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There's an old Yankee saying that we pretty much follow: "Use it up, wear it out. Make it do, or do without."

A long time ago my wife and I were watching the old Phil Donahue program and he had as a guest a woman who was a self professed "Tightwad". But I think she used that term as an attention getter. She and her husband were frugal. They lived on a farm in Maine and he was an Officer in the Navy.

They used a number of the suggestion above but went a little further. As an example, "Big Wheels" were popular then, but she couldn't see spending $50 on a toy her kid would use for maybe a year or so. So she bought a lot of the toys at yard sales. I distinctly remember her saying she got an excellent condition Big Wheel for $5. Everything she bought was in like new condition. The kids were just as happy too. Naturally she had a garden too and did a lot of canning, which by the way, is making a big comeback.

Her husband would purchase a new vehicle for cash every ten years. He would send out an offer to purchase for "X" dollars to every dealer in a 300 mile radius. The first one to respond got his business.

One woman in the audience stood up and exclaimed that they were 'abusing' their children by living that lifestyle. She responded that by living this way she gets to stay home and actually raise her children.

We have a hanging sign we got at a craft fair maybe 30 years ago, and it's oh, so true.

The best things in life...... aren't 'things'

Christopher, The lady you mention sounds like Amy Dacyczyn, author of the Tightwad Gazette newsletter, which she later published in book form. Great information and enough tips to help you cut your costs, especially of you're new to frugality! Most libraries have the books.

I knew her name but couldn't spell it.

You don't have to pledge to become Mrs. Tightwad or Mr. Money Moustache to save a considerable amount of money each month. We retired early because we followed two seemingly contradictory maxims:

1. Watch your pennies and your dollars will take care of themselves,
2. Don't be penny wise and dollar foolish.

This is more about the first. Many of the things I mention previous posters have mentioned as well.

It depends on where you start from but most people I know can benefit greatly from taking just a few steps.

• Pack your lunch! OK so my spouse was good at stacking coupons so I brought a Lean Cuisine or whatever like that was available for about a dollar a day compared with $7 or so to get lunch nowdays.
• Shop your insurance. This is a big expense. You need to shop it every two years. Pay premiums annually or at least semi-annually. Don't pay monthly.
• Get the best reward credit card, use it for every purchase, and pay it off every month.
• Buy scratch and dent, or closeout, or rebuilt, or refurbished. Dead broke relatives must have a pristine new washer and matching dryer in a special color even though the dryer doesn't need replacement.
• Buy the car nobody wants (for cash) at the end of the model year and drive it for 10 years or more if you are handy that way. My dad used to get the most wretched colors. He never worried about it. Again dead broke almost losing their home to foreclosure relatives are driving BMWs as I type this. I don't think they even have any awareness. Think of the stress!
• Use coupons. Follow couponing blogs. Strange but true - coupon use increases as income rises. The least likely person to use coupons is a poor person. The average income of heavy coupon users is over $100K per year! Crazy, right?

Good luck everyone!

" Pay premiums annually or at least semi-annually. Don't pay monthly."

Not always. My company (USAA) costs exactly the same whether paid monthly or full up front.

Or, conversely, don't play the debt game. I'm not trying to invalidate the idea of buying a new car at a discount price or getting a low-interest credit card, but It's nice not to have monthly payments, however small they may be. It's really sad that businesses have discovered they can make more money on interest payments than on just selling a product. Our entire economy is now running on the buying and selling of debt, hedging future interest against the likeliness of a debtor defaulting. Imaginary dollars, as I like to say. What happened to the good old fashioned exchange of hard-earned money for goods and services?

Sorry, got off on a rant there...jn344, I'm going to talk to my hubby about what we're paying for insurance--just because he went to high school with our agent doesn't mean we're getting a good deal--thanks for that tip!

You nailed it about selling debt.

You can't watch TV anymore without a commercial about getting the newest credit card so you can go into debt even more. Now I'm seeing ads from some outfit called Fingerhut about buying stuff on credit. Do you really need to put a $250 set of Rachael Ray pots and pans on credit? As an aside, my wife inherited her grandmother's cast iron skillet. It has to be close to 100 years old, and she uses it just about every day.

I open the newspaper and see the automobile dealers' ads. I don't see prices anymore, just the monthly payments for a lease.

Didn't we learn anything from the crash?

Debt is very useful when used prudently. When people overspend, that's what the problem is. Not the debt.

It's like anything else used improperly or irresponsibly. Make your list - is it credit cards and debt, or drinking alcohol, or guns, or what? I use the first three regularly (not guns) and have never had a problem. It's not that hard.

