A scaled floor plan would help - it looks from the drawing like the doors of the freezer and fridge open into the end of the counter run housing the range? I'd be inclined to put the refrigerator (or refrigerator and freezer) all the way to the right on the same run as the sink, and move the sink over to the left (water source should be between the fridge and the range).

I know you didn't ask, but I have to say that based on the uses you want for your island, I would do away with the two raised ends -- they will really limit the functionality.

Just some thoughts:

Why do you say the sink is too far from the range? When you cook do you typically take things directly from sink to range? I think it's a decent layout with the sink for prep, then moving the prep (chopping etc) onto the island and then onto the range. The sink and dishwasher are a good cleanup zone, far from the prep zone. I think splitting the columns is a good idea. You can stick the freezer on the other side of the dishwasher or moving both to that side - that way if someone is getting water, or a snack they are not in your main prep zone and you have more counter space between the sink and the range. Where is your microwave going if you have one?

I'm not sure I like the unlevel island. In your inspiration pic the one side is raised and serves as kind of a buffet but it leaves the other side at standard counter level for all the prep. (Also note how far their sink is from the range). What do you envision the utility of the raised side by the sink? If your island will have a lower than counter height middle, then it will be difficult to prep on it.

If possible, post a birds eye view with measurements. It may be your aisles are too narrow as well.

Any chance you can lay out your plan on some graph paper with measurements to scale and post that. The reason I'm asking is because when you mentioned that your island was 4' x 9' caught me by surprise, I would have thought it was much smaller. To me that indicates that everything is out of scale and so it's hard to know how to place things.

The OP indicated in her notes that she IS NOT keeping the raised bar of the island at the sink end.

When you say "facing a wall," does that mean a wall with no window? Are there no exterior walls in this kitchen?

In general, to get good help on this forum, it is best if you post a 2D floor plan of the ENTIRE FLOOR your kitchen is on (not just a floor plan of the kitchen) and have that 2D floor plan drawn on graph paper were 1 sq. = 1 sq. foot.

Here is an example of the type of floor plan that is easiest for us to understand and make suggestions about:

However, here is a quick and very crude idea for you based on what you've given us. Your island would have more room for the sink + dishwasher + counter space if it were longer. Here is a way to make it longer:

If the goal is make the island as long as possible, I'd actually make it a peninsula against the empty wall in my drawing, so the island could be the width of one walkway longer.

However, in terms of people's seating at the island and having room to do stuff even though there is a sink in the island, that is more a matter of island depth than island length. You'd want an island that is 4-5 feet deep. Without measurements of your space and surrounding areas, I can't say if you have room for that.

Also, just a note, in terms of base cabinets, you wouldn't lose any storage by having the sink/DW in the island because that stuff is either going to take that space in the island or in the perimeter. So if you move them to the island, where they were in the perimeter is storage. Or if you have them in the perimeter, where they were in the island is storage. Your base cabinet space is identical either way.

In fact, you might get more storage out of putting the sink/DW in the island because on the perimeter, you'd want to have short cabinets above the sink or no cabinets above the sink. But if you put the sink the island, those perimeter uppers can be full height.

Also, you should consider getting two dishwashers. With four kids, it makes a lot of sense.

"The other option is to put the sink and dishwasher on the island. I like
this idea because then I am part of the family while I am at the sink.
But by the time I add sink, dishwasher and pullout trash can the island
has very little drawer bank space and very little counter space left :( ... The island is big. It's 4' by 9'."

You are exchanging drawer space on the island for the space that the sink, DW, and trash pull-out would have taken on the other wall--you still have the space. The only counter space you are losing on the island will be the space occupied by the sink--DW and trash are below the counter. If you mean a drying rack will take up space, maybe you can find one that fits in the sink, or as Jillius suggested, put in a second DW, or a DW drawer.

If your sink is under-mounted, you can leave a positive reveal, and have a cutting board made to fit, so that when the sink is not is use, it can be used as counter space. With 4 kids, I think you can benefit from an extra sink, and an extra prep area. Before you know it the kids will be old enough to help in the kitchen. Teach them to clean the sink, too.

