Really, you've had your jades out weeks already in your zone? Do you mean you moved them in when it snowed?

yes they have been outside for much of april. I moved them inside when it snowed. other than that the night time temp had not sunk down below 32 degrees. have them on my porch first up against the house, now in the sunnier portion of it and next stop full sun spot.

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger' doesn't work for plants. It's much to early too have jades outdoors, at least from their perspective.

Trunks thicken in direct relation to (primarily) the amount of photosynthesizing surface of the leaves, so cutting most of the leaves/branches off is counterproductive. If you want a plant with a fat trunk, the best way to accomplish it is to let the plant grow wild (unpruned) then cut it back to an attractive trunk line with relatively even taper from top to bottom, then build your tree from the basic structure. If that's beyond your skill set, try getting rid of all the pitchfork branching (trifurcations) in favor of slingshot branches (bifurcation). It will make a very significant difference in how your tree looks down the road. If you get used to correcting any trifurcations as they appear by rubbing off the buds/small branches in locations that least compliment the design you don't sacrifice any growth potential (with "growth" being a measure of the increase in mass) at all.

Al

Thanks for the comment al. I will try to not cut off too many branches. Its really just one of my jades that's so leggy looking I can't stand to look at it. I did this same sort of temp transition last year with those plants and leave them the longest as winter approaches as well. No observable Ill effects. Not that that means anything. Plus they get the nice coloring. Anyway do you think I should have a temp more like 40 or 45 degrees mind?

I'm in a slightly warmer zone, but I've had my plants outside for a few weeks now. We've had a few nights of 30s for a few hours, but mostly in the 40s with days in the 50s and 60s. If it drops below 35 I bring them in for the night. I've also repotted some already back in March.

Al, can you tell me more about the 3 branch vs 2 branch thing? I have a tricolor jade that is my favorite for the 3 branch look. 3 is my lucky number.

Here is a pic...

Before pruning...

With new growth after pruning..

This guy is doing something similar...

He went into detail about the branching structure in one of the more recent jade threads but I can't remember which one...

This year, I put all of my winter growers outside a few weeks ago as I began the re-potting process & switching back to GM those few who remained in succulent mix & perlite.

When the temps are above 45 at night, they stay out there all night.

Low 40's as has happened in the past 2 weeks, I brought them inside at night with no ill effects. On days like today where it's overcast, they stay out, sheltered from rain.

As yet, I didn't have any issues with losing leaves, pouting or general complaints about the cool weather.

I did lose some leaves to bleaching because there's precious little shade going on out on my front patio. Hoping to remedy that before the we get too deep into Spring.

I have more trouble acclimating to sun than to cool weather.

When a person gets too cold, they experience hypothermia and ultimately death if the condition isn't corrected. They also use a LOT more stored energy in an effort to keep themselves warm, not to mention the other physiological changes that accompany hypothermia. When plants are placed in conditions too cold for them to carry on photosynthesis, they essentially switch to battery power (relying on stored energy reserves). Using that reserve energy ultimately reduces the plant's ability to push growth when temperatures warm enough for photosynthesis to resume. It also robs the plant of some of its ability to keep insects and diseases at bay; so, while you can't see a plant shivering or take its core temperature, you can be sure it does not appreciate exposure to temps below about 55*. What a plant tolerates isn't a good measure of what it appreciates.

In addition, plants exposed to cold temperatures don't immediately return to their full ability to carry on photosynthesis when temperatures do warm. The recovery time is often longer than a full day, which means a plant exposed to a night chill might not be able to carry on efficient photosynthesis during all of the next light period. Just because you can't see it with your eyes, doesn't mean it isn't happening. Just think how much potential would be realized if we were able to identify and correct everything that limits our plants, and how much potential is left lying on the table because we don't.

Al

Thank you for the elaboration al

You're most welcome.

Deva - here's the picture I posted. If you have other questions, ck with the OP to see if it's ok to piggyback on his/her thread. I'm good with it, but ....

Al

piggy back away

OK - only if there are questions, though. Thanks for sharing your thread!

Al

I put out some of my plants here in New England lately, including a few smaller Jades. But the larger ones will stay indoors for now, if not all summer. With pesky squirrels around, don't want to risk damage or loss to my better plants.

By the way, the couple of Jades I have had out for a few weeks now, in my view, have only benefited from the change, including this one.

