It would be helpful if you could take a close up, focused picture of some of the small, stunted looking growth shoots.

It's clearly not dead, but it definitely doesn't look happy.

Are these photos current? Even in Scotland, I'd expect roses to have leafed out by now. Did it leaf out properly last year?

Lacking further info, and bearing in mind I'm pretty new to this, I'd guess either 'spring dwarf' or more likely, one of your neighbours have sprayed herbicide or something similar and it's drifted onto your rose.

Was there any Roundup used around this rose?

What Kublakan and Seil said . . . And clear closeups of some of the stunted growth would be really helpful.

fduk_gw UK zone 3 (US zone 8)

Hi there! Thank you for your reply. Yes some roses are even blooming now, my rose is not :( The photos are the most recent photos. Here are some more.(I am a rubbish photographer! Sorry)

@kublakan

Hi, is it a pesticide? I don't really know to be honest.

@seil zone 6b MI

Hi there, I don't know the rose's name. The rose bloomed from Spring all the way to autumn. The winter was harsh but not too bad. Other people's roses seemed fine. Here is a picture when it bloomed two years ago.

Herbicide seems the most likely cause. It's almost dead and I doubt it will recover from such severe damage.

Alisha, from the close up shots I would suggest that the rose has had some sort of herbicide sprayed on it at least a year ago if not two. The deformed looking leaves/shoots and bud growth indicate a hormonal type of herbicide, most likely Glysophate(round up). In some of the later shots I can see some younger canes coming from the base. If this rose was one of mine I would cut the entire rose back to the base/stump. What will happen is the stump part will push out new shoots, some of these might still have some of the residual spray within the plant, but is my opinion that your rose will grow out of it in maybe a year, possibly the second spring/Summer from now. The reason I say to cut all the existing canes off is so no more chemical can get to the base/stump part where the unseen canes will develop from. I hope this helps.

Regards David.

I think I'd go on and prune off the really thick canes, too. Leave the thinner, younger canes coming from down low. That'll be pruning off most of the bush, but it also leaves less growth for the roots to have to support. It's a gorgeous rose; I hope it makes it!

OR you might just dig it up, and start over with a new rose -- which would be a ton easier, unless this one has sentimental significance.

Because, to be honest, I agree that it looks as though something like Roundup is the problem.

If it is from a herbicide, I would expect from the type of new growth that it is already in the soil. If so planting a new rose in the old soil may not solve anything.

Overspray is not the only way glyphosate can reach your roses. The Round-Up can leave the roots of a treated weed, pass through the soil, and be picked up by the roots of your nearby rose bushes.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11104-007-9387-1# AND http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S116103010900063X

AND

The glyphosate could remain bound in the soil for long time periods.

"Glyphosate [(N-(phosphonomethyl)glycine)] is a widely used herbicide and it is known to compete for the same sorption sites in soil as phosphorus. Persistence and losses of glyphosate were monitored in a field with low phosphorus status and possible correlation between glyphosate and phosphorus leaching losses was studied. Glyphosate and its metabolite AMPA (aminomethyl phosphoric acid) residues in soil samples were analyzed after a single application in autumn. Twenty months after the application the residues of glyphosate and AMPA in the topsoil (0�25 cm) corresponded to 19% and 48%, respectively, of the applied amount of glyphosate, and traces of glyphosate and AMPA residues were detected in deeper soil layers (below 35 cm). These results indicate rather long persistence for glyphosate in boreal soils."

http://www.springerlink.com/content/w1461w60366lk018/

Then, when you add fertilizer with P; the glyphosate could be released.

"The results suggest that re-mobilization of glyphosate may represent an additional transfer pathway for glyphosate to non-target plants which is strongly influenced by soil characteristics such as P fixation potential, content of plant-available iron, pH, cation exchange capacity, sand content and soil organic matter."

http://www.springerlink.com/content/t7h6601566432076/

ALSO

Round-Up can cause problems even if sprayed last summer or fall. A quote from Roses: Cultural Practices and Weed Control: "Roses are also very sensitive to glyphosate (Roundup and many other trade names), which can be absorbed through the green stems in addition to the leaves. Glyphosate damage may appear at bud break the following spring after a summer or fall application that contacts leaves or stems; symptoms include a proliferation of small, narrow shoots and leaves."