I am doing away with the raised side of the island on the sink side, so that side will be same height as the rest of the island. The other side will be raised like in the picture I posted.

I should have said that there is a door on the range side of the wall that leads to quite a large pantry (the door is between the fridge and the range walls).

I feel that the sink is too far because I have to sort of walk around the island to get to it and we do eat a lot of pasta (i.e. big pot of boiling water to carry around and four kids).

In terms of working space, I do want to keep both the sink and the fridge portion of the fridge/freezer beside the range as I like to grab things from the fridge as I cook and it would bother me if I had to trek around the island to fetch things constantly while I am at the range (I don't usually have all ingredients out at the same time when I cook).

I don't like the idea of 2 dishwashers anymore than I do about 2 sinks in the kitchen. I would rather hand wash dishes as I go and have one dishwasher than load and unload 2 dishwashers everyday :)

When I say I like the kitchen island storage/drawer banks, I mean I like to have my cooking utensils, spices, mixer bowls, baking supplies, etc all in one place. If I move the sink to the island, all these things will now be stored on the wall cabinets and I prefer things close by the prep/cooking area.

I would love some thoughts on placement of sink on the island. Those of you who like to be part of the action and have a sink on the wall - does it bother you that you have your back to the house/family?

I don't have time to draw up the kitchen as I have to come up with a plan today. Our custom home plans were supposed to be sent to engineering and I decided I wanted to redo the layout of the kitchen. I'm not in anyone's good books right now, including hubby's! I'm sending the layout we have from the builder, hopefully this will give you more info. Sorry, the dimensions are a little hard to read.

Oh! And the dining/breakfast room is our only eating space. There is no other formal dining room. We have a lovely backyard and this room is mostly glass and extends into the yard. The window above the sink looks into neighbours front yard. I don't care where that window is placed. It doesn't have to be over sink.

I do mean the dish rack. There are always dishing drying so I wouldn't want to put the dish rack in the sink as then I can't wash dishes in it. I.m planning on a one bowl 30" farmhouse sink. I home school 2 kids and dishes pile up constantly. Breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner :(

The teen girls do help with clean-up but I would rather they help me clean the main sink that the extra one leaving me to still clean up the main sink! lol

Saida, ask for an extension, don't be pressured into finalizing your kitchen layout until you are happy with it. I'm sure you will get some helpful suggestions here, but you will need a day or so at least.

I think it's important to have a sink face a window or placed in an island so you face out. It's just my personal hang up that I don't like a sink facing a wall. I also would love 2 sinks if I had the room, so clearly everyone has their own preferences. Just take the time to make sure you get the things you need and want in your new kitchen.

If you want clean-up (as well as prep and home schooling space) on the
island, and adamantly do not want a second sink, I'd lose the raised
counter. It's just taking up space that has better uses, as per your
description of the way you want to use the kitchen.

But--you will spend more time prepping and cooking than you will scraping plates and loading a DW. If you want the dish rack left out all the time, and if you must keep the raised counter on the island, a prep sink is the best option. When you want to start a meal, it doesn't matter whether the dishes in the clean-up area are clean, dirty, draining or put away. Same with home schooling projects--dishes are on the other wall, out of the way. And when you want to prep and cook a meal, you are more involved with the family if you have a sink on the island. This plan does not involve moving anything--just adding plumbing, as you would if you're considering putting the clean-up sink on the island. But the day is still young--I hope someone else will have a better plan. Good luck with the builder and with hubby. ;)

I think mama goose is right -- they way that you describe using the kitchen and the size of your family leads to the 2 sink solution. But you are really concerned that having 2 sinks will mean double the amount of cleaning. I don't have 2 sinks so I can't comment on that, but those of you who do... how does it work?

I would think that it doesn't cause double the amount of dishwashing and cleaning. Maybe a little more, but not double. After all, you are still using the same number of dishes, just cleaning them in different sinks. And mostly the clean up is happening in one of them. And you would probably rinse/clean out the sink after prepping and also after dishwashing, so again, same steps but in two different locations.

would you consider putting your garbage under your sink? that will free up a whole cabinet for storage. we currently have an apron sink and a garbage can under it fits fine.

