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Cacti & Succulents

The Unspoken Succulent Cancer

8 years ago

The inevitable obviously happened, the unspoken white cancer for all succulents plagued my Sedum Rubrotinctum Aurora.

I took Andy's advise and started watering the mix with Bayer feed & protect with 1.47% Imidacloprid, sprayed some Bonide insect control with 0.02 permethrin.

I'm just really worried they are going to spray to my other plants. Any tips and advise on how to quarantine?

Featured Answer

xerophyte NYC

8 years ago

Do a Google search on the use of coffee grinds to ward off scale and mealies in Cycads. It's a safe and possibly viable option for succulents too. Can't hurt.

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Comments (34)

bernardyjh
Original Author
8 years ago
So far I've only found 1 established nest with white fuzzy weblike nettings. I immediately removed it with a qtip.
bernardyjh
Original Author
8 years ago
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Our Not-so-friendly Dogbanes Snow White was tempted to eat a beautiful, but wickedly poisoned, red apple. One might use similar terms to describe the dogbanes (family Apocynaceae), which possess showy, often gorgeous flowers while at the same time forming tissues that are laced with highly toxic organic chemicals. Of course, legend has it that Snow White awakened to a happy ending--recovering from her apple-induced comatose sleep with a kiss--but many dogbane poisons, if ingested, can actually kill a human, and do so within twenty-four hours if not sooner. The term dogbane officially denotes the genus Apocynum, meaning "away, dog"--presumably derived from an ancient observation that dogs found the plant distasteful and seemed to avoid it. The word "bane" refers to harm, ruin, or death, and early Europeans were therein cautious not to eat these plants and to keep livestock away from them, as well. 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Latex is present in all soft tissues of Apocynaceae--even in embryos of most seeds--occurring with the phloem of every major and minor vein. Although oleander latex is almost clear, nearly all 1800 species have copious white latex that oozes rapidly from any wound, issuing from dozens of extremely narrow tubes called laticifers. A common example of a plant with white latex is star-jasmine, Trachelospermum jasminoides, a twining ground cover widely cultivated throughout Southern California. Members of this family have non-articulated ("unjointed") laticifers--that is, each tube grows like a skinny, constantly elongating balloon with no cross walls. Powerful chemicals are manufactured by living cell parts within these tubes. These chemicals include alkaloids, cardiac glycosides, and resinoid compounds, evolved over the long history of this family to ward off predators and cause victims to regurgitate fruits, but now humans are potential victims. Along with the milkweeds, the dogbane familiy is notorious for producing many of the most powerful heart-stimulating chemicals, called cardiac glycosides or cardenolides. The most famous of these is digitalis, derived from the leaves of foxglove, Digitalis purpurea (family Scrophulariaceae), and used since the late 1800s to strengthen and steady heart rhythm. At just the proper dosage digitalis saves lives, but at a higher concentration the medicine becomes a deadly poison. So it is with the cardenolides of Apocynaceae; a number of them can have deadly consequences when ingested at high enough concentrations. Seeds of Strophanthus sarmentosa, for example, are rich in the compound strophanthin, which is just as potent as digitalis. In fact, the discovery of strophanthin in wet African forests propelled pharmacology to a new level of interest in using plant chemicals for human medicines (read Margaret Krieg, Green Medicine: The Search for Plants that Heal [1964]). 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Its shoot contains the alkaloid vincaleukoblastine (VLB), which became the poster child of ethnopharmacology in 1958 because it was the first plant chemical successfully used for treating and curing certain types of cancer, especially acute children's leukemia and Wilms' tumor. Leaves of Apocynaceae are always simple and entire (that is, they have no teeth, indentations, or lobes). Leaf arrangement is opposite in nearly all of the 170 genera, but we find some excellent examples of whorled leaves among Apocynaceae, as well, including golden trumpet (Allamanda cathartica) and most branches of oleander (others have opposite leaves). At MEMBG, one can also see whorled leaves on Strophanthus speciosus and, occasionally, Mandevilla pentlandiana. Plumeria and the lesser known herbaceous genus Amsonia are exceptional within the family in having helically alternate leaf arrangement. Blossoms are most commonly produced in few- to many-flowered inflorescences, often called cymes or racemes, rarely as solitary axillary flowers (such a rarity is Catharanthus). Moreover, with the exception of the dogbane genus, members of this family tend to have attractive, showy flowers. The corolla has a narrow floral tube with a wider funnelform or salverform opening, or five distinct lobes that are distinctively twisted, and which were also twisted (convolute) in bud. Colors are most often pure white, white with a yellow throat, yellow to orange, or pink to deep rose, but blue and bluish flowers can be found in the European species called creeping myrtle (Vinca minor) and greater periwinkle (V. major), also known as blue buttons, as well as within the genus Amsonia. Each flower generally has five sepals that are fused at their bases, five short stamnes that are fused to the corolla at the top of the floral tube, and an ovary with two chambers or two ovaries that may not be fused at the time of pollination and then are joined to a common stigma by a cleft style. The pistil then develops as a two-chambered fruit. In fact, during the 1980s important research on the ovaries of the Madagascar periwinkle, Catharanthus roseum, was being conducted by investigators in the UCLA Botany Building. Judy Verbeke and Dan Walker were studying the cell-to-cell communications between the two ovaries as they were fusing, an event known as post-genital fusion (American Journal of Botany 72:1314-1317, 1985). Outside the fence near Hershey Hall, MEMBG has a tree specimen of Thevetia peruviana, yellow oleander (formerly T. neriifolia, also called Cascabela thevetia), that produces apricot-colored flowers during the summer. 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andy_e
8 years ago
Argh, I hate those things. Sounds like you're on the right track. Did you dilute 2 tbsp/gallon on the Bayer? With peat-based mixes I only water them once with the Bayer solution and I think that's enough because they soak it up for a week or so. With gritty mix I think I'll apply it twice. Then I should be good for a year.
addicted2plants Southern IL USA
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Found some on one of my seedlings this morning too Bernard. I have a question for Andy. The Bayer you mentioned is obviously diluted in water and marketed as a concentrate. I have some spray Bayer products of the same with Imidacloprid as an active ingredient. Wondering if this can be used int he same manner, 2 tbsp per gallon of water. Could this be just as effective?

