We recently looked at Thermaor, Sub zero and Miele columns side by side. We noticed a few subtle differences.

Miele columns: nicest fit and finish of the three. 24 inch freezer had more functional layout than the 24 inch Thermador. It looked like it would hold more.

Subzero columns: I like the internal water dispenser. The door swing has a narrower radius than Miele or Thermador (which is good) but doesn't open far enough for my taste. The fridge has this spill proof coating around the edges to contain spills. I got a demo of it and it really works. However it's not clear if it might wear off over time. I prefer the look of outside of the Miele Columns and Thermador columns better than the sub zero, but this is moot if they will be paneled. My physicist DH thinks Sub Zero appears to have the most advanced technology for preserving food, but we cannot find any independent tests to confirm this.

Thermador columns: the silver colored trim does not appear to be metal so it might wear off over time. Freezer layout less efficient than Miele. I didn't notice this until i saw Miele and Thermador columns side by side. While the fridge column is supposed to have spill proof shelves, the raised edge is only in front (the least important place. It is not spill proof on the sides or back so liquid could spill into the holes in the vertical rails in back. However, the significantly lower price compensates for a lot.

Stop it, you are torturing me! The Miele won't fit in my space so I am forced to look at alternatives. I am still leaning towards the Thermador, but there is the food preservation aspect of the Sub that has me holding back. I am sure to make the appliance store my second home for the next while.

If the Therm and Miele are as similar as xedos and others assert, then I don't see the food preservation issue as putting the SZ ahead. Again, no idea if the Thermador has the same keeping quality as my fridge. But I've had produce remain usable for a month in the crisper drawers. Fresh herbs used to rot in 3 days. I couldn't believe some I bought in those little plastic boxes were perfect after 3 weeks.

@sherri - Perhaps some Therm owners would chime in. Or, you could research older threads and email longtime owners.

Even LG can keep food like apples, celery, etc. for more than a month long. It really depends on the type of food and its initial state. I doubt 5 weeks or 4 weeks "fresh" guarantee makes much difference in practice, as some members agreed. Ideally, they should be consumed in the first week or two anyway. The internal layout, noise, efficiency, reliability, workmanship, brand reputation/recognition, even how productive it makes ice, etc. make more impact in my opinion.

They will all have separate compressors for the fridge and freezer which makes the biggest difference as it can put dry air in the freezer and more moist air in the fridge. SZ also has ethylene absorbers in its filtration system, but you can also purchase ethylene absorbing cartridges to place in your produce drawer...I have seen them at bed bath and beyond.

The one think I really like about the Thermador is the gallon bins in the doors...it doesn't seem as if SZ or Miele have those

As long as the evaporators are separate for fridge and freezer, the air is isolated from each other. Therefore the feature is also available in "low-end" fridges.

Which low end manuf. ( or mid level even ) put two evaporators in their fridges ??????????

LG, Samsung etc. all do. It's very common. LG's is called Smart Cooling Plus,and Samsung's Twin Cooling Plus.

Now if they only had the ability to be panelled and built in.....

@sherri - You have good choices. In a way you can't go wrong with either.

@rococogurl - thanks, I feel pretty confident about the quality of both. I haven't heard anyone telling me to run in the opposite direction, lol. It's a lot of money for a fridge, and I want to get it right, which is now pretty much all about layout, and hoping that I am making the right choice going with the columns or sxs as I have always just had a regular top or bottom mount fridge.

Thanks for the link WDC, but the filters don't work properly.

So with Therm it lays out to a 24" fridge column and an 18" freezer column vs SZ 42?

How does the SZ break down re fridge/freezer: Looks like 30 x 12?

If so, are you willing to sacrifice a bit on the fridge space for more freezer space? Years ago I had a sxs conventional fridge and it had a very narrow freezer that was an issue for me. My metric is can you get an ice cream cake in there?

Otherwise, looks to me like that's the bottom line overall (drawer configs & the 2 lower SZ shelves aside). And yes, it is a huge amount of money.