I hate the stuff, and I wish it was outlawed.

jerijen, you may find the following link of interest:

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&authuser=0&gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&hl=en&authuser=0&q=glyphosate+ban

Hi there, thank you for all your replies.

Yes the rose is very meaningful to my mum, this was a present from my grandparents to my mum and my grandparents both passed away last year. Maybe it was just a coincide but in the same year, the rose stopped growing and eventually turned out to be like this. The rose constantly reminds her of my grandparents and she always blames herself for not taking care of it properly.

Therefore I would like to try pruning before I give up completely. I will empty all the soil and buy new composts. Can anyone please tell me how much I should trim? I have already pruned once this year, should I continue to prune? When is the best time to prune? Should I prune the thick canes or the thinner canes? After pruning, should I apply fertilizer? To be honest, do you think it is still possible to save it?

I will post a picture of it maybe this weekend.

Thank you for all your help, I really appreciate it!

Hi there, for some reason, I can't upload the pictures.

Can anyone just tell me approximately how much I should cut and is it okay for me to prune the rose now?

Thank you in advance

Alisha, if it was me I would go back to the stump as I mentioned prior. It is my opinion that if you save it it will be doing it this way, if it is herbicide damage, by cutting it back to that point it might save the plant, if you cut it back half way the chemical may have already got past that point. If you do cut it back use a lot of liquid fertilizer on it so it pushes out lots of new growth from the base.

Hi David, thank you for your reply. Can I prune it now?(summer) or should I wait until August?

Hello there, I am planning to buy a new rose and plant it at where the balloon is. Do you think it would be okay or do you think it would damage the old rose?

The reason that I am thinking of buying a new rose is because I don't want my front door to look very empty but I don't want to give up the old rose too.

I will change the soils and apply fertilizers etc.

Hi Alisha

I have standard roses that have done the same as your rose, I don't think it was caused by round up, I have asked many professionals and all seem unsure. I was advised to try to put down some manure which I have done now, although this will take a while to get into the soil, but worth a try and maybe they will grow for next year. My roses are ice berg, standards, looking just like yours with little growth. How is your rose, did you cut it right back like you have been advised to do? If any one has any ideas please let us know.

@hturhill

I have trimmed the rose, nothing happening so far :(

I have planted a smaller yellow rose next to the old one.

Hi, just wondering if you have pictures of it now? After a month, there should have been some growth ... like others I thought it looked like the herbicide damage that I had this year but those roses have since recovered. They recovered as soon as the next month so hopefully your rose has some signs of more growth.

I don't know what the weather is like over there, but I would compare your rose to other roses in your area to see if yours is truly abnormal. If you have a rose society try and send pictures, have them look at it. Maybe even ask them how you can propagate it somehow so you can have a piece of it still.

Generally, you don't want to keep disturbing the plant and it's roots so if you really want to keep this particular rose, maybe enclose it as if you were doing a planter box and put good potting mix ... hopefully the part you insulate with good potting mix will spur the plant to root out (roots are source of growth), and this way you're just adding stuff on top without bothering the roots that have already been compromised.

Good luck!

Thanks for the replies, I have uploaded the above pictures, I have 5 all doing the same, 6 years old and have always been beautiful. There is still lots of green on all roses, I've tried everything, manure and Rose soil put on top only not to disturb roots. Will wait till next year and see what happens, has anyone had this kind of growth and by the following year has the Rose returned back to normal?

thanks

That feathery growth sure looks like cases of severe Roundup (glyphosate) damage I have seen. Woody plants can recover in time from herbicide, but this is so severe, I doubt it. Plants cannot build energy unless they have green leaves in the sun.

That is exactly what I was going to say. Those odd growths will not become normal and I would prune to below where they start. hturhill, it takes a long time usually. how often do you water?

I have been watering every couple of days as it's been quite warm here, not over watering just keeping moist. Do you think I should take them out and pot them? Cutting the growth like you suggested. A couple of Rose growers have said it looks like round up damage, I really appreciate your replies, thanks so much.

Do you have any idea how these roses got sprayed with RoundUp or some similar weed killer? If this keeps happening, you will not be able to grow any roses at all. I would first try to figure out what happened, to prevent it in the future.