Tracy
andy_e
8 years ago
Tracy the dilution rate is based on a solution of 1.47% imidacloprid. You'd have to look at the label for the percentage in your product and adjust accordingly, so for example if you have .7% imidacloprid you'd use 4tbsp/gallon.
addicted2plants Southern IL USA
8 years ago
Andy thank you for the prompt reply. It would appear that the spray has already been diluted. It shows only .012%. I will get some of the concentrate today so that I can put my plants on the same regimen that you outlined.

Thanks again!

Tracy
addicted2plants Southern IL USA
8 years ago
Bernard can you provide the full name of the product you are using? I recall seeing Andy's previous post but cannot locate it. There are several different Bayer formulas available.

Thanks, Tracy
penfold2
8 years ago
There are several Bayer products with 1.47% Imidacloprid. It sounds like Bernard is using one with fertilizer in it as well. If you prefer a fertilizer free formula (you can still add your own fertilizer to the water), I used to use Bayer Advanced Season-Long Grub Control. It was very effective for me. Anything with 1.47% Imidacloprid will work at the 2 Tbs/gallon concentration, though. Just read the fine print.

-Chris
addicted2plants Southern IL USA
8 years ago
Thank you, Chris. I do prefer to use the one without fertilizer so not to interrupt my feeding schedule. And I have seen the Grub Control at my local retailer. Much appreciated.