So so sorry Sherri. I am so disappointed you did not get the most out of the sort filter. Can you please email me the exact issue and I will be glad to look into it. My email is alex4243331123@gmail.com. Again I am very sorry about this. Alex

I am torturing myself, and now I am thinking even crazier thoughts! I spent some time at the appliance store today and made the mistake of looking at the Miele again..... I know, I should have just stayed away. Here is what I have:. The sxs sub zero is essentially a 25" plus 18" (25 because there is just the one wall that separates instead of the 2 you have when you buy separate columns. What I don't like about the Sub is the lighting.... Awful compared to the other choices .... And the compressor is at the top which means the produce drawer is on the floor. And as I mentioned earlier, the drawers don't do much for me. Taking another look at the Thermador, I am not sure how keen I am about the larger door bin on the 24" width. The display had a 90 degree opening, so the bin was really in the way for accessing the shelves. Might not be as bad on a wider fridge, or if the hinges can be adjusted so the door opens wider, but I would want to be certain I could live with it before I buy. Neither of them have the fit and finish and organization of the Miele. *Sigh* My next viewing was of the Sub columns. They were probably my 2nd pick after the Miele, but oh so expensive. Then I started wondering if I could get half of what I want, save a few thousand and do the Miele freezer (it comes in the size I need), and the Sub zero fridge column. I've gone off the deep end. Somebody just shoot me.

The doors on the threader definitely open more than 90 degrees, there was probably something in the way next to the display model preventing it from opening more than 90 degrees. Per the specs in the link, the door can open up to 115 degrees, which should allow full access to all the shelves

http://a7ced1f75a02a100d3a2-90d763fcf9b92a01a2bbdc9048c20c84.r80.cf1.rackcdn.com/T30IR800SP-30-INCH-FLUSH-CUSTOM-FRESH-FOOD-COLUMN-Specifications.pdf

Thanks malba. I will see if I can find a 24" that opens fully. I need to be sure that it is comfortable for me to get into.

It should open the same as the Miele. The hinge system (which looks to be very robust) is the same on both

@malba - two things that are different. The fact that the Miele fridge is 30 vs 24 plus the door bins on the Miele do not extend as far out. It is the combo of the two that, combined with the 90 degree opening is making me wonder if I can live with it or not. If I have to fight my way past door bins every time I need something in the fridge, well, I won't be happy.

@sherri1058. The thermador fridge comes in both 30 inch and 24 inch sizes. Yes the bins extend further...but that allows for gallon jugs in the door.

sherri1058, just a thought...since you are renovating anyway, have you considered putting a 36 panelled all-fridge in your kitchen and a inexpensive freestanding freezer in a pantry, landry room etc.? Freestanding autodefrost freezers (Amana, Frigidare, Whirlpool, GE) are typically under $1000. Then you could spend the money on your first choice fridge. You could also get a 36 inch pannel bottom freezer miele in kitchen and put a free-standing second fridge in pantry or laundry room. With either combo, you have more space in your kitchen and space in your fridge and freezer for wider items for wide items.

If you put in fridge and freezer columns fom different manufacturers, you cannot install them with a dual installation kit. You may need extra space between them to preserve the warranty.

You want to post your layout? Maybe that would help you get out of this "box."

I replied earlier, but my post disappeared! I am on my way to visit my KD, so will post (and repost) everything later. Thanks for all your help on this!

Hi there, I’m Sarah and I work with Sub-Zero and Wolf. If you haven't already done so, we’d love to invite you to visit a showroom. Seeing our different options in person could be really helpful, plus our staff is on-hand to answer any questions you may have and are more than happy to get into the details with you. Here’s a link to find the one closest to you - subzero–wolf.com/locator. I’d also be happy to answer any other questions you may have.

The more I look, the more I like the Miele. My kitchen can accommodate 42 inches of refrigeration. It is doable, just tight.