I bought a new car a few months ago. The manufacturer was offering a special financing rate. Yes, I had the money to pay cash, but with investments having a greater yield than the borrowing rate, I make money by having maximized the loan. Seeing the monthly payment leave my bank account makes me smile, it's a reminder that by financing, over the life of the loan I'm saving many more hundreds of dollars.

I wasn't advocating debt when I mentioned charging everything...just the rewards on the card which can be up to 3% or even more, and stuff like extended warranties, buyer protection, fraud protection, etc.

Yes, debt can be useful. As Snidley says. Be careful, though. Oftentimes you are offered a choice - 0% financing *or* $2000 off. Not both. You have to do a little math to determine which is the actual deal. My experience has been you give up on the price in order to get the 0% financing but ymmv.

My comment was 2/3rds to Christopher, 1/3 to you.

Car dealer ads mention payments because a high percentage of car buyers finance the purchase. They provide info to attract buyers- nothing wrong with that.

What is it from the business cycle downturn you want people to have learned? Most people didn't lose their jobs or have any problem with pre-existing debt. Only those who bought houses at the bubble's peak had a problem that, by now, has resolved for many.

Business cycles aren't new, they're centuries old. Everyone is happy to
ride the elevator up, forgetting that at some point the direction
changes. But, that's an aside from the current conversation.

I don't have any credit cards since I cut them all up a number of years ago. I've been completely sober since 1986.

I'm just curious. What the heck do guns have to do with debt? I have guns as do all of my neighbors. And nobody's in debt because of them.

As far as the car dealers, the monthly payments advertised are lease payments. I find it silly to buy a car you can't afford and then not even own it. But I guess it impresses the neighbors. Around here absolutely nobody cares what kind of car you drive.

The gun cite was an example of something else that when handled properly by an informed person presents little danger. I've never owned one and wouldn't allow one in my house, but again, everyone is different.

I'm not sure what your personal aversion is to credit cards but that does no harm if that's what floats your boat. Me, I wouldn't want to be without mine, there are simply too many things that would be very difficult to do without them. I've never paid a penny in interest charges and have benefited from thousands of dollars of usage credits and rebates.

Cars and other vehicles are toys, the purchases are as much emotional and rational, and they bring people a lot of pleasure in their lives. If you do other things, great.

We just live different lifestyles. You're happy and so am I, and I think that's all that matters, right?

Sounds right.

My most recently bought new car (which was last year's model) was almost 40 years ago.

I have a friend (former parishioner) who has helped me buy good used cars and seldom invest more than $3,500. or so and have hardly ever got my budget murdered by a need for more than modest repairs. Trouble is - he sold his body shop a few years ago, and died of cancer a month or so ago ... so I guess I'll have to look on my own. I regret his departure from this dimension of life.

My best tips?

Live on less than you earn.

Buy regularly used items when they're on sale, store ahead ... but not too long.

Save part of all income, put it to work. Especially true for "windfalls": bonuses, non-usual income, birthday gifts, etc.

Learn how money works ... learn how to invest skilfully, then put those saved dollars to work.

I sold mutual funds for a while, but don't recommend them: clients pay 1.5% per year to those so-called skilled managers (usually 2.5% or more in Canada) ... but 85 - 90% of the time they don't do as well as the general growth rates in the section of the market in which they operate.

I bought stocks of one company just over 20 years ago for $15.00 one year, $11.00 the next year, $26.00 total, paid commission to the broker when I bought, no fees to anyone in any year since.

I could have sold them late today for $47.92 in New York, or $59.48 in Toronto. They've paid about 2 - 3% dividend on the ongoing value of the shares over the years. The shares have split on a 2:1 basis 3 times over those 20+ years ... so my one originally bought share became two ... then four ... then eight. That is, my original cost per share of $26.00 when divided by 8 means that my original cost per current share is $3.25.

Would you like to see $3.25 grow to $59.48 in just over 20 years ... and pay you 2 - 3% per year during those years (and in Canada that's at a low tax rate).

To be honest: about my best investment result, thus far.

Good wishes to you and yours.

ole joyful

"Live on less than you earn" Truer words were never written.

Now if we can just convince Washington, DC.

A big thing for me is not eating out. So many people waste so much money (and time) by eating out at a fancy restaurant every weekend, going to fast food places during the week, etc. It's a lot cheaper and healthier to cook your own meals.

In regards to mutual funds--buy index funds for much lower expense fees.