Tracy
andy_e
8 years ago
Here's the one I use, it's $19 from Amazon with free shipping (if you have Prime) and I recall it being about the same price at Home Depot: http://www.amazon.com/Bayer-Advanced-Protect-Concentrate-32-Ounce/dp/B004TSU748

It has a little fertilizer but I wouldn't worry about that because you're not applying it all the time. I water with it one time for organic-based soils (two times for gritty) and then I do not use it again for a year. It's a systemic so it's taken up by the roots and it goes to all parts of the plant and will protect the plant continuously without further treatments.
addicted2plants Southern IL USA
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Thank you for the update, Andy. Is there a preferred time of the year that you treat? Spring, summer? Do you treat plants that may be stressed from say repotting also, what about young seedlings?

Tracy
andy_e
8 years ago
Treat them at a point when they're actively growing. If you just repotted a plant, it might not be the ideal time. I'm not sure it would hurt it, but I'm more cautious with recently repotted plants. I've never tried it on seedlings.
ewwmayo
8 years ago
Your post is very timely... I just found mealybugs on some of my plants today and posted what I ended up doing. It's frustrating because that same bottle of Bayer would cost me $44 from Amazon Canada, plus shipping.

As for quarantine - I put my most infested pot in a plastic white tub from the dollar store, which is sitting on a rectangular plastic planting tray. My other two pots were put on their own saucers in a similar planting tray. Hopefully the mealybugs are contained, not sure if this is enough.
bernardyjh
Original Author
8 years ago
Tracy - This is the one I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004TSU748/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Went to all home depot within my region, they don't carry it; ended up getting fed up and order it on Amazon. It doesn't show the label, but it's the 1.47% Imidacloprid. There was no break down in the fertilizing ingredients, but I'm assuming it's very high in Nitrogen.

Chris - Thanks for the recommendation!! I'll probably restock this version once I'm done with mine.

Andy - I started with a couple of ml, to ease the plants into it. But I got really frustrated seeing the bugs happily crawling and more leaves dropping that I decided to re-feed with 2 tbs/gallon last night. The bugs are still there, but they seem to be stagnant. Just hope my plants can pull through.

Mayo - It's like the season of awakening for these buggers, maybe it's the conducive weather that is spurring them to hatch/spawn to feed like no tomorrow now. Did you get to try Home Depot at your local store? They might have the possibility to carry it.

I get super PARANOID the more I read about these buggers, the male adults FLY!? Female lays up to 600 EGGS!

Does really putting the plants together in a tub really help prevent the infestation from spreading? I'm putting them FAR AWAY from all my plants now.
ehuns27 7a PA
8 years ago
Ah Mealy's... Good to catch them early. From the looks of the picture it is contained to one spot on your plant. When this happens to me I just put a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water on a q-tip and remove it. The actual bug turns red so it is easy to identify and the rest gets wiped off. I make sure to check the plant again for any spread but 9 times out of 10 that doesn't happen and when it does I just reapply and have no further issues. You can spray your plant with this mix as well adding a little bit of dish soap as long as you keep it out of direct sun.

I really try to make it a point not to use commercial pesticides and the use of Imidacloprid has been linked to the overall decline of bee populations. I am not trying to start a debate over whether it should be used or not and in whatever circumstance someone can come up with over it's use, I just want to inform those who care about the issue (I also won't get in to why you should care...). I have successfully avoided any sort of major infestation with good ol' IPA.

-Erica
pennyhal2
8 years ago
Maybe if you have a choice, use it after the plant has bloomed. I sometimes cut the blooms off first if I have a bad infestation so the bees stay away.
bernardyjh
Original Author
8 years ago
Erica, I've tried to stay away from bi-chemical products and have potted all my mix my with diatomaceous earth in my plants. But these things miraculously still find their way onto my plants. I guess I won't have to worry killing bees, since my plants are kept indoors most of the time.
ewwmayo
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I think acting fast is the most important, which is why I went with physical removal plus alcohol spray (that's all I had).

Here's hoping I don't have to remove the soil and can keep my blooms going!

Bernard - I checked home depot in person, but the selection was worse than what they listed online. Hopefully my current treatment is enough on its own.