I currently have a 33" regular depth fridge that I am looking to replace with the 42" built-ins. There are 3 reasons for this, one is aesthetic - make the fridge disappear, the other reason is that I am tired of digging through the freezer drawers at the bottom to find what I need, and third I can afford the upgrade to something that does more than keep food cold. I also have a 36" bottom mount fridge in my pantry in the basement. I think the 48" is closest to what I have now in terms of space, but I don't think I can/want to afford the extra inches in my kitchen. I also currently lose things in the back of my current fridge which wouldn't be an option with a built-in..... forced organization!

@houztongirl - thanks for taking time to comment. I appreciate it. I am not considering adding fridge/freezer space anywhere else. My pantry and laundry room are both in the basement and I want access to both fridge and freezer in the kitchen. I don't know that the 36" bottom mount Miele would be big enough, plus it doesn't address the issue of having the frozen food in a drawer. I seldom have the need to store anything very wide (and if I did, I have the basement fridge). A 30" all fridge is likely more than I need and a 36" all fridge is definitely overkill. :)

@rococogurl - I posted my layout in the kitchens forum a couple months ago and took away some different ideas. Unfortunately, I am not very flexible in that no walls, doors or windows can be changed. If something jumps out at you I'd love to hear!

@sherri. I looked but not sure which is the final plan. There were so many and forgive me if I missed it but I didn't see what you're finally going with.

Have you finalized? What is the KD saying?

42" Miele? I only see 30" and 36" freezer/fridge on their web site and nothing adds uo to 42" with their columns. Are you not in the US? Do they not have all their products on the web site?

Or was the post about 'I think I want a 42" and I like Miele, but they don't have a 42".'

We have not finalized yet, but the consensus seems to be that a variation of Lisa's layout is good, but I have one person putting the 18" freezer where the dishwasher is, and the sink and dishwasher back on the island in order to put a counter to the right of the fridge to help open up that area by the door a bit more. Also, the oven/microwave s/b 30", the 99" wall is 96" which squeezes that wall a bit more. I haven't had that ah-ha moment yet where everything looks just right.

{{gwi:2137612}}

@barb - yes, the problem is that I want a Miele, but they don't have a 42" configuration! I am in Canada.

I don't consider LG and Samsung to be low end brands, but we can disagree on that.

But.................the models from them that have the feature you mention are roughly $3000 and up !

That is DEFINITELY NOT low end pricing

It's true that everyone talks about "high end" refrigerators and "not high end" refrigerators, but there's definitely a "middle class" too. On the lower end, fridges that cost in the $1500-$2000 range, middle, the ones xedos refers to that cost $3000-$5000, upper the others from Liebherr on the low end ($6000?) to Subzero on the high end ($10,000) with Miele and Thermador in between.

FWIW, if the oven/micro is 30" and the wall is 96", you have as I see it two choices - a 42" fridge and a 24" pantry (total 30+42+24=96) or a 48"" fridge and an 18" pantry (30+48+18=96). You'll probably have to make the pantry slightly smaller in either case to move the oven/micro cabinet a little bit away from the wall, and for the paneling on the side of the fridge next to the door.

I personally like the sink/dw out of the way as shown in the current drawing. You have plenty of space for a refrigerator landing on the island.

There are some issues with this layout. It happens when it's worked from a floor plan without elevations.

I feel confident I can find the 48" for the fridge/freezer columns if you are open to considering a few other changes.

Didn't follow this: "Also, the oven/microwave s/b 30", the 99" wall is 96" which squeezes that wall a bit more."

Is that fridge wall actually 99 or 96" to the opening?
Few kitchen plans are ideal. There are always compromises. My kitchen is essentially a hallway with no unbroken walls and 5 doorways LOL.

I can see many different ways to resolve things depending on what you want in the kitchen.

One thing that jumped out at me. If the door opening adjacent to the new millwork cabinet at the back door is closed up it accomplishes 2 things. 1 - it buries that odd-looking 8.5 x 9" support. 2 - It also could create a 72" cabinet/pantry opportunity on that wall. That would utilize the space better than the current cabinet planned IMO. It also could house a buffet/breakfast/coffee station/ additional fridge & freezer drawers, display cabinets, specialty drawers -- whatever you like. It doesn't affect access to the hallway or stairs since that's right there anyway.