I agree with jillius that a second dishwasher, or maybe just a single dishdrawer might help?

also, you mentioned you need space for a dish drying rack, i put in a drying rack cabinet above my apron sink and we love it, so we are trying to work it in our next kitchen design too. all the drying dishes are hidden away and don't take up valuable counter space. you do have to give up a wall cabinet though..

Perhaps we are misunderstanding. When you say you don't want a second sink to clean, do you mean clean all the dishes in the sink or clean the actual physical sink? The latter makes more sense with your desire not to have a second sink because it would cause extra sink-cleaning. The former doesn't make sense because your amount of dishes would be identical and usually just one of the sinks is the cleanup sink.

If the latter is your concern, look up discussions of silgranit sinks on GW. Apparently they are a dream to maintain and don't really need cleaning.

I was referring to the latter. I'm a little OCD with sinks. I don't like bits off food in the drain. So everyday maintenance would mean cleaning the sink of any debris left over from prep and then there is also the deep cleaning every once in a while.

Well, it sounds as if both a garbage disposal and a silgranit sink would make your life a lot easier.

I would leave the frig and freezer columns on the sink wall, but would split them up, putting one on each end, thereby adding symmetry to that wall, or if need/want extra counter space, you may want to consider putting the freezer in the pantry if you have the room to do so. Since you wash quite a few things by hand, you could use a 2nd DW as a large drying rack, thereby eliminating a dish rack sitting on the counter, and then you would have the extra DW capacity when you need it. I would also be inclined to leave the island as an open space.

An update:

ediblekitchen, I did ask for an extension and told everyone to back off! :)

I've decided to keep the island clear. I feel much happier about this decision. I tried putting the main sink on the island and I didn't like it. My gut was telling me to get it off! So I did. I've moved the sink so it is centred in the isle (where the fridge/freezer was) so it's just a few quick steps from the range. No need for prep sink.

I moved the fridge further away from the range - close to where the sink was in the old position. I thought hard about my cooking habits and I nearly always have to prep stuff first before it goes on the range (mostly veggies) and the lsland is right there. Also, The fridge is used mostly for breakfast and snacks, not so much when I am cooking. So if I have to choose, it makes more sense to have the sink closer to the range than the fridge. It also keeps the kids away from the cooking side as they often go hunting in there for snacks.

I also did separate the fridge and freezer columns and have them placed with a decent sized counter between them. It will essentially serve as a breakfast prep area: blender, smoothies, protein shakes, etc and the cereals are close by there as well:)

michoumonster, never heard of a drying cabinet! Will look into that. I also like the idea of the dishwasher drawer. Has anyone used them? Do they work well? I don't want a second dishwasher, but would consider a drawer if it doesn't take up too much cabinet space.

Feeling much better about the configuration. Thanks for all the suggestions. You guys have been great!

One storage solution to consider is putting drawer stacks next to your range (nearly all of our bases are drawer stacks except the sink base and trash pullout and one full height for cutting boards, large sheets, etc). You could put the sink in the island, and then make the area with the window your "prep" area with a smaller prep sink (maybe have a built in butcher block/cutting board put underneath the window). Our sink is in the corner of our kitchen and looks through a cutout and out our atrium window bank. It's nice to see "out". However, with your setup, I would definitely put my sink in the island.

Definitely have as many drawers as possible. Threads on drawer bases.

I couldn't get measurements from the plan you posted, so I'm guessing about the amount of space available in this drawing. Is this m/l your idea?

It seems to me that you'll have two cave-like work spaces on the back wall, with only 24" or so of uninterrupted counter space. The only nice stretch of counter is on the island, with no water source. I don't know which direction your fridge will open, but if it's as drawn, imagine opening the fridge, using the island, or the counter to the right, as landing space, taking your produce to the sink to be washed, dripping the washed items across the aisle to the island to be prepped there. If a lettuce leaf or a leek has a bit of grit that you missed with the first rinse, go back to the sink to rinse it, then back to the island. It's fine if you don't want a sink in the island, as long as you have sufficient prep space at the only available sink. (I don't have a sink in my island, and I really like it.) A sink with an integrated cutting board would increase the prep area, but also imagine a dish rack taking up counter space on one side of the sink.