Side note: Having to tell my wife that my beautiful indoor plants have creepy bugs on them was difficult. I made sure to not show her one or describe them at all. =P
bernardyjh
Original Author
8 years ago
Mayo - the Imidacloprid method has been tried and tested. Just have to be patient and wait for the pesticide to set in and be absorbed into the plant. Hopefully the mealy destruction can't out outmaneuver the plant taking in the poison.

Will send updates in abit.
andy_e
8 years ago
To Erica's point about the concerns over imidacloprid...I think those concerns are valid but as with every chemical, toxicity is a question of dosage. If I were running a high-volume commercial greenhouse I'd try to use something else. But for my little C&S collection, the small amount of imidacloprid I use once/year isn't going to hurt anything. I do wait until after flowering or I remove flowers if they're already on the plant.
ewwmayo
8 years ago
Ended up telling my wife about the mealybugs and she had a great idea! In the Philippines, people often put their food in a dish surrounded by water, so when the ants come they can't get to the food.

I sat my pots in their circular drip trays, nested inside a larger tub/plant tray. I filled the tub and plant trays up with about 1" of water to create a moat! The younger crawlers can't swim and should remain on the affected plants only (if they hatch).

Hopefully I'll be able to get rid of them before any of the males get large enough to fly. So far it's been a couple days and my plants still look clean. Once the two-week period passes, I'll declare them mealybug free. =)
ehuns27 7a PA
8 years ago
Mayo, just watch the amount of humidity that creates for your succulents. Typically something is similar is used for plants that require humidity and moisture (some bonsai's). If that doesn't create any issues it sounds like a good idea!

I found a huge mealy on my 'Pacific Pink' jade yesterday. He was outside of his gross sticky nest. When I tried to get him with the q-tip he moved away. I think I got enough on him to kill him but I didn't see where he went. This was by far the larger I've seen. Gross...

Andy, I definitely respect someone who knows the impact it's use has and tries to avoid dangerously dosing them. I know it's impossible these days to make a statement by not using something as a point but I just do not want to contribute financially for such a disruptive product, especially if I can find another way!

-Erica
bernardyjh
Original Author
8 years ago
My plant is in a really sad state, more lower leaves are dropping.. And I see the white spots in every corner of the plant. I'm just looking at it and can't help but feel dejected.

I can't put it with the other plants for more light, because I'm afraid it will spread (Mayo that's a good idea though, creating a moat to isolate the bugs!)

I'm avoiding the plant from direct light to prevent burn after applying Permethrin.

The plant seem to not as robust and taking water as it should, the mix is still moist.

I'll snap a picture tonight..
ehuns27 7a PA
8 years ago
Sorry your plant is struggling, Bernard! I am sure you will find a solution and it will bounce back in no time. Keep removing those white spots as you find them.

xero, I actually use coffee grinds in my vegetable garden. I think it is supposed to be good to detract many insects and pests. I have found the resident groundhog is also less likely to eat the leaves if there if coffee sprinkled on them - I guess he doesn't like the taste. I am not sure how this would work with succulents though. You generally try to keep particle sizes larger than coffee grinds. I would be worried they would build up in the mix. If you are using a soil-based mix though it might not be so worrisome; I use strictly gritty mixes.

-Erica
ewwmayo
8 years ago
If I spray 70% isopropyl alcohol again, I would not do it full strength. My Huernia and Gollum leaves looked a little worse yesterday, so I washed them off a bit with a fogger nozzle. Faucaria looked alright.