@xedos – I’m pretty sure I never said that Samsung and LG units that are all low end, and I don’t think I said I wanted a high end unit either. The reason that I’m looking at the Miele, Sub Zero and Thermador is because I would like built in and I do not want water through the door, so after doing some research, those are the brands that I landed with. I’ve always had a “low end” fridge, so this is definitely a huge upgrade for me and I want to get it right. Although Samsung and LG do have good features, neither fit my criteria, otherwise I may have considered them as well.
@sjhockey – thanks, I agree that the island can be used as a landing spot, I do it now without any issues. Right now the doorway to the dining room is cramped physically and “in your face” visually, so we are just looking at various ways of changing that. I am torn between having the sink on the wall vs the island.
@rococogurl – I am open to changes. I know what works for me, but then again I am sure that there is something else out there that I’ve not thought of that would work better! This renovation is supposed to be about making the kitchen work for me, not me adapting to the kitchen’s quirks.
The oven/microwave s/b 30” – I believe that the plan shows a 24” cabinet for the microwave, in fact we need a 30” cabinet. The fridge wall is actually 96” to the opening, meaning I have even less space to squeeze everything in!
I think you may be referring to the seating that someone added to one end of the island. We do not want any island seating. We eat most meals in the dining room although we do have a small small bistro table in the upper corner of the adjacent sunroom. I love having an island and I do all of my prep there. I’d appreciate knowing why you say it isn’t working very hard for me – or what improvements I can make. It is definitely one area that I know could be better.
Re the 36” doorway….. my contractor has suggested closing it off, my designer has said no, I have a slight preference for leaving it open. The cabinet is actually a small coat closet with HVAC in the wall nearest the exterior door. Not sure why it is labeled new millwork – the only thing “new” about it is the door.

I think xedos was referring my saying "low end" LG/Samsung's have dual evaporator to achieve similar technical effect of dual compressor. I didn't meant bottom low low end. :-) But the these models, of course, are pretty low end comparing with Miele's etc.

Of course the kitchen must work for you! And what may seem logical or favorable to me may not work for you.

If you want the Miele columns the wall can lay out as follows: 48" for the fridge/freezer + a 10" pullout pantry + 32 inches for an oven cabinet + 3" clearance on each end. That totals 96". 3" is ok at the door end but I can't see how the oven and a micro can go smack against a wall without a few inches of clearance. Otherwise the oven door is too close when it opens and it will dwarf an issue like fridge door shelves that are too deep in the so-not-comfortable category. My Miele oven f.ex, requires a minimum 29-13/16" cabinet with the fascia. It's in a 32" cabinet so that's 1-inch on each side. That adds up to 4 inches of clearance against the wall.

What's not clear is which oven you are getting -- that can make a difference. Another factor would be where the micro is placed and which way that door swings. I don't think they are best installed above a wall oven but some do like that placement. There are at least 2 other places a microwave could go.

The above plan for the wall would look best with paneled fridge and,
depending on cabinet style, the wall would need to be coordinated nicely
so everything -- including the oven -- lines up.

Additionally -- and I'm just throwing this out -- a 48" dual fuel range vs a cooktop would take pressure off that wall entirely and allow two 30-inch columns.

There are other scenarios that I feel would make the kitchen work much more efficiently than this floorplan. If feel it ignores some basics that are usually done for workability.

It's a bit tricky since the plan you posted is not drawn to scale and scale is another element that can be hard to visualize but is very important when it's built.

If your contractor is suggesting that you close up the door I would take his advise. Unless you've got some amazing reclaimed beam in that spot it is a very odd and irregular shape that would best be buried.

