Extreme Makeover Basement DIY Edition-- Dirt Cheap but Custom
hr01
11 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
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11 years agohr01
11 years agoRelated Discussions
Anyone use CleanSpace (encapsulated crawl space) on their home?
Comments (85)Great comments everyone...price ...can be between $2- $3/sf. Anything more is overkill. As to the smell of some companies poly ... there was a run 4+ years ago where a handful of manufacturers that made a poly that was white on one side and black on the other and was reinforced. 1 of 10 after several months to a year started smelling like cat pee and got stronger. I ripped out a handful of these crawl poly's. I wouldn't blame the sealed company's only because we all look for a deal on plastic to pass on to you ... and the odor doesn't start for awhile...that could be 400 crawls in 6 months for a handful of us. That's 40 of them stinking and 30 notice enough. About the DIY'ers ... I have DIY hardwood floors ... brakes... toilets...etc ... It takes me 6 months to get a diligent guy up and going on crawls where I can let him run and inspect his work after. I couldn't imagine the $ lessons learned that a DIY'er gets into. Just know it takes one really experienced crawl space tech and 3 new techs to finish correctly a 2600 sf sealed crawl using 50 labor hours. Know that 50% of your homes air comes from the crawl space so a poorly prepped sealed crawl can trap some pretty nasty mold. Dehu's: to use or not to use??? Tests show that mold has not grown in sealed crawls that use a 4 inch air supply line per 1500sf with average height of 2.5 ft. Though the humidity reduces down in the South (Raleigh Area) to 68%-77% when sealed still leaves high humidity compared to the average homes humidity of 52%. But mold does not grow. Why? I can only guess ... A. Ground, where mold comes from, is sealed off B. Air is slightly circulating from the air supply line on your supply side. And a dehu wholesales $1000 average ... then install and electrical hardwire hookup and gravity fed condensation line. $1600-$1800 should be fair?? And that will take your humidity down to your chosen level ... most, I have found, chose 50%. Now here's the rub ... your dehu is taking up a chunk if not all of your energy efficiency that your conditioned sealed crawl gives to your AC system. So if you don't take the old insulation out and seal in the mold and the defication from the crickets, mice and snakes and you aren't getting any efficiency out of the sealed crawl ... then why invest $ at all??? No savings or better air quality. My recco: pull floor insulation, sanitize entire crawl for SUPERIOR lifetime air quality ... seal crawl and forget the dehu and gain 15.8% energy efficiency on new homes past 2008 ... higher efficiency for older homes. My pet peeve.... if a home has mold on the beams and evidence of cricket poop ... little black pellets all over the joists ... I wont seal it without pulling the insulation and disinfecting the crawl. But 95% of all companies seal the crawl trapping in ALL THAT MESS and that's there standard seal crawl practice. That should be criminal!!! Like all the contractors who knew back in early 1900's that lead based paint was killing children but kept using it because it was cheap ... until 1970's when a law was passed after ??? more than a million baby's past away. I feel mold in the crawl is that same issue that is slow to REAR ITS UGLY HEAD ... buyer beware ... short cuts can hurt you long term. www.SealedSolution.com...See MoreDo something or nothing?
Comments (57)I liked the idea of moving the refrigerator, having a huge pantry and perhaps moving the opening from the kitchen into the dining room. So, late last night, I headed to the kitchen with a chair and a tape measure. If my kitchen were 3 feet longer, it might work, but it's not. If I do either of these things, I lose a LOT of counter space and upper cabinets where food stuff is kept. I don't want to have to walk across the kitchen with food stuff that now I can reach right up and get. Also, I do not have enough wallpaper for the dining room to do this. It's a discontinued Cole's paper I carried back from London about 13 years ago, and it's PERFECT with my curtains, which I have decided are staying - can't find a fabric I like as well as what I have and it would cost a minimum of $5000 for material, trim and labor to duplicate style I have and love. I would also lose my dog den and a place near the sink for my trash can - remember, I HATE under the counter trash cans! New refrigerator? Out of the question! First of all, I LOVE my refrigerator, it's only about 4-5 years old, and it IS counter-depth. Yes, a Liebherr would work nicely if I had an extra $6000-8000 lying around. Not happening. I looked at them for a client a few years ago - geese, I would have to get my step stool to get thing on the top shelf! What I have learned in this exercise is that a kitchen is as personal a thing as ones handbag or wallet. How I might "more efficiently" organize yours, could be a living nightmare for you. How we cook is equally as individual. Also, WHAT we cook. Remember, I'm not cooking for a family of 5 with 3 teenagers - just one old lady. The next people who own this house will undoubtedly gut the kitchen and design it for how THEY live. And they should. Abe's email and the company web site are down and he is not returning my phone calls. Time Warner has had some glitches and since he's in a rural area, they may just still be down. I have realized that what I want to do is SO similar to what I already have as to be a ridiculous waste of money. NO ONE but me would notice that the cabinets were no longer partial-overlay inset but where now either inset or full-overlap. The color would stay the same, the paper the same, the counter-tops the same as it took me 4 months to find something that worked with the hall off the kitchen that I also liked. I love the hall so that's staying the same, too! But you ladies have helped me IMMENSELY with your suggestions, comments, compliments to make this decision. I cannot thank you enough for saving me from a VERY expensive job that would gain me very little. You're the best!!!...See MoreSmall decisions that can cost (or save) a lot!