Jackie

And I do wish you would consider drastically pruning back the roses--nearly to the ground. From what I can see above, you are just nibbling at the edges, while we are recommending major surgery on the rose--in order to stimulate growth from the base.

Quit worrying about the extras like fertilizer. For now, major surgery (practically to the ground) and keep them watered (but don't drown them).

Later, like next spring, you can worry about things like fertilizer.

Good luck. It takes courage to apply such extreme remedies, but when your roses are in such an extreme condition, that is what is called for!

Kate

Yes I will need the courage to prune these roses, they are standard roses, but I think your right I will cut them right back, does it not matter that it's summer?

I have thought about how and if these roses have been damaged, I can only think we used roundup on our block paving on the driveway, but this has been done every year.

Thanks everyone for your help, any advice is always helpful, I will check this page every day. Will cut back roses on Monday, shall I cut all the feather like growth off too? Still has green healthy branches, as I cut they are still moist and alive. Hopefully this will like you said stimulate growth from the base. Will have to wait till next year.

Thanks to you all

Many of the RoundUp and pruning advice replies that you have received appear to apply to cases where the RoundUp problem started due to spray reaching the outer leaves or canes(drift). They are ignoring the possibility that the RoundUp entered through the roots.

I suspect Henry is right, the severity and non-recovery of any normal growth looks like you won't be able to get back your rose (damage has been done to roots, not just top growth).

The Roundup damage I experienced was only due to drift onto the plant, and not the soil (since I'm in pots) so my roses were able to recover within the month.

Looks like you should probably pull those roses out and replace with other plants, ensuring that herbicides are not in contact at all with the soil and the plant. If you're treating the pavement, it might be seeping into the ground soil? Maybe consider building a raised bed or keeping plants in pots in that area.

You can try and see if they'll recover by moving them to pots, but that would disturb the roots again, and might effectively just kill all signs. Pulling them out will also give you an idea of root health, so if you do decide to do that, could you post pictures?

Good luck!

Hey! Try this. Spray the rose bush with a mix of 4 cups water, 2 tbs of liquid soap, 1 clove of garlic. I sprayed it on to my rose bushes that looked soooo sad and I sprayed it like 2-3 times a week and now they have beautiful foliage and sooooo many buds. Even the thorns look cool, they are soft to the touch. It's a Mexican ranch secret.

Soil type may affect it somewhat, but I find it unlikely that the roundup was absorbed through the soil. glyphosate bonds like crazy to soil particles and in clay soils especially is extremely hard even under lab situations to extract it, usually takes a strong base, and water is extremely poor at pulling it out of the soil. It can leach from the roots of other plants, but in such low amounts that it couldn't cause the damage we are seeing here. I am sorry, but these plants were either sprayed directly or the affect of drift. I have worked on too many field trials and result demonstrations on the affects of glyphosate to believe this is from being absorbed through the soil. I mean I have seen roses have gotten drift on them that didn't react this badly. Lots of people like to respond that they are careful around roses and other plants with roundup and such, but I am sorry if you are spraying you are likely getting drift on some level. My former boss's suggestion for using glyphosate around plants you didn't want to kill was to use a paint brush and lightly brush it on. He didn't trust spraying to be safe enough. The man had a 5 acre garden that never had roundup damage so I would take his word for it.

Since this thread is from last season, it would be interesting to get an update from the thread starter.

Regarding kingcobbtx9b comments above: earlier in this thread I presented links to scientific studies regarding glyphosate problems from contaminated soils. Just one example here: "On glyphosate-treated soils, P application induced significant plant damage." Please note the word "significant".

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11104-010-0689-3

In spite of what I presented (controlled scientific studies) he has apparently dismissed them because from his personal experience: " I have worked on too many field trials and result demonstrations on the affects of glyphosate to believe this is from being absorbed through the soil."

So my question to him/her is: did any of your "affect of glyphosate experiences" involve adding additional P to organic rich slightly acid soils that are typically used by rose growers (and of course that were contaminated by glyphosate)?