@rococogurl – thanks for taking a look at this. Let me see if I can address a few of your concerns. First, the only measurement that was off was the dining room wall. My bad. Other than that, it is my architect’s drawings, and I have double and triple checked the measurements, so all walls should be to scale.
I would like to take my contractor’s advice about the doorway, but fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it) my designer has better credentials. Much better credentials, so I am torn.
The micro/oven is not a microwave oven above another oven, it is a 30” Gaggenau combi steam oven (I can’t believe you cannot read my mind lol!).
I will either do the 30” Miele range or 30” cooktop with a wall oven below (I think).
I know the post looks odd on paper, but IRL it makes sense – you will have to trust me on that!
There are just the 2 of us, so we don’t need a lot of fridge/freezer storage. Based on what I have now, I think the 36 bottom mount would be a bit small, mainly because of the freezer space, the 42 seems pretty good and 48 would be the absolute maximum. I know that you have a 36” bottom mount and you can’t believe how much room you have. What are you comparing it to?
I hired another designer today (unfortunately won’t be able to meet with her for another week because of her schedule). She comes highly recommended, so I am looking forward to her perspective as well.
I am mulling over the appliance wall and still dying to know what changes you would make to my island.

Re the fridge. I've had two 36" bottom mount fridge/freezers. Also had a 30" in our apartment. We are two. The big difference with the Miele is that the bottom door shelf holds 7 half-gallon containers, all our drinks. That clears the shelves. However, I have a garage fridge for drinks storage as I have over a dozen half-gallons of drinks on hand always. That will die soon. I can replace it for $400 and it will have a more usable (wider) top freezer.

In the past, I've had 2 sxs fridges (the PO's in the garage is a 90s vintage sxs). Just don't care for sxs as I find the freezers are too narrow. If I needed additional interior freezer space I'd install a pair of drawers which are 24" w.

You mentioned you're going with a new designer. Glad to hear that. IME when someone is asking for layout help on GW and has a designer (most don't) they have the wrong designer.

I don't know what you want in detail, haven't physically been in the space which I feel is very important and don't know you and don't know your aesthetic. So I can only tell you what I would do if I had that space or if I was advising a friend or client. It may take me a day or two to sketch it. Undoubtedly that will offer some things you may already have seen and perhaps something new.

Do you entertain a lot, or live so far from a supermarket that you can only shop infrequently (I know rococogurl lives in a rural area)? I simply can't imagine why you would need 48" of fridge and freezer for two people! I'd have to fill mine with containers of water just to keep it full. (Note: we have a 30" bottom freezer and it's plenty big for us for 3 people).

Thank you both. I appreciate that you listen to me as I agonize over this. You've given me lots of great advice and lots for me to think about. I have decided that I am being silly looking at the 48" fridge just because I want the Miele columns. Doesn't mean that I won't still want it or talk about it, but in my heart I know that it isn't the right choice. I had ruled out the 36" Miele because I am currently fixated on the columns and because the freezer doesn't give me quite enough space. Maybe I should reconsider.

@rococogurl - I thought you asked me what I thought about my island and said you didn't think it was working very hard for me, but that part of the post seems to have disappeared. My question about the island related to your comment. I thought something jumped out at you and I am curious what it was.

The last plan posted had a whopping big 9-foot long island I felt was underutilized. It also had everything jammed in around the small window in a place I saw as a choke point. I understand trying to get the main sink closer to the dining room. But the physical givens and dimensions tell me another story. Humor me. There are no bad options. This is great space.

The story I see is that the island should run from the edge of the range area to the edge of the window. That looks to be 9' plus or minus a few more inches by 30 inches wide. That should provide the recommended 48" wide main aisle for the 9' of the most active kitchen space.

The range or rangetop has a logical niche. With a 36" range/rtop there is about 18 inches of useable space and drawer banks on each side. With a rangetop there can be drawers below -- additional pot storage.

A main galley aisle like this most often has the sink centered on the island across from the range. That can line up nicely with the niche. A 30" sink allows an 18" trash bin on the right and the DW on the left with 5 feet of counter/prep space to the left of the sink and 18" on the right.

As drawn on the last plan, the window area looked unbalanced. And I felt the 24" deep cabinet there created a choke point. I thought a prep sink about the same size of the window would look good. It wouldn't make the window look weensy. Don't know the style you favor but I could see a small (24") Kohler Gilford there in a bumped out 24" x24" deep cabinet there with 18" base cabinets on either side of the sink. There could be 12" uppers above those or open shelving flanking the window. Tile could be very effective in that area.