Kris has always found a way to disagree with the things I offer, but as I mentioned, the loss of potential isn't always something you can see with the eye. If someone thinks his plants are better off in the cold, I'm all for him feeling good about it. For others - plants are genetically programmed to know what needs to be done, but they depend on us to know what's best for them from a cultural standpoint. What defines our proficiency as growers is our ability to identify and eliminate the limitations that rob our plants of their potential; what defines something other than our proficiency is adding to the numbers and/or severity of those limitations. It doesn't matter if we add to our plants limitations willfully or through lack of knowledge, it's still a reflection on our proficiency.

Most of us have been endowed with a nurturing gene, which is why we so enjoy nurturing plants. Speaking only for myself, putting plants out in the cold when I know it's not good for them doesn't tickle my nurturing gene.

Al

I'm with Al on this one. Although it can be a pain, I'll happily move my jades, and other plants for that matter, out into the sun when I can, then bring them back in to keep warm at night. I draw the line at 50 degrees over night. Anything lower than that, and they come inside.

Joe

Al, I am just giving my viewpoint and my observations, based on my own years of experience. Whether it agrees with your view is irrelevant, it's not all about you. I do what works for me, and what works for me, may not work for others.

But I do know that Crassula ovata in its natural habitat in South Africa is subject to some cold temperatures at night. I am of the opinion that if we can replicate as much as possible the natural environment of the plant we are growing, it can only be beneficial to the plant. As to proficiency, I would let my several nice Jades speak for themselves.

We all can learn from sharing our own experiences. One who teaches, should also be open to learning.

Christopher

I understand very well things aren't about me, or you, or Sam or Sally or Sue; in fact, I almost always look at things from the side (perspective) of the plant, as I am in this case. Sometimes we can learn bad habits from those who think they're observing something that isn't possible. You can't or won't see the limitations cold burdens your plants with, but science says they're there. I trust science before I trust even my own observations, so you can be sure I'll trust science before I trust someone else's, especially when their habit is persistent disagreement with anything I offer. I'm exceptionally open minded, and learn a lot about plants in bits & pieces from the forums, but when I see someone suggesting there are no limitations inherent in a practice which I know with certainty to be limiting, I'm going to voice an opinion - 'just my viewpoint and observations'. I have no reason to want to change how you do things, but when I see ways others can avoid self-imposed limitations, I'll mention it.

Mother Nature is not a kind mother, and trying to replicate what she provides for her charges in situ is folly when we're dealing with container culture. Again, what a plant will tolerate in situ is no indication of what it prefers. BTW - Jades are one of the easiest plants to grow that I know of, and they very often look good in spite of how we treat them rather than because of how we treat them. The fact stands that putting your jades out in the cold limits their ability to function efficiently. If you have other evidence aside from "it works for me" why not share it?

Al

Mother Nature has asked me to come forward here and defend her; we mothers are sick of being blamed for everything, she says, and it will all end badly if things go on this way. She adds that she has been around a lot longer than anyone here, and you should all put a sock in it. Mother knows best. I'm only telling you what she said....

Beautiful day outside here in lovely Long Island, overnight temps in the 50's and daytime in the 60-70's. Plants including Jades enjoyed their overnight stay as well as the light breezes.

Yesterday was perfectly overcast and daytime temps in the mid 50's to 60's. Grass is greening up and the Spring cleanup & changeover continues.

If you're lucky enough to have some similar weather pattern gracing your area, get out there and enjoy it as these things can be fleeting.

Putting plants thru not-so-favorable conditions if one has a choice doesn't sound like a good practice to me. It's bad enough that we all have some limitations that we can't change, so it would make sense to do best we can when possible.
Scientifically proven practices are very helpful to know. Then we can go from there, understanding what is best for plant and hopefully being able to replicate as much as possible.
Obviously, it is individual's choice to go as far as they are interested or capable of.
It's like taking care of child...or any human being, or a pet. Most would not put them thru unfavorable conditions (as much as it is in their power).

Rina

Gee, Joe, you kidding? 'Mother Nature' is only a figure of speech? GSOH gone AWOL here. I'll tell her what you said ;)

Thanks, marguerite, for your useful input.

My pleasure, Joe, believe me ::)

First of all, Al, reread my original post. I said, simply, "the couple of Jades I have had out for a few weeks now, in my view, have only benefited from the change." That is what I observed. You know nothing about where I am growing my plants, or the temperatures and conditions they receive, and you even said you do not grow Jades...