Having a tall column in the middle of a stretch of work space is something that most of us would remodel to correct. Also, the column on the right will need filler to allow the door to open sufficiently, or you'll need to cut back the stub wall. I do think that having the fridge out of the corner is an improvement--as you mentioned, it should be on the periphery of the work area, so that no one needs to cross your work spaces to access it.

It's true that we don't know how you work in the kitchen--but we don't want you to make an expensive mistake. Can you cook in this kitchen? Of course, but it could be much more functional, and a better plan could save you many steps, and hours. I'm linking some good planning information, in case you haven't read it:

New to Kitchens? Read me first.

NKBA guidelines

Jillius posted a plan with the range on the exterior wall--would you consider that? It would be easier to vent the hood to the outside, and this plan would put the range in a more protected area, where no one would need to walk by it to get to the sink. If the family is present, and you're prepping on the island to interact with them, you'd have about the same number of steps as in your plan, but you'd have a nice prep space available between the sink and range, for quick cooking-prep tasks, or for a helper.

This rough plan puts the snack/breakfast area on the outside corner. The depth of the counter and cabinets could be increased to match the fridge, leaving more space for your blender/juicer (similar to the base cabinet in the following pic).

If you keep the fridge/freezer on the back wall, you might consider having them side by side, then the DW, sink, and a wider prep area between the sink and pantry door, close to the range. You could also make those counters a few inches deeper--pantry door trim permitting. If the back wall is significantly wider than I've drawn, or you don't need the filler, you could have more space between the fridge and sink, making the clean-up area a little more open.

Saida, a drying cabinet is just a cabinet put over the sink with a dish rack in the bottom instead of the regular wooden bottom. the wet dishes are hidden behind the cabinet doors and can drip down into the sink.

dish drying cabinet

there were a few other ideas on how to do a base cabinet that mama_goose posted in my kitchen fireplace thread, linked here

link to thread with drying cab ideas, just scroll towards bottom

good luck!

desertsteph, I agree. Kids do need to learn to clean. My 13 and 16 yr old girls have been doing their own laundry since they were 10 and they take turns cleaning their shared bathroom. They do other stuff too- like take out the garbage and vacuum, etc. The younger two (6 and 8) empty the dish washer every morning. I'm good with that arrangement for now. I'm a little particular about the kitchen and prefer to clean the sink area myself. That may change when we move into our new home. We'll see.

Eric, I have gone with drawer banks everywhere with the exception of 4 smallish uppers.

Mamagoose, thank you so much for the detailed analysis of my layout. After I posted I spent several hours on the site and decided that Jillius may have a point about the two dishwashers (I still don't want a prep sink). I had seen pictures with two dishwashers and actually mentioned it to my husband in a really, who does that? tone of voice. Well, after all my reading, I guess I do ;)

It totally makes sense. I was against having the sink against the wall because I would have my back to the house. And I also wanted a clear island. Well, with two dishwashers I'll spend way less time at the sink AND I get to keep the island clear. I'm convinced it's the right move. Thanks Jillius for pointing me in that direction!

I am now down to two different layouts. One with the fridge/freezer columns side by side against the back wall flushed to the right side. And the sink is (under the window) flanked by dishwashers on either side. One will be a full DW the other a single tall drawer. However, Mamagoose, your 3D depiction of that option has ruled it out, I think. I feel like the columns make that corner of the kitchen look too heavy. So, I'm thinking plan B which is to place a column on each side of the wall instead. That will give me 40" on the left side of the sink and 25" on the right side for prep. The window is ceneterd behind the short side of the island so there is prep space right behind the sink too, if I need it. Another variation of this option is to leave about 20" from the left wall (and put drawer banks in here) before I place one of the columns. I'm thinking it might be a good spot to park my kitchen aid stand mixer. It also reduces the distance between the fridge and freezer. My husband loves everything to be symmetrical so he prefers the first option. I'm still on the fence...

