Please write any comments or questions on the thread at the trees forum which the above link will directly take you, too.

Thank you,

Dax

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Dax

added a few
Dax

thanks for hepping me to that , dude

Yo.
Lata,
Dax

Cool.

I added just a few.

Dax

Boss.

Right here, boss. Gonna take a whizz boss. (Paul Newman - Cool Hand Luke)

Cool Hand Luke

Barb,


Some data for you and growing pecans. It appears you should have success with "far northern" pecans with shorter shuck split time.
Cooling and Heating Degree Days: change the temp. value to 65 F and then proceed.

I ran a comparison of 2010 and 2012 and the Denver area has a cooling degrees average value of 1000. That's important. Later I'll tell you why from notes I have a friend wrote.

Your heating degree days are "hot." 1900 is all that's necessary and you're like me with 6,000.

You should be growing 'Hark' and 'Mullahy'. They are the two best for this data. I have grafts of both should you like to replace what you have next-spring.

Here is a full summary of notes I kept from a fella with years of personal experience:

"What most people miss-calculate in
figuring frost free days, is that pecan foliage and buds are killed at around 26
degrees, not 32 degrees. So to an accurate idea of how many growing days one has
is to find out when the temperature stops falling below 28 degrees in the
spring, and when it starts to fall below 28 degrees in the fall.

Cooling degree days is what is used to
determine how much a given area in the country uses air conditioning. The higher
the cooling degree days means it gets hot enough to turn on air conditioners,
and pecans love heat. The higher the cooling degree days, the better.

Most pecan experts will tend to base
which pecans will shuck split and which will not have enough time, n areas of
the country that get around 1,000 cooling degree days.

The problem with their information is
that most of them are in pecan growing areas to start with. The other problem
with the them is they are repeating information they were taught in school about
pecans. Information that was based on pecans that farmers use in the
south.

It has only been within the last 35
years that that pecans that will shuck split out side of the pecan farm area
have been recognized. Pecans that only require around 500 cooling degree days,
not 1,000 cooling degree days. Pecans that will shuck split at under 160 days
and not 175 days.

Heat degree days use to be corn heat
degree days. It use to be the number of heat units needed to grow corn in
certain parts of the country. I don't know to much more about it.Except that
John Gordon use to tel me to look for pecans that would ripen in around 1900
heat degree days. John Gordon and Doug Campbell had/have a nut test farm around
Niagara Falls. Which is cool most summers.

There simply is not much information on
the Internet about far northern pecans. That is because most people do not know
about them and or do not believe they exist.

Four years back I talked to a professor
at the university of Iowa. He was suppose to be their pecan expert. When I asked
him about the Mullahy pecan, he said he had
never heard of it. Although it was found in Iowa by Gary Fernald and first grafted in 1979. Two years ago a nut expert at
the University of Conn. told me pecan trees will not produce nuts in
Connecticut."

Bob Harper, CT. USA. Bob is successful growing pecans with about 550 cooling degree days, contrary to all information available.

Pecan cultivars Bob suggests for areas of the country that are not in prime pecan growing weather:

Warren 346, - # ll - 139 days average shuck split

Iowa - # I - 139 days

Lucas # II 152 days

Snaps # I - 143 days

Cornfield # II - 144 days.

They are all small pecans. But, heavy producers of quality nuts
Mullahy #2
NC-4 #1

The #'s 1 and 2 represent bloom time.

'Hark' is a #1 and 'Mullahy' is a #2. These overlap bloom periods beautifully. There are gaps Barb in bloom periods for 1's and 2's. Just because one pecan is a type 1 and another a type 2.....doesn't mean they will overlap. It's necessary to read/look at charts for data of exact bloom and receptiveness.

Gary Fernald is a friend of mine. Gary has discovered several pecans that are being propagated because of his lifetime work. 'Hark' is a discovery and a chance seedling found by Bill Totten who also is a friend of mine and Gary Fernald. Both these men live a short drive from my home. 'Hark' is only being propagated by myself, Gary, Bill, and friends from GW I've shared scions with. It's not commercially available. It's the best pecan discovered yet for "far northern pecan climates."

Here you see 'Hark' and you see 'Major'. 'Major' is a northern pecan that will not mature most years where I live. It will only fill about 20% of the time/most years. I need an Indian summer for it to fill.

I have much to learn, Dax! Thank you for this info. I've been following your posted experiences with pecans. I appreciate the offer of grafts and will take you up on it. I'll be happy to cover expenses and postage. I will pm you soon.