And I was replying to the original poster, not to you. That is why I said it was not about you. But you took it upon yourself to find fault with what little I said. If you think I am giving you persistent disagreement with anything you offer, you are even more egocentric than I thought. I have praised your expertise and your scientific knowledge in the past. But I do not praise arrogance or condescension.

By the way, the name is Christopher.

Marguerite, you are right.

Christopher

Al, is the trifurcation a bad thing for the plant? or is it more about esthetic preference?

Also, I'm a bit confused at this point. I've read/been told that if I want my plants to flower I need to replicate more of what the plant would experience in its natural habitat. I have a tendency to baby my plants so I thought letting them experience a little cold, similar to what they would get in nature, would be better for them.

And everyone... Can't we all just get along? :-)

When immediately after I explained why subjecting jades to cold temps is a limiting habit/practice, you mention how you put your plants outdoors in New England, and in your view they have benefited. You're free to believe whatever you like, but I hope the things I said ring true so others do not unnecessarily expose their plants to the limitations that come with exposure to chill. It wouldn't be fair to allow growers to believe there are no issues associated with low temps simply because they're not readily observable or someone doesn't think there are. The rest of your opinion is what it is. I don't mind if you express your unfavorable opinions about me, you've been doing that for years and I haven't squawked about it. Expressing your ire hasn't hurt my credibility, but this whole discussion hasn't done yours any favors. Why not let it rest or add something positive to the discussion?

I apologize for testing your patience, Sradleye

Al

Deva - it's an esthetic consideration. Branching plants that are apically dominant (more like trees instead of shrubs) tend to devote somewhere around 2/3 of their energy to the upper 1/3 of the plant. That works out ok in nature, but in containers, as the plant grows it starts to get visually top heavy with thick branches near the top of the plant. If you want to maximize the plant's eye appeal, eliminating the trifurcations will go a long way toward keeping the plant from getting so heavy in the top. If you look at a tree in the landscape, you'll note that the lower branches are the heaviest, and the branching pattern gets more and more twiggy toward the top. Eliminating the trifurcations and pinching the plant so the branches change directions not only helps you achieve a more pronounced branch taper, it also helps avoid the monotony of long, straight branches.

If you want your plant to bloom, you can take good care of it until it's sexually mature, then expose it to some chill when the dark period is increasing in length (technically, it's increasing night length + some chilling that stimulates budset, not decreasing day length). IOW, in Autumn. There is no advantage insofar as bloom induction is concerned in exposing the plant to chill when the dark period is decreasing, which would be Winter solstice through Father's Day.

Al

Yes, Al, my opinion is what it is, just as yours is. And I won't pretend to know what the plant is 'thinking', but I do know many succulents, including Jades and many cacti, NEED a cold period to bloom. And that is fact, not opinion.

Christopher.

I think I just mentioned more specifically how to use chill to improve bloom induction, so what you said is a given and not even in question. Putting jades out in the cold at this time of year simply has no upside. Keep in mind that chill is still a stress, employed by the grower to achieve a result the grower prefers. That would be like subjecting the plant to the stress of being root bound to avoid any chance of the plant being over-potted or allowing your jades to go completely dry between waterings to avoid any possibility the soil would remain soggy so long it impairs root health/function. Wouldn't it be better to avoid these limitations AND not have to accept a lesser evil by using a more appropriate medium that makes both issues nonissues? It's much better to give growers the information they need so they can make informed choices than to leave them thinking that because one person or 10 or 100 people choose to follow a certain path, it must not be a limiting path.

What I said in this thread really wasn't opinion, but as always, you're welcome to 'debunk' anything I said.

Al

Al, I appreciate you're response to my question. I will need decide what to do. As I said I'm liking the look right now, and I already pruned for this year. I think I will let it grow this year then chose one to cut and propagate next spring.

You liking your plant is the important thing. The pruning tips are just something that, at some point, can help a grower correct the direction a plant that's losing eye appeal might be taking, or help the grower retain or maintain lighter branching in the top - just another tool in your skill set when/if ever you need it.

Sometimes, our eye can look at a tree or shrub in the landscape or a pot and see that something doesn't look natural - like looking at a pine tree that splits into 2 trunks and co-dominant leaders about 6 ft above the ground. The eye sees the tree doesn't look natural with 2 heads, but the mind might not be able to define what's out of place until someone points out what's amiss - then we say, "Oh yeah".