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Another paper that may be of interest:

Title: "The Effects of Glyphosate on the Growth of Birdsfoot Trefoil (Lotus corniculatus) and Its Interaction with Different Phosphorus Contents in Soil"

Abstract: "Glyphosate residues from applications or exuded by roots of treated crops and by senescing weeds could be absorbed by new crops. The aim of this work was to study the effect of glyphosate in soil on the growth of Lotus corniculatus and its interaction with phosphorus. A completely randomized 3 x 4 factorial design was used for the experiment, with 3 levels of phosphorus (0, 100, and 200 ppm) and 4 of glyphosate (0; 0.5; 1.0, and 2.0 times the recommended dosage, 4 L. ha-1), amended to soil. Glyphosate residues decreased growth parameters, chlorophyll and protein contents, and membrane stability. Glyphosate effect was increased by the greater availability of phosphorus, so there was a significant interaction between glyphosate and phosphorus. The findings of this study provide evidence of the detrimental effect of glyphosate present in soil as well as its remobilization through the presence of additional phosphorus in soil."

http://www.ccsenet.org/journal/html/jas/articles/17896.html

Yes, in our university result demonstrations on cropland we have applied traditional fertilizers such as Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium, etc. I read your posts above, and I have not disputed what is stated in your posts about phosphorous remobilizing glyphosate in sandy soil structures, I specifically mentioned the soil type would affect the impact. However, if that was responsible for the pictures above, then all the agriculture community would need to do would be to treat roundup ready crops with phosphorous and said crops would easily outcompete any weeds that attempted to grow, if the soil residual was strong enough to do that level of control to a plant. I never disputed what you posted about phosphorous, only that in my experience, that kind of plant damage isn't caused by glyphosate coming up out of the soil and into the roots. The damage is too significant and too damaging to the plant. Also, I will point out that in the pics there is perfectly healthy grass growing in close proximity to the rose bush in question. If the glyphosate in the soil was doing this level of damage to the rose then I think you would be seeing damage to the grass as well. It looks like this is on a public street where it is entirely possible that someone managing the weeds for the city/town could have easily sprayed the bush when taking care of the sidewalk and such. .But by all means assume I am attacking you and dismissing what you said. I never did either. Alisha, I hope that your rose has recovered.

Hi thank you for all your comment, update: the rose was pruned and it isn't getting better! I've pruned to the height of my gate(see initial pics, the black gates). I've applied fertilizers, watered it regularly. :( Should I prune it a bit more? I'm slightly worried as the rose is planted in my front door so if I prune it completely then it would look quite bare :/

Is the yellow rose you planted near it doing alright? If this was my rose, I would now leave it alone, just keeping it watered and wait and see. Good luck with it.

Idk how high your gate is, but from reading the comments they are saying cut it all the way down to the ground!! Like leave a very small bit I'd say 3"-4"?? Taking most of the larger older canes straight off right to the ground surface..at this point what do you have to lose? Maybe put some compost around it as well?

kingcobbtx9b, you stated: "I have not disputed what is stated in your posts about phosphorous remobilizing glyphosate in sandy soil structures,...."

H.Kuska comment: Yes the first reference that I gave was to a study in sandy soil. However, the second reference (in the same post) (which was the one that I repeated in my last post) tested in 5 types of soil. Yes the most damage was seen in a sandy soil, but the second most (in a tie) was in a clay type soil, Acrisol .

I then went on to ask: "So my question to him/her is: did any of your "affect of glyphosate experiences" involve adding additional P to organic rich slightly acid soils that are typically used by rose growers (and of course that were contaminated by glyphosate)?"

H.Kuska comment: Nature is complex. Your experiences may or may not be applicable to the situation in this thread. That is why I asked the above question. Your reply "However, if that was responsible for the pictures above, then all the agriculture community would need to do would be to treat roundup ready crops with phosphorous and said crops would easily outcompete any weeds that attempted to grow,....." says to me that you missed my point of concern that what happens when: "adding additional P to organic rich slightly acid soils that are typically used by rose growers (and of course that were contaminated by glyphosate)?"

i.e. I consider your stated experiences with normal farmland situations to not necessarily be applicable to a typical rose garden with the conditions that I included..

kingcobbtx9b commented: "Also, I will point out that in the pics there is perfectly healthy grass growing in close proximity to the rose bush in question. If the glyphosate in the soil was doing this level of damage to the rose then I think you would be seeing damage to the grass as well."