I would love to place the range on the outside wall but the island will be much, much shorter. This way it measures 9ft by 4ft. If I have to turn it around, it would have to shrink to 5ft by 4ft. I really want a longer island. I also really wanted a dedicated breakfast prep area so I may still play around with that option. Mamagoose, would it be ok put the range close to the pantry door like in your picture? I may be able to play around a little more if I did that? The room dimensions by the way are 164" by 178. That's from the window to the end of the island.

Thanks for all the feedback! I have to finalize these plans tonight and would welcome any additional advice/feedback :)

I'm sorry, I didn't find your post until now. I'm not sure what you're asking about having the range close to the pantry. You won't have through traffic from the pantry, and your pantry door swings in (on the plan you posted), so I don't see a problem. The range has more than the minimum recommended landing space on each side. I was estimating 13' on the top wall, so almost 15' is great--you can move the range farther from the pantry door if you'd prefer.

Since your husband prefers symmetry, I think the plan with a column at each end of the wall, and the range as drawn, will be your better option. I'd put the freezer column beside the pantry, so that your family will have easier access to the fridge. Just make sure that the doors have enough space to open fully.

Mothergoose, thanks for getting back to me. I've been playing with the plans non-stop for three days and honestly, I can't think straight anymore!

I have a couple of plans drawn out and my husband keeps telling me he much prefers the one with the freezer and fridge flushed on both ends of the wall :) so I think I will go ahead with that plan.

I was planning to have a matching cabinet on the end of the island (sink side) to match the other end only without the raised butchers block. I thought it would be a good place to keep our cereal boxes and peanut butter, etc. Basically, breakfast stuff. I'd like to keep the uppers to a minimum - just a couple of glass cabinets (on either side of the sink) to hold mugs and my mason jars. I'd prefer to keep the window wall mostly open. The problem is the trash pull-out instead of being on the corner of the island behind the sink would be tucked into the island by a foot. Not ideal. Any ideas where I could better place that trash pull-out?

Also, I am stumped when it comes to placing the microwave. Hubby does't want anything on the range wall to mess with the symmetry :( I suggested the microwave drawer in the island but he doesn't like that idea either. Do you see any alternative place for it? Otherwise, I think I will have to make hime choose between symmetry or no microwave!

Thanks so much for your input. It really helped clarify things for me.

Make the cabinets on the sink side of the island the standard 24" deep, with a trash pullout on the right side, and a MW drawer on the left (as you are facing the island). You can scoop debris from the island prep off the end, directly into the open trash. The MW will be close to the fridge, the trash will be close to your prep area beside the sink, and hubby won't be able to see either one, unless he is doing dishes. ;)

12" pullout could hold cereal boxes, peanut butter, whatever your kids need for breakfast, on the top shelf, with cereal bowls on the lower shelf. The drawers under the MW could hold dishes for easy unloading from the DW.

Option for 12" pullout -- which is expensive, but you could ask your cabinet maker about converting a 24" 1-drawer/2-door cabinet.

Yikes! I placed boxes everywhere last night and the distance between the range and sink is 9ft! That's SO far. The fridge is also 8ft from the freezer. And the range from the fridge is really far, around from the island. I sort of knew about the fridge situation but the sink distance to the range took me by surprise. That's far to be going with a pot of boiling water. Do people do 9ft between those two? I really, really don't want a prep sink :(

But...I do really like the idea of the of the regular 12" pull-out cabinet on the side of the island. That solves my dish placement issue as well. It would be perfect to unload cereal bowls, snack bowls and little pates onto that side.

You NEED a prep sink. Whether or not you want it.

Yes, you have said over and over that you don't want a prep sink. But it's still not entirely clear why. And you seem to really want a sink near your range for draining pasta, etc. Do you know someone who has a large kitchen who has a prep sink? Maybe you could spend some time in a kitchen that does to see how it feels or looks. And that might help you decide if you could make it work for you.