My Huernia now appears to have some stem/root damage, so tonight I am going to repot and risk losing the blooms. The flowers are already dropping faster than before so I sense there is a problem. (The small quantity of water I used probably didn't help the root issues).
Danielle Rose
8 years ago
All of my plants are indoors, and yet I still get mealies rearing their stupid fuzzy heads now and then. Recently I noticed a few here and there, and then realized a gollum that's fairly out-of-reach on the windowsill (and so not really under a watchful eye) is completely infested. I blasted it with water in the sink, and now I've got a 50/50 mix of water and rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle, which I've been using every 3-4 days to drench everything in the late afternoon, after direct sun has passed. The plants aren't too thrilled, but they're weathering it. At this point, I'd rather lose a few to this than keep suffering the darned mealies. Hopefully I catch all cycles of the pesties and we can get back to our previously-scheduled HAPPY GROWING.
andy_e
8 years ago
Worst case, you can snip the plant right above the soil line and re-root it. Toss the soil and then eliminating the remaining mealies on the plant will be straightforward. The ones on the roots are always harder to deal with.
pennyhal2
8 years ago
My understanding is that mealies live in the roots of the plant too. I've seen mealies on roots which was very disgusting. If that is so, just spraying them doesn't eradicate them.
ewwmayo
8 years ago
Bernard and Dannie - hope both your plants are faring better tonight!

I found the place where the mealies were hiding out and growing - it was under the main stem of my Huernia, very close to the soil. This is the very light area (on the left) with the shriveled part that I had to cut off.

Even though the roots were very healthy (on the right), I needed to cut my plant into several pieces. =(

Spoke to my neighbour - she's never seen mealybugs on the roof in any of her plants before, so I am now certain they came from the nursery. She said to keep the bugs on my side of the roof - I told her I'd prefer to keep them dead! =P
aztcqn
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
ehuns27 & pennyhal2, I agree with you as far as the imidacloprid. Good ideas. I 've been dealing with mealy outbreak every Spring/Summer. I think they thrive in heat and dryness. My understanding is to not let your plants unduly dry out for long periods of time. Avoid making it habitable for these stupid bugs.

Advise to clean the rim of your pots and underneath. I've found masses of cotton and bugs all along and inside crevasses, cracks, the drainage holes and even on hangers. Check your supports, benches because they will colonize on inorganic materials and then migrate to your plants. I've had to scrub even empty pots because their population was exploding last Summer. Also, make sure the ants are not found crawling on your plants or mix. They WILL farm these creatures for the honeydew they produce and will carry the bastards to you plants. Can you tell I don't like 'em? ;]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the nymphs or wee babies may float on air. Keep checking every 2 weeks for at least a month.

So sorry that some of you are facing this pest. I KNOW how that goes. It can be frustrating, so, get a jump on it and don't assume any plant nearby the infected one is clear. It may show sign weeks later. Treat them all.
bernardyjh
Original Author
8 years ago
Here's the state of my plants, it's not looking good. It doesn't seem to be reacting well to my chemotherapy treatments.

I saw those little bigger crawling on the pots the other day. I got so fed up and load up on the diatomaceous earth on the soil.

All the dying leaves seem to have these black markings on towards the connective portion to the stems.

I don't know if they are signs of rot or the mealy at work.
ewwmayo
8 years ago
So frustrating! Hope at least the tops can be saved? =(

I used 3/4 of a spray bottle insecticide (Pyrethrins and Piperonyl Butoxide) last weekend. One plant is pretty much toast, but the others seem clean still.

These chemicals seemed less harsh on my succulents than the isopropyl alcohol, except for with my Crassula tricolour that dropped two leaves (it is a fairly small plant).
aztcqn
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I know it's such a frustrating experience with mealz. I hate them. I just discovered big fat well fed mealies on a clump of great growing sedum spurium. Iwent and doused all 70 pots of succulents with another round of systemic and a topping of pyrethin for the mealies.

I've had leaves turn translucent and fall off if the next days sun was warm after a spray......

Your plants don't look too bad. They should recover.

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By Annie Thornton

Pavers and unthirsty plants replace Kentucky bluegrass in a Menlo Park landscape for a family of 4

EARTH DAY The Case for Losing the Traditional Lawn

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

Work less, help the environment and foster connections by just saying no to typical turf

HOLIDAYS Houzz Call: Show Us Your Christmas Tree!

By Mary Jo Bowling

How lovely are your branches? Post a picture and share your stories

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