Another consideration is, it's hard at first to have the confidence to start whacking away at a plant that looks good to you now for what you hope to be a better looking plant in a year or two. I've been helping a young veteran a little with bonsai, explaining some of the techniques we use to make sure the tree is something special a few years down the road. He brought a cherry tree he was proud/fond of that was blooming, and wanted to cut it back if that was the right thing to do. I wouldn't do it. There's no rush. Enjoy the blooms - enjoy the plant - let it grow for a few years and enjoy its form. As he grows in the art, he'll learn to see the results of sacrificing today's appearance for tomorrows promise. That's a lot to ask of someone.

Getting back to the 2 heads thing. Your jades will look better if you have a defined trunkline that starts at the base and ends up at the top as the tallest part of the plant, though it doesn't have to be tallest by a significant amount. All other branches should be subordinate to that leader, and a big cluster of thick branches at the top - all approximately the same diameter, is a condition worthy of the effort to avoid.

Have a good growing season!

Al

Al, you have written very long and comprehensive posts from time to time, but the sentence that resonates with me the most is this:

"You liking your plant is the important thing"

Never a truer word spoken.

Thanks Al! that makes me feel better about my decision to wait. I am really enjoying its form as it is right now. I prefer odd numbers and groupings of 3 are most appealing to me. I know I have this bias, so I ultimately don't want my bias to effect the health of my plant.

Here is a photo of another one that kinda looks like trifurication, but I dont think it is...

and the progression of the jade in question... top right = last year, then this past March, then right after I pruned it, then the two bottom left are showing new growth. It is looking a bit crowded, so I will see how it decides to grow. It was hard for me to prune it at all because I was loving how it looked but knew it was just too top heavy. I think if I had this information then I would've pruned differently, but I will have to see how this goes now.

M - The more reliable information a grower has to work with, the better enabled they are to get more from the growing experience and interact with their plants on increasingly rewarding levels (to like their plants and feel their directed efforts have been productive). Occasionally, things arise in a conversation that if not addressed, have the potential to detract from someone's growing experience. Everyone benefits when we take the time to provide not only reliable information, but also when we identify or qualify suggestions or practices with limiting potential. The very best we can do as growers is to identify/eliminate those things that limit our plants. The better we are at doing that, the more the potential for our 'liking our plants' increases.

I've always liked this quote:

"The destroyer of weeds,
thistles and thorns is a benefactor, whether he soweth grain or not." ~Robert
Ingersoll

Deva - the art of bonsai utilizes mostly odd numbers, too. When it comes to group plantings, we usually select 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9 as the number of trees in the planting. Once we get beyond 9, the eye can't discern between odd and even numbers.

Experimenting with the elimination of trifurcations on young material you don't have a lot invested in, in terms of time, would be a good way to hone your pruning skills. You could even start a thread you could return to and sort of document the plant's progress with before/after pictures and your comments/observations.

See you around the forums.

Al

up potting extravaganza has happened!

They all look great! I can't wait until mine get as big as those you got toward the right!

thank you. the Gollum on the far right is one of the older plants I have at around four years. so has struggled with me through years as I have advanced from idiot to beginner. hoping to really put on some size with the giant pot

I also put my jades out in April and have done so for a few years.. The temps drop in the lower-mid thirties all the time in April. My jades look great. That is in no way a shot at Tapla by the way. I feel like that goes without saying, but from what I'm reading in this thread, I feel I need to clarify LOL.

I think people are misinterpreting Al's point on the temperature thing. Will your jades survive those low temperatures? Yes. Will they look good after the warm summer? Yes. Would they have done better if NOT exposed to those low temperatures in spring? Probably. It's hard to say because you can't go back in time and change things for that exact plant, but the science is there; jades and other warm temperature plants do not appreciate the cold. Sure, they can survive it, but it definitely isn't optimal. In spring, I put my jades out during the day to soak up some rays, and bring them inside at night. Is it a hassle? Yes....I have 14 jades of different variety and size, but it takes only a few minutes to move them in and out, and I'm not so lazy to not do it. The bottom line is that Al is trying to dispel the false notion that leaving jades out in cold spring temperatures is somehow beneficial.

As for the blooming thing, they absolutely need the lower temperatures and longer nights, but that's in fall. Personally, I skip the blooming thing. In my experience, they bloom, and it seems to expend a lot of energy and they shut down for winter. If I bring them inside in fall to keep them warm, they definitely don't bloom, but they keep on growing right through winter. The blooms, while neat, aren't all that impressive to me, stop the growth of leaves and stems, and once done, fall off all over the floor and make a mess. I prefer growth over blooms.

Joe

Very well said, Joe.

Al