Ending the island just before the sink has a purpose. The length should be whatever it takes to create a 54" aisle between the end of the island and the fridge wall. So a choke point turns into a secondary prep space with decent storage on each side of the sink.

That 54" aisle permits 2 things: Ample space for the fridge to open and for something to open or pull out of the end of the island facing the fridge. That something could be an oven of some type, a set of freezer drawers, open basket pull outs, or even a set of dishwasher drawers. It could be storage pull outs or just shelves. There could be a lighted cabinet with glass doors there too.

Sooner or later there will be a decision on the fridge. Whether it's 36, 42 or 48 it can be made to fit on the 96" wall. That has a domino effect on the cabinet between the fridge and the steam oven, provided that is against the wall. The only other location I see for the steam oven is in the end of the island facing the fridge.

I look at the steam oven specs -- I wasn't familiar with either of the Gagg steam ovens. There appears to be several important requirements. One is some heatproofing, another is the water supply (no problem with the fridge a few feet away) and the third is a drain that is accessible. I think the steam oven specs really bear a conversation with the contractor or Gaggenau support to see what the drain access entails. If it's too difficult perhaps a speed oven could serve.

I don't love any oven in a corner. The only way to get a pantry there -- which would be the best arrangement in my view -- is to use a range and have the steam oven in the end of the island. That makes island work harder but decreases storage slightly.

Rangetop leaves space for pot and pan storage below. But then the logical thing is to put both ovens of the same brand in a stack on the end of the fridge wall with enough spacing to make them workable. That's a walk from the main cooking area. But it also doesn't create oven heat when the cooktop is used -- my primary objection to my DD's Wolf dual fuel. Generous prep sink under the window works for that end and bumped out is super comfortable. The island is right there and there's plenty of setting down space.

The island might be able to go 36" wide all the way -- not sure. That depends on the aisle clearance along the hallway wall and near the post. Just couldn't tell what that should be. 48" is recommend but I suspect that's something like 39 with a 30-inch wide island.

These two sketches were very quickly done. Unless I measure myself I don't vouch for any measurements. So they are just ideas.

The logical place to me for charging station, keys etc is that 36" space you don't want to close up. It looks to be near the back door & out of the food prep areas. Alternately, that space could be a sizable pantry. Charging etc could move next to the fridge in a drawer in an under/over cabinet which also could house baking equipment storage or breakfast stuff.

Do apologize for writing in all directions on the plan. I just noticed LOL. Probably best to print them out.

Wow, thank you for that thoughtful and detailed response. I feel negligent for not responding earlier but I have been running all day with meetings with my contractor. a cabinet company I am considering and appliance sales people, and am just now getting to my computer. The Contractor has given me some good news which frees up space on my kitchen window wall which in turn may increase my options. Cabinet company wants to close off the window and I think the appliance guy probably feels like he is being stalked. My new designer is coming on Thursday, so perhaps now I can feel better about making decisions! I will take a closer look at your comments and sketches and be back later! Thanks again.

Back to the topic of the thread!
I am also researching new fridge for an upcoming complete kitchen remodel. I had an Amana Kenmore side by side refrig that was a 25 yo work horse when we moved into this house. It did not fit the space allocated and was an almond color that did not go with the other ss appliances. It was relegated to the garage. We bought a new GE Profile ss side by side and that was a huge mistake! It lasted 6 years then froze all the produce every third day requiring me to use my hair dryer to thaw out the back wall of the vegetable bins, a real PINTA! I replaced that with my sister in laws 25 yo Sub zero that she was replacing when she remodeled. I refinished the panels on the doors to match the color of my kitchen and we had to have a repair of the ice maker, about $500. It has been 4 years and that SZ is still running great, very solid. The Amana in the garage has been very loud and we know it is an energy guzzler too, but it was well made never had a repair! We replaced the Amana in the garage with a Samsung FD and it is fine for parties and large trays.
Now I do not know what to do about replacing the old sub zero. I really love the side by side and the large space, it is a 48", and I use every inch of it as well as the garage refrig and there are only 2 of us! I buy in bulk, store drinks and freeze vegetables from the garden. The new sub zero same size built in does not have the newer lighting. The interior has more plastic, I like the coated metal baskets on the older model. The integrated SZ has better lighting but is way more expensive. The Thermador is nice, better lighting than SZ BI, plastic bins same as SZ but with a fake metal finish on the edges not sure how that will wear. The Thermador integrated columns same price almost as SZ BI. NO water in refrig NO door dispensers for me.
If I buy new SZ BI I can canabolize the interior shelves and baskets and use in new fridge I think. That won't help the lighting but I can live with that if new model functions for 25 plus years! The Thermador is nice but if the issues others have reported regarding noise, leaking, reliability etc are more than just reported on GW that would be an expensive mistake.

