality and a specific response to site conditions than it is about plant choices. An instructor once used the analogy of baking a cake - the basics of landscaping - layout, functionality, site conditions, clients' needs/wants, hardscaping and support systems (irrigation, drainage, lighting, etc) are the ingredients that 'create' the cake. The plant selection is simply the icing on the cake and the last ingredient of concern after everything else is completed and in place.

For any given landscaping planting situation, there are numerous plants that will work, but nailing down the plants seems to be the first thing asked when posters are seeking help when it really should be the last, after all other issues are addressed. But I guess that's to be expected with those who have never had experience with landscape design. Many do seem to equate landscaping only with plant selection, when it is a much more detailed issue.

I'm not sure your view that plant selection is better addressed in regional or plant specific forums necessarily makes you 'an old grump' - I've made that same suggestion to various posters myself :-) Or maybe I'm an old grump too!! Particularly since I am not inclined to offer a lot of actual landscaping advice on this forum even though I do this for a living. For one, I don't think it is very efficient to attempt landscape design long distance or remotely via photos - there is too much missing to the 'cake ingredients' if not actually viewed in person. Without this inperson observation and input, the cake is not very likely to come out even or properly baked - it will be lumpy and half raw. Second, it seems like most posters are indeed just looking for help with plant selection, as you have observed - not actual landscaping advice. And finally, and this is where the real grumpy attitude comes in, I am disinclined to give away for free on a public forum what I earn my living doing. But there are some very generous professional contributors to this forum who do, to the benefit of all.

I agree, Gardengal. Make and bake the cake before you put the frosting on. The order in which you combine the ingredients is very important.

It irritates me when people refer to 'their landscaper' when they're really talking about a maintenance person. The two are entirely different.

Mike...in for a break.

hmm; here's a layperson's view. To me, "landscaping," in residential terms, is what goes in the yards, other than dirt. It includes plants and hardscaping. Proper landscaping, to me, takes into account the environmental conditions, the style of the residence, and the uses to which the homeowner puts their yards. It addresses both aesthetics and functions. Plants and hardscape are chosen to enhance curb appeal, create specific functional areas, and encompass water flow and use and drainage.

I think most people coming to this forum are looking for two things; 1) curb or backyard appeal; or 2) solutions to specific problems, often drainage.

It frustrates me a bit that people often seem to want a complete solution handed to them without doing any thinking about it, but that's a different frustration than PKponder's.

Thank you for all of your thoughtful responses.

I am absolutely a layperson also, I used to have a Master Gardener cert but work demands (IT field) left me no time to pursue that.

I do notice one thing that happens regularly here that I like to see, education. A lot of the folks that come here asking for help don't really know what they should be considering prior to tackling a landscaping or even a moderate curb appeal plant refresh project. They don't consider that little Ricky is going to be playing football with his friends in the front yard soon and that maybe it's a bad spot for a rose garden :-)

I thank all of the designers that come here to help those of us that need help.

And thank you, yardvaark, for being such a "frequent perpetrator" of dispensing basic design advice :-) However, I think you are giving the benefit of the doubt to many posters with the statement "I don't view the offerings as a finished product like a paying client
might expect. They are suggestions that almost always need to be
converted into a plan". From my long time (but recently infrequent) participation in this forum, it seems to me that the vast majority of posters requesting design assistance will take whatever suggestions are made and simply run with it. There is no 'plan' beyond consideration of the suggestions made and typically minimal concern for any site conditions beyond ramping up curb appeal. I just have a lot of trouble considering that to be "landscape design" as I prefer to acknowledge or practice it and one of the primary reasons I pick and choose what threads to respond to :-)

And I agree wholeheartedly on the current state of everyday landscaping. In most cases it is so random with way too much emphasis on plant selection and not enough on layout, scale and site considerations. Thankfully, many homeowners in my area are coming to a similar conclusion and seeking out my services, which is keeping me very busy!! Recent purchases of overgrown, neglected foreclosure properties seems to be a hot item right now :-)

the average homeowner lacks the ability and talent to deal with "layout, scale, and site considerations" You can learn it, but trial and error, over time, if you put in the effort. I think. (not making any claims as to my personal knowledge or ability, lol!)

It would be great if there were more professional landscape designers and architects available, and affordable, for small scale homeowner stuff, but most "landscapers" in my area are actually poorly educated concrete guys. They can pour concrete, build rock walls, lay sod, and dig holes; that's about it. If you want plants that actually thrive in your area, you have to do more work and research yourself, especially in very specialized, difficult environments like mine.

Most people just don't care, I guess. I often look real estate listings in my area, and am astounded at how many high end homes, inhabited for years, have almost no landscaping at all -- at least in the rear. Everyone wants to present a good "front" but the back usually shows no effort or imagination. If they have the money to buy those big houses, why not budget for the exterior?

Meh - I re-read my post above, and decided I was not being kind to the "average homeowner." Really, there isn't such a thing, and who am I to suss out everyone's first world problems? Lots of people have talent and imagination and energy they just choose to spend on other things.

Thank you Gardengal. I don't disagree with you that many homeowners who seek advice here will take it verbatim and run with it. Oh well! While I wish they'd put more thought and effort into it, I have satisfaction that at least they are likely to come out with a better end result than if they just tried to work it out completely on their own or with the advice of friends and neighbors who know no more than they do about landscape design. If I can steer them away from the common mistakes, I'm good with that. I don't believe that most people who come here are otherwise likely to seek professional help. There are exceptions and sometimes those seek professional help in addition to what they get here.

if so, they're lucky to have, and take that advice

Landscaping is to gardens as climate change is to the weather. A landscaper is simply one who works in the garden. It could be creative work or maintenance work. Design is a very complex process that overlaps with many variables. Design is not providing a suggestion to plant Daylilies along a sidewalk. Its just an idea and that is all most homeowners are looking for : ideas about what to do with this or that space. But I agree with the OP, most people are fixated with plants. Which is understandable since the name of the forum is GardenWeb and most people associate gardens with plants.

Another observation I have made is the self proclaimed expertise of the "Master Gardener" who are not instructed in design and are typically used simply to identify an unknown plant along with an unknown disease. Except for MGs that come from other landscape related backgrounds, many are retired people who have an affinity for plants. I am not interested in giving someone advice about the brown spots on the leaves of their cucumber, but am more interested when someone asks, How can I make this courtyard enchanting?

I'm a homeowner & hobbyist gardener and I really appreciate the advice and discussions on this board. It has made me think more about the shape and location of planting beds, vs. just thinking about what to put in them. That really helped me review and propose changes to the plan that a local landscaping company prepared for my front & side yards after we completed an addition. I didn't have time to post photos and ask questions here, but reading old posts was invaluable.

To answer the OP's question, I think landscaping is a combination of hardscaping and plants; I think it's more than choosing plants, but I wouldn't take the plant selection out of the equation. By analogy, interior designers design rooms down to the smallest details, although the placement and scale of furniture is probably the area in which their talents are most distinguishable from the armchair hobbyist 'decorator.'