A lot of people enjoy eating out, it can be very enjoyable (especially with friends) as long as one goes with an effective waistline strategy. Personally, I don't find food at chain and fast food restaurants to be particularly tasty but most are bad choices for health reasons more than for money reasons.

Yes, if you buy and prepare your own food and become proficient in doing it, you can be sure what is (and isn't) in it.

About the only times we dine out is on our anniversary or my wife's birthday. When I'm on the road at a show I always get a hotel room with a microwave and my wife will prepare dinners for me as she loves to cook and I love to eat her cooking.

Some of the hotels I stay at have what I call "expense account restaurants". You know, the cheapest thing on the menu is $28.95 and the breakfast starts at $15.95 for bacon and eggs.

Just as an aside, I am seeing more hotels yank out the mini bar and replace it with a refrigerator and microwave.

Not a big Suze Orman fan but something she once said really resonated with me. It was something like "You should enjoy saving money as much as spending it." Perhaps my biggest saver over the years has been using a no annual fee affinity or cash back credit card when I could have paid cash. Last month I applied $1,000 in accrued cash back to my bill. Blew in some extra insulation into the attic 10 years ago and saw my electric bill drop $20 per month. Bought a "hybrid" electric hot water heater last year on sale for $999. The electric company gave me a $350 rebate. I was also able to take a $350 energy tax credit. My electric bill has dropped $20 per month. That ads up to a free water heater after 12 months.

I think you've said you live away from a population center. One of the many advantages of urban/suburban living is access to a diversity of very good restaurants of all types. In my experience, restaurants in small towns and rural areas can be really poor. I live in a foodie-aware area, and excellent restaurant of conventional types as well as ethnic restaurants are too good to not enjoy regularly.

Just to show how tastes can differ, I hate having a fridge (whether a mini-bar or one for guest use) in a hotel room. First thing I do if there's one in my room is to turn it off. If there's chocolate or anything heat sensitive, I'll put it on the counter until I leave and turn the fridge back on. Why? Because the heat they give off often warms the room to uncomfortable levels, and I dislike sleeping with A/C running.

I frequently see items that others have set out for junk that only need cleaning and/or minor repair to be perfectly usable. Just this year, I've gotten several hundred dollars from furniture that only needed minor repair and staining, a chain saw that needed a little adjustment to stop leaking oil and a piece of exercise equipment that just needed cleaning. A $10 part put an expensive commercial grade microwave oven back in service for the community center. For myself, I've kept a leaf blower and string trimmer that only needed new fuel lines, and garden sprayer that needed nothing and a wheel barrow that needed a couple bolts tightened and air in the tire.

Repairing these cast-outs is a hobby that pays rather than costs, and my wife has stopped complaining about me dragging home the neighborhood junk.

Also:

Walking and physical labor in the fresh air is good for you and will help keep health care expenses lower. Don't forget to take good care of your teeth and gums before they start to give you costly problems.

"A credit card is like a chain saw. Used wisely it can be a beneficial tool. Used carelessly, it can cost you an arm and a leg."

I like the chain saw analogy!

My saw is very important to me as my home here in Vermont uses wood as the main heat source with oil as backup. Last winter was tough here in New England, but the total cost to heat my home from late October to late April was under $400.

"but the total cost to heat my home from late October to late April was under $400"

That's true only if you view your own time as having no value.

If you throw $25 a hour (or whatever) into the assessment, you may find that using oil would have been significantly cheaper. Or, maybe not.

• I too cut my own hair as well as the kids. Hubby does his own. 5 people @ 1 haircut per month, even at lowest prices of $15 per cut is over $1000 a year when you factor in tax.
• We do have satellite since our internet service is poor where we live. To save $ we just have the lowest package available. When we lived in the city we did have Internet through a cable company and you get a few channels free that way, we streamed the rest.
• To add on your planning meals, you can also plan around the flyer sales to save even more.
• DIY is my favorite tip. So many people just don't know how to take care of themselves these days.
• Plant a garden and save your seeds from year to year
• when produce is at peak season it's usually excellent price and often local. Preserve it (freeze, dry, can)
• We can raise animals for our own meat for about 1/2 the cost (it's varies) than buying at the grocery store and they are fed a better more natural diet. I know this would be a hard tip for many people
• Hand-me-down clothes. This could mean passing from one kid to the next or purchasing used to begin with. I can't even begin to do the math on how much I've likely saved on not having to buy new clothes every year for all three. On the same token, I usually get clothes given to me because I'm small.
• Look at thrift stores, auctions, online ads, and yard sales for all those pricier appliances. Why spend $100 on a blender when yours breaks if you can get one for $5 (of course make sure it's in good working order)
• Get out and enjoy nature. It's often free
• Barter with neighbors/ family/ friends
• Use your imagination, find a way to repurpose

Snidely, some things you don't put a price on. The only time I count my labor is if I can deduct it from my taxes.