Anyone bought a subzero in the last few years and have you had problems? How about the Thermador how does the finish on the shelf edges and freezer racks hold up? Maintenance issues on either?
Thanks

Unless you can revamp the space, the thermador columns are unlikely to fit in your space. They would require a cutout of 48" x 84" plus 2 bottom mounted outlets (your space is probably 47 1/2" x 83 1/2"). Not that this is impossible to convert over, but be aware that it may not be as simple as removing the old sub and sliding those puppies in. Also if you do, they are unlikely to sit flush as you see them in a showroom because in all likelihood your space is 24" deep.

The thermador built in, is a dressed up kitchen aid. OK unit but not as solid as a subzero in my opinion, and also a single compressor unit so its at a disadvantage.

The subzero old shelves will not fit in the new one. Not a chance. The plastic shelves, as plastic as they are will hold your food just fine and probably last you as long as the refrigerator. Plus subzero is very nice, in the event you do crack one, call them and more than likely they'll just send you a new one if you complain about it.

My Thermador builtin has dual compressors.

If its a 42" or 48" built in (1 piece, not columns) then no it does not. If its a 36" bottom mount built in the last 5-7 years (IE built in turkey by BSH) than yes it does.

Thanks for the input! It will be a total gut of kitchen with new configuration so I can pick whatever I want, Yeah!
I just watched the video for SZ and reviewed the new Integrated units and their technology. So the the old shelves may or may not fit but the new ones have the anti spill spread technology that I like. I can live with the different materials.
The Thermador I was comparing to were columns and they had dual compressors.

So after looking again at these units and reviewing the new technology of the SZ integrated system vs older SZ built in, I am inclined to go SZ integrated, if I can afford the size I need. Given the garage refrig space I am rethinking what size I need in the kitchen, lol. Maybe I can be more flezible and try the large single door refrig over freezer drawer comb.

Has anyone here used the relatively new Pirch appliance showroom and purchased from them? How was the delivery service and maintenance they provide?

SZ is the only one that has the patented Air Purification System to minimize food spoilage. Additionally, their warranty is best in the business. Downside could be service for your area, depending on where you live.

http://www.subzero-wolf.com/assistance/answers/air-filter-information

That's true, but all the high end fridges have their own filters and preservation systems, and from what I can tell, they all work well and do a great job of preserving food longer than they should considering that we're talking about spoilage prevention rather than nutrient retention. :)

Here is my professional opinion. Subzero- Wolf and Miele are one in the same. Miele makes Subzero-Wolf's dishwashers, sort of like how Bosch makes the dishwashers on the Thermadors. Subzero definitely has the leg up on innovation when it comes to refrigeration, they also offer more of a non-built-in or non-column set ups. With that being said they will run you much more than a Thermador, and their innovation is where the leg up ends.

Thermador is by far the best refrigerator that is on the market today, they are called, "fresh food columns" with the industry leading and original air purifications system, and cold air burst for the doors and each individual shelf. Sorry to the person above who said SZ was the only one with that system, which just simply is not the case. Nor does SZ have the best warranty in the industry, it mirrors that of both Thermador and Viking; however depending on the area you are in, it could be either easier or harder to receive services.

Thermador