I've gotten some pretty incredulous looks and comments on trying pecans here, but in looking at champion tree lists for Colorado, pecans made the list with one in my county. We flooded in 2013 and in addition to different soil types being deposited at my place, there are pockets of soil that haven't dried out yet. I thought, what the heck, it'll be an experiment!

Here's the link to what I decided to try first. I ordered 2, they sent 3. I cleared the planting areas of grass but am leaving surrounding grass intact to shade the seedlings from the afternoon sun this year. We're at about 5,000 feet elevation and I don't want to fry them the first year.

Oikos Michigan Pecan

Thank you so much for this info and being willing to share grafts. It's much appreciated! I'm going to the Cooling and heating degree days link now.

Barb

You are welcome, Barb.

I didn't use DG's frost free calculator. It appears from Denver zip codes that 145 days is the average while I'm at 173. 173 is too high a figure, however. Pecans with 155-160 days to ripen are the maximum amount of growing season days for my area... that means that DG's figure for your area is likely lower than 145. Yesterday I didn't think to check that.

You would be better to grow other grafted selections that I do have: 'Iowa' and 'Warren 346'. While they are smaller nuts, they will crack better than the low possibility that a seedling pecan has to offer. 'Iowa' cracks in quarters and some halves, but, I don't know how Warren 346 cracks but, it is a cultivar and will crack superior to seed-grown pecans. Your chances would be minute that an oikos seedling will crack better than either of these grafted-selections.

Still do take me up on my offer. I'll get you the best that is currently available.

Your cultural conditions are ideal... we're halfway there.

Dax

Thanks, Dax. I figured the frost free days would be the issue. We do have a short growing season, 145 days is about right.

I tried to pm you to give you my email address, but it seems to want me to have your email address to do that asked me to load my gmail contact list, which I don't have. I'm a technical dolt and haven't sorted through some of the changes from Gardenweb to Houzz. If I can't figure it out, I may just reply here with my email address, but let me try a few things first.

Barb

Sent a pm to you, Barb.

Dax

I've bought a pinus wallichiana from Ebay about 5 yrs old and three feet high. Not ideal, but true conifer rootstock in the UK is non existent to an rank amateur like me. I've asked them for a straight one with good crown growth.

I'll use it for grafting a Flexilis and a Longaeva onto as back up. That way I can get it into a bigger pot over winter and it'll be ready in January for the slice.

I about had a coronary yesterday. I went to order flexilis (reflexa) rootstocks from U of Idaho and they are sold out! Three days ago they were not. It is the actual plug that is attractive with their seedlings. No establishment necessary; just graft right on them. They're also sold out of P.strobiformis which I do not believe they were sold out of three days ago, as-well.

I have some 2 and 3 year P.strobus in band pots that I may have to use. A lesson I've already learned the hard way. Old seedlings in old media tend to die 100-fold more often then fresh seedlings.

Wallichiana will do you well.

Dax

Wow that is SBT ( **** bad timing)! Is it other grafters buying them or are they sold as grow ons?

I see tons of seed for sale on Ebay and maybe I should grow my own rootstock.

One nice addition of Wallichiana is that nurse branches left on are very attractive.

I got an email a few moments ago from U of Idaho and their new crop of Limber pine is ready! Yesssss! What a strike of luck and my order is complete.

Growing your own rootstock takes too long. That's just what I think... Here in the US I can get 50 seedlings of (a) species for 30 to 33 cents a seedling, so a group of 50 (bare-root) is about 16 bucks. Shipping is pretty much the same price as the seedlings themselves, but... it's instant gratification and w/o the concerns of crop failure, needing to dig them, or animals eating them; or for that matter, the care involved.

Dax

And you're a grafter not a farmer, lol.

So what will be going on the limbers? How will they be prepared between now and new year?

bungeana. I'll drop the plug in a band pot and limb up the lower branches. I'll need to graft bungeana at the root collar or, slightly into the roots/onto a root. The whole point of bungeana is the bark... and I do not want to see another pine's bark at the base of one of these grafts, ever.

Dax

Sounds like you'll get there! Good luck with the project.

I'm there man!

Dax

Good for you Dax!

I'm going to re use two failed pseudotsuga grafts again and try an Aug 1st grafting on the new growth. It may actually work better with the tiny caliper and micro thin bark as they'll be growing into each other immediately rather than dormant. The mother plant has put out it's best growth to date so there's plenty of choice for scions.

Wishing you good luck. Tough part of the year to graft. Then again, Jarpe does get some to go during summer... and, if I had that opportunity like I stated above..... and now was the only time to graft something... there's no question I'd graft it.

Remember, keep the top cool and the bottom warm is the general process for winter grafting but in your case, indirect light w/o bottom heat will serve you well.

Dax