Working the woodstove requires effort to save money. And at my age this keeps me fit. To be honest, sometimes the flames from the woodstove are a lot more entertaining than what's on TV these days. And an oil burner really doesn't do much good during a Vermont blizzard when the power goes out for 12 to 18 hours and it's 20 below outside. It happened 3 times last year. Usually the power goes out for a couple hours at most once a month during winter.

"The only time I count my labor is if I can deduct it from my taxes."

I guess you're saying you never do, since you can't do that.

Power outages under those circumstances must not be fun. You're a heartier soul than I am. Do any of your neighbors use generators or is it just the local style to hunker down and get through it?

We all have a generator, but they're small to keep the ice box running or to keep a light and TV on. Maybe one or two neighbors have an automatic whole house generator, but they cost a lot of money.

Usually a couple hour power failure is no big deal, so we all just go with what Mother Nature throws at us, and curl up by the wood stove, which all my neighbors have.

I live an uncomplicated life. My stress level is low as is my blood pressure.

Chris, we're like you, only run the generator if we need to. We don't have a wood stove right now though. We have an outdoor wood furnace that heats all the water and provides heat. If we ever get the liner replaced on the chimney we'll be putting a wood stove in. In the country you need that backup. Late winter of 2013 the power was out here for 3 days.

I don't think it's necessary to move to a rural setting (as you've described) to live an uncomplicated life. Aside from work stresses (before I retired) which could be easily compartmentalized and which I think are unavoidable in most cases, I've lived a low blood pressure, comfortable life smack dab in the middle of civilization.

Everyone finds happiness in different ways and places, I'm glad you found yours.

Snidely, for some, it's the people that actually add to stress in life. I've lived big cities, small cities, tiny towns and now far outside of a town and this is by far the most at ease I've ever felt in my life. My husband grew up in a large city his whole life. We both love living here and being surrounded by nature. I know it's not for everyone, but for some of us it actually contributes to a healthier physical and mental state of health.

I grew up in a big city. I'd gladly still be there if my career hadn't moved me to a slightly smaller but still very urban place. I don't personally like rural areas but a bigger concern for me concerned raising kids. I didn't want a family of small town kids, with small town attitudes and small town perspectives.

Schools in less rural areas (call it "suburban") are often much better and more choices are available. There are more opportunities for sports, educational and cultural experiences. There can be more exposure to positive influences and sure, negative ones too, but the spectrum is instructive. We tried to give our kids broad exposure to diverse thoughts and to the world, and encouraged them to have broad perspectives about what they might do with their lives. We were successful on most scores in doing these things. It wouldn't have been possible living in a small town.

If a small town or rural area works for you, fine. It wouldn't work for me.

Snidley, I have to relay this true story.

A couple of years ago I was in the general store late on a Sunday afternoon getting some milk. In pops a couple of snow bunnies who spent the day posing (as opposed to skiing) up on Killington. We knew right away from their little mink trimmed cuffs and new snow boots.

One asked which was the way to the interstate. An old grizzled Vermonter stood up and asked: "Going to New York City?"

"Yes, we want to get back to civilization" she said.

"Civilization, huh? You mean where you have 5 locks on your doors? People living on top of people who live on top of people, who live on top of people? Where you have this beautiful park smack dab in the middle of the city and everyone's afraid to go into it after dark fearing for their lives? Where people are robbed in broad daylight because they're wearing the latest in sneakers? Where everyone ignores everyone and people are afraid to look each other in the eye?"

"And you call that civilized."

Snidley, I grew up 30 miles due west of NYC in North Jersey. That guy might have been having some fun with those girls, but he was more accurate than he thought. My friend, they don't PRINT enough money to make me want to move back there.

The NY Metro area is not to my liking either but I do enjoy visiting there
every once in awhile. I feel the same about other large US cities, most of the Top 25 of which I've visited multiple times for both work and pleasure.

I've been to Vermont. The scenery is lovely but the weather and the low population density aren't what I prefer. We have higher and more scenic mountains just a few hours from my coastal location. And mostly manageable civilization. Mostly. Best of both worlds.