I don't know ANYONE with a prep sink. Maybe that is the problem. I'm in Canada. I wonder if we just don't do prep sinks here :|

Maybe I should start a trend. Anyone here from Canada with a prep sink?

I have a prep sink as do many of my friends who are redoing kitchens. I use mine all the time and can't imagine my kitchen without it. It is used for prep and the other sink is used as a clean-up sink. The kitchen was planned as such and works as planned.

When we entertain large groups (especially family) it allows two groups of people to be working in the kitchen at the same time. When someone brings something and they need to prepare it they can have their own sink while I still have mine to do what I need to do. There is no pushing. I can't imagine my kitchen without one.
I'm on the Canadian west coast.

Sorry again, I was side-tracked with real life--it's so inconvenient when that happens. ;)

Using the pic I posted above, of the fridge/MW combo, I extended it to show the range and sink on the top wall. That's the only plan that will keep you from trucking pots of water across the expanse, unless you have a sink in the island, and then you're still crossing an aisle.

What is the little room next to the pantry marked "computer"?

in your picture above how much clearance do you think would be required to open the fridge/freezer columns? Mine are 30" wide each.

Jillius, that is a 7 x 9 ft space for a desk, the computer, printer, charging area, etc. I homeschool, so I would also store all my homeschool stuff in there. The entrance is from the hallway and the plan is to have a large barn door to cover up the mess in there :)

What about this?

• I stole a little bit of space from the computer room in order to recess the fridge and freezer fully into that wall. This creates a little more room to turn the island 90 degrees and still have it be a decent length.

• With the island turned 90 degrees, you also have a view of the family room while using the island. I assume that the dining room will be empty most of the time, so looking at the family room (as opposed to the dining room) will be nice/more interactive with the family.

• With the island turn 90 degrees, it is also now parallel to the longest continuous row of kitchen cabinets/counters/appliances in the kitchen, which will make the island handier and more useful.

• The island has a table pushed up against it. Like this:
  

  

  This will still give your girls plenty of space to do their projects in the kitchen, but they will have the added benefit of being able to sit in standard-height chairs, which is more comfortable. And their work space will be slightly separated from yours, so you aren't getting cooking splatters on their stuff.

• The range is on an exterior wall now.

• The clean-up sink is close to the range, so you don't have to have the prep sink you don't want.

• I would suggest getting a clean-up sink where a cutting board can be place over half of the sink. This is both handy (juices of things you are cutting run directly into the sink), and it would extend the length of your primary prep counter between the range and the sink.

• The refrigerator is accessible both from inside the cooking zone and outside. That will be handy for people cooking and make sure snackers don't have to walk into the cooking zone.

I also live in Canada and have two sinks. Our island is 10 X 5 and I couldn't imagine NOT having the prep sink on the island. With 4 children a prep sink will be a god send, believe me, you need a prep sink. I have also noticed a local trend in redesigned kitchens and larger new kitchens for 2 sinks. I am in Nova Scotia. Having to clean a second sink is not a good reason to limit the functionality it would bring to your kitchen.

Wow, Jillius, that's what I love about this forum, seeing what creative solutions people come up. Even though it's not my kitchen, it's really interesting to see this creative process.

One suggestion... maybe swap the refrigerator and freezer position and put the microwave station next to the refrigerator as Mama Goose showed.

Thanks, edible kitchen! I actually considered what you are suggesting, and I definitely think it is a viable option. But I was thinking the microwave could be in the island (on a shelf, built-in, or a drawer) on the short end opposite the fridge. Then you still get the microwave handy to the fridge/freezer landing spot (for when you take out leftovers and want to pop them in the microwave), plus two benefits:

• The fridge stays a semi-straight walk from both the sink and the range (no real island barrier).
• If you don't have anything else next to the fridge/freezer on the kitchen side, the extra space next to them kind of creates perfect nook on the computer room side for built-in shelves/drawers to hold the printer and home schooling supplies.