H.Kuska comment: In the early pictures (presented on June 23, 2015 and on June 23, 2015), the ground around the rose is barren (until there is a barrier). In the first post the author stated the following: "I have changed the soil/compost". So, it appears that all we have is grass growing later in the new soil.

Henry, I wasn't meaning to get in an argument with you. I was giving my experiences. I still believe this rose got sprayed when someone was spraying grass growing along the curb or sidewalks, it happens a lot. That is my opinion from my experiences.

To answer your questions, our result demonstrations do involve high levels of P to organic soils, some acidic some basic depending on what area of the state we were doing them in. The Black land prairie stretching through most of central texas would be that exact soil type and we have studies focusing on roundup impacts. Can I state they are the same as a rose garden? No because I have never compared them for that correlation, but they are slightly acidic, high in organic matter, and get P added to them.

The grass I am referring to is in every pic just beyond the barrier of the rose bed. If glyphosate contamination was high enough in the soil to be damaging the rose this badly, the grass on the outside of that barrier would be pulling it up as well and be affected. There are no pics I was referencing of the grass growing inside the barrier, though Alisha does say there were plants growing around the rose but she removed them due to being afraid they were outcompeting the rose for nutrients. So, these other plants were unaffected by large amounts of glyphosate in the soil, but the rose is being hammered by it? Sorry Henry, I respect you and a lot of what you post on here, but I don't believe this is being caused by roundup in the soil from what we know. Also, Alisha doesn't appear to have applied roundup to the bed, she has made no mention of it despite being asked, so it would have had to migrate from other application sites, which again, I would think you would see signs of it elsewhere. I have no dog is this fight other then trying to assist her with what is wrong with her rose, and to me, it appears the rose is getting sprayed directly or by drift when someone is using roundup near it, most likely to kill the grass growing on the curb/sidewalk/garden fence.

I hope it recovers Alisha, it appears to be a lovely plant.

The following statement was made: "The grass I am referring to is in every pic just beyond the barrier of the rose bed. If glyphosate contamination was high enough in the soil to be damaging the rose this badly, the grass on the outside of that barrier would be pulling it up as well and be affected."

H.Kuska comment: the same reasoning could be said for spray drift having an affect on the obvious grass beyond the barrier.

The following statement was also made: " So, these other plants were unaffected by large amounts of glyphosate in the soil, but the rose is being hammered by it?"

H.Kuska comment: where was it stated that the other plants were unaffected? Also, the same reasoning could be said for spray drift. Spray drift should of had an affect on the "other plants" so if they were "unaffected" then it likely was not spray drift.

Leakage through the soil does not have to be uniform. Drainage water can follow rather selective and narrow paths.

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Summary, I have referenced reviewed published scientific papers concerning what can happen with soil poisoning. Apparently one poster feels that the possibility of soil poisoning having the reported effects in a rose bed with the conditions that I have stated can probably be ruled out by his/her field observations. (I say probably because the following was added: "Can I state they are the same as a rose garden? No because I have never compared them for that correlation, but they are slightly acidic, high in organic matter, and get P added to them.")

Of course we can not rule out spray drift even though there appear to be some possible damage inconsistencies with that model.

In an open forum I feel that it is important to point out all of the possibilities that should be considered based on the existing knowledge of the problem and the existing science.

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In this thread there are two posters reporting similar damage. The second damage poster (hturhill with five damaged roses ) stated: " I have thought about how and if these roses have been damaged, I can only think we used roundup on our block paving on the driveway, but this has been done every year."

H.Kuska comment: Do you remember whether when you first noticed the damage you had sprayed shortly before that on a windy day or if it rained shortly after you sprayed? Of course, wind would be compatable with a drifting spray model while rain would suggest that it was possible that glyphosate was washed into the nearby soil from the paving.

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Here is a published scientific paper concerning glyphosate mobility problems if rain occurs shortly after glyphosate is applied when P is present..

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf505533r

http://www.asacim.com.ar/template/pdf/sasaletal2015.pdf

"After P+GL treatment, 28% of the applied glyphosate was lost in the runoff water. In the case of GL treatment at the same dose, the losses were 2.5-fold less than those of the P+GL treatment, indicating that the practice of phosphate fertilization and the application of glyphosate significantly increase the loss of glyphosate by runoff."