If I had to choose between somewhere in Vermont and NYC, I'd probably choose NYC. But I can say I've successfully avoided being put in such a predicament and my absences from my native California have been mostly just temporary and mostly of my own choosing.

It's refreshing to hear others who are happy where they are, and also a reminder of how human nature is that what's preferable to one person can be completely the opposite to another. It's part of why meeting and interacting with a large diversity of people is interesting.

Snidely, your kids will only end up narrow minded if you choose to teach them that is the way of thinking. I think you're actually being quite discriminating in thinking that only people in the city can have a wide array of exposure. Sure there are people where I live that are very closed minded, but I also experienced that in the city. I homeschooled my kids for several years and came across all kinds of people on our outtings who homeschooled for all kinds of reasons. There were definitely just as many closed minded people there.

My kids choose friends who share their interest and their belief system.

I do find it funny that what you are proposing people who live in the country are like, is exactly how you are coming across in your posts towards people who live in the country.

There are all kinds of people everywhere, it's very true. Of course lots of people enjoy visiting and vacationing, even retiring, to less congested wide open spaces. I was just saying that we decided it wasn't a good starting point for us, both from an occupational opportunity standpoint and from an educational standpoint for our kids. Our options wouldn't have included rural or farming communities just as a matter of personal preference and background, but rather more likely a smaller beach town instead of where we wound up.

I can see where my limited and abbreviated comments might have brought you to your conclusion but I don't think any of what you're suggesting is the case. About them or me. On the other hand, it wasn't me who first described the existence of and a term for "country bumpkins".

My kids are young adults now, very open-minded (perhaps more than I) and all have what I might describe as a compassionate world view. I think the experiences they had living in a diverse and more cosmopolitan place played a role in the development of their views.

In the US, it's sometimes difficult (for many reasons, not infrequently economic ones) to be able to live in areas that give familes access to higher rated school districts. Unfortunately, many of the higher rated ones are in areas where housing and the costs of living are higher. What reasons brought you to want to home school your kids? I ask because that too can rob kids of the learning experiences gained when having to interact with lots of other kids.

Does any of it matter? Nah, just chit-chat.

We have a number of private high schools in our county, and since our town doesn't have a high school we have school choice. The kids can go to the public high school in the next town, or any of the 7 private high schools in the county. What surprises a lot of people is that students come literally from all over the world to attend these private high schools.

Here's one of those schools: Long Trail School

US private secondary and public and private college level institutions have seen huge increases in international students in the last 20 years. All for the same reason - as a back door for immigration.

Many of the students you'll find are disproportionately from emerging countries with newly created middle classes, like China, Taiwan, India, and some African countries to a much lesser extent. These days, many more folks in those places can afford the cost for their kids. Far fewer come from other industrialized countries as in the past, like Japan or Western Europe, because for them immigration to the US is relatively less attractive or important.

US high school is a stepping stone to US colleges (applying to college from a foreign HS and showing equivalence of education isn't always straight forward). A US college degree is a stepping stone to a job immediately or later, after grad or professional schools. Temporary work visas can lead to green cards.

That's why you're seeing foreign students in your local private schools. I'd also think the schools welcome the money and that a school in a small town would have a smaller and less competitive applicant pool than schools in more populated areas. Excepting, of course, some of the the old line prep schools that are in smaller towns but that are very hard to get into.

We live 90 miles north of NYC. Our daughter lives in Manhattan. Although living in NYC is not for me, she loves it. To say "everyone ignores everyone" in NY is not quite true. It is true that it's a fast paced, busy place. People work demanding jobs, and they put in long hours. That may give the impression that they are not friendly, but I don't believe that is accurate. Its a different culture there, that's all. Not for everyone, but people who live there are very loyal to the city. Might I remind folks about the heart of the NYC residents during the 9/11 crisis? I think you'll find nice and not so nice people wherever you live.

I just happened to stop in here for a few minutes.....interesting! Now if I could only get my DD and her DH to read it. But she did relate something to me yesterday. She and three other teachers from a city went to a conference in another city and while driving down the interstate, they went by the exit where we lived when she was growing up....a big city of 800, if you counted the dogs! The others had never lived out of the city and they were appauled at how small the town was. They asked her what she ever did and she said that they rode bikes and then when they could drive, they rode around town....all 16 streets! She did tell them, she would move back in a heartbeat! It was the best place to raise kids!......but now she is used to eating out in all of those restaurants....she would have to cook!....may be a good thing....she would really save money!

Thanks for sharing. It really can help save money.