Jillius, I must be missing something - I can't figure out where the fridge/freezer is located??

nevermind! I just looked again at the plan you posted above your last post.

I like the 2 surfaces! In fact, I have been looking at kitchens with 2 islands all day :) I like to work uncluttered and in my original plan the island is HUGE. I can just see myself trying to keep it clear of crumbs and clutter all day! Much easier to keep my smaller prep island clean during the day and clear up the second island with seating (once) after dinner. I even get to face the house when doing dishes :) Love it!

I can see us using the island with seating to do the baking as my kids like to help with that. I think I would prefer a second island though - as apposed to a table mainly due to the extra storage since the prep island is taken over by the sink and dishwashers.

Jillius, unfortunately, I can't move the wall for the computer room. We're building a modular home (it comes in pieces and is put together on site). I already asked and I've been told that this wall can't be moved back. I guess that's one of the disadvantages of a modular home.

So...any ideas on how to fit it all in without moving the fridge/freezer back?

Also, hubby is really big on symmetry. Almost OCD about it! So I'm going to have to have to somehow centre the range and the sink with the prep island .

Here is the kitchen that inspired the two island theory for me.

Locust Hills Drive Residence · More Info

Your question--in your picture above how much clearance do you think would be required
to open the fridge/freezer columns? Mine are 30" wide each.

I would guess 30" + standing room, from the fridge box, or about the same amount of space for the oven door in your drawing. I've been thinking that each column was 24".

Jillius, I am in love with that green and yellow kitchen!

Since you like that idea, I wonder if it isn't worth it to double-check that the modular home people couldn't accommodate recessing the fridge and freezer specifically? Maybe there was some issue with moving the whole wall as you originally asked, but moving just part of it is possible? Maybe they would let you recess just the fridge, and the freezer could go in the pantry?

I know diddly about building modular homes, but I know often when someone says a wall can't be moved in an existing structure, it's more that just part of the wall can't move. And it's easier to flush out the specifics of your limitations when you have something specific in mind that you want to do (like recessing the fridge) vs. having a general question about whether or not the wall could move.

Doesn't hurt to ask, right? Maybe you'll get lucky.

Also, just FYI, it is typically that a symmetrical layout is not a functional one, and vice versa. For example, this is a very common symmetrical layout with the sink and range both centered and lined up:

This causes two problems:

1) The counters are all chopped up into small pieces. If you look, all the stretches of counter you have to work on in this kitchen are roughly 2' wide. That would be IMMENSELY frustrating to get anything done on.

On any given counter, if you center your range/sink, it divides the counter on either side into two small pieces. Whereas if you place the range/sink off-center, you get one longer stretch of counter and one shorter stretch. This latter situation is WAY more functional because you can actually get something done on the longer stretch.

2) The sink and range are directly back-to-back. This means a person at the sink will be bumping into a person at the range, and both will be crowding each other. When the sink and range are staggered in the kitchen, a person at the sink and a person at the range will not be in each other's way.

It's not as if you can't have some things centered or lined up in a kitchen, but you will curse perfect symmetry any time you try to DO anything.

You might need to have a talk with your husband about maybe getting his symmetrical kicks in from other parts of the house where it is not at the expense of function.

Jillius, thank you so much for that last post. I spoke to him (actually made him read your post) and he has conceded that I can ignore symmetry in the kitchen. That really help to shift things around to where I would like them to be! He doesn't like the idea of 2 islands though so that idea has been scrapped :(

Oh, I'm so glad that was helpful! Is he open to the table-pushed-against-the-island idea? That gets you more or less the same thing, but it's packaged differently enough that it might be more acceptable?

Now that things have a changed a bit for you (you have more time than you thought when you originally posted, you are now intending to get two dishwashers, you are playing with the idea of a differently-shaped island configuration, you aren't constricted by symmetry), you might consider starting a new thread with updated kitchen concerns/requirements/answers to questions posed in this thread and a floor plan of the WHOLE FLOOR on graph paper where 1 sq. = 1 sq. ft.

You will definitely get the best help that way.

ok. I will do. Thanks!