Comments (42)Not staying on top of the designers with regard to a square foot budget. I work with production builders all the time and the big bus driver for them when it comes to cost is the size of the house. They're always on top of me to design to get each square foot as efficient as possible while having minimal effect on function. I guess that's the difference between them and most folks here as they are experienced CLIENTS. We all know production is a different animal than custom but not when it comes to the cost of a square foot of house and the effect on a clients wallet. Most custom plans I see here are oversized and to a degree, bloated. They could easily be downsized with zero effect on function but great effect on a clients costs. I posted an example here http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3608226/plans-back-from-architect?n=25 Similar conceptual but over 20% less in area than the posters plan. Doesn't mean 20% less in costs of course since we're still building expensive kitchens and baths but certainly 10%. In my posted example that 10% is maybe $60K savings over the posters plan, probably more. It's like the client finding a couple of free cars in the garage on moving day!!! So, don't hesitate to push your designers to get more out of less area. My builder clients do it all the time and that's served me well in the custom end....See MoreBuilding on the cheap - interested in your ideas!
Comments (49)I'm enjoying everyone's feedback as well. And if I can't handle Sophie's criticism then I have no business building my own home. Yep. That alone should make you ready to take on some of the trades. LOL. I'm interested in feedback on the one GC we have spoken with, who seems like he could be a good fit for us... Charles comes highly recommended by a good friend who has has worked as a GC, and comes from a family of GCs. Charles built a detached garage for him recently. Charles is 25 years old and started in construction when he was 16, working for a builder that built homes from scratch and did large and medium sized remodel projects. When the GC he worked for retired, he told Charles that if he got his GC license, he'd give him all his client contacts, which Charles did. Charles has worked on home build projects from beginning to end, but he hasn't built an entire house as the lead. Our house design is 2-story, 2100 square feet, a simple box shape, with a simple roof line and one dormer. It's not a complicated house, and it would be a great resume builder for him. He has incentive to do a great job for us. Our supervisor is 33 years old and is probably one of the best people I have ever worked with. He's got a great head on his shoulders and knows his stuff. Being a former Mennonite doesn't hurt either since he, like Charles has been working construction sites since he was in his pre-teen years. The one thing that would concern me is that Charles being so young most likely doesn't have credit built up with any of the suppliers. Unless the suppliers are extending the credit to him because of his old boss. The thing is if you're working through a bank then the bank will not front money upfront. They pay when certain things have been done to their satisfaction. So when the slab is poured, they pay a certain percentage. When the rough framing is done they pay a bit more, etc. That could be a problem if Charles doesn't have the extended credit from suppliers. Also if you go with Charles or anyone, make sure you have an ironclad contract as to what gets done, when they get paid, what percentage, etc. Also make sure you have it vetted by a construction lawyer. I liked the ven diagram: cheap, fast, good, and being able to have 2 of the 3. We have time on our side - project delays won't kill us. Charles seems up for creative work arrangements, or at least talking about them. I'm not married to the idea of swinging a hammer - I've just done enough construction inspection that I figured there would be a way to contribute. Listen to Sophie as to ways to contribute. Honestly, being a good homeowner with a GC is still a full-time job for you. First there are all the things that need to be chosen in a timely manner. Flooring, paint, windows, trim, wall texture, plumbing fixtures, cabinets, trim details, exterior details, fencing, landscaping, pavers, type of garage texture, low voltage, electrical outlets, lighting fixtures, where the lighting fixtures need to go, what light goes with what switch and on and on and on. Then there are the daily things that need to be looked at and/or changed because even with the best architect, things come up. The framers put the staircase in the wrong way, or in my case they built it to the plans and it was too high a riser. What happens when you find out the second floor windows were ordered wrong because the roof gets in the way? Or they ordered the wrong window size? Or do you want the windows flush with the exterior of the house, interior of the house, or set in between? How will they be finished both inside and outside. How will you solve the myriad of daily problems that come up? My supervisor and I have a weekly meeting on Monday afternoons. At that meeting, I keep a notepad and write down EVERYTHING we discuss and who's going to do what, and how we're going to solve any issues. I then type it up and send him a copy for our records. That's a way you can be helping. I also do some above and beyond in checking out with the vendors to make sure my tile diagrams are correct, triple check that my builder is ordering things on time, etc. (They tend to wait till the last minute) As I said, a large part of my days, even with my house up and drywalled, and working through a builder, is still taken up with building stuff. Of course I tend to want things how I want them. We have our electrician and plumber lined up already - people we know who are extremely capable. We'll be getting mini splits for our heating and cooling system. Will they be available when your GC needs them? Who will pay them? Again this goes back to the bank issues and also as Sophie said, who's in charge. We've done a full kitchen remodel, so I'm comfortable with everything that entails. Before I started my build, I thought a bit like you. How hard could it be to supervise different trades, schedule them, etc? After all, I've done a full kitchen remodel myself with my ex. Tore down to the walls, hung cabinets, laid tile, installed new sink, hung wallpaper, painted, etc. Also did several other rooms in that house too. And scheduled trades in my second house to come in and complete a few rooms. And in my condo we just sold, hired a GC who charged a premium to tear our condo down to the studs and rebuild almost the whole place. However none of that makes me a GC or builder or able to handle the daily work needed to build a house. It is 1000x more involved. Trust me. While they are both fruits, one is an apple and the other is an grapefruit. We would sub out the trades that Charles isn't qualified to do as needed, and with vetting. And how will you find these people because as mentioned the best subs work for GC's who feed them continual work....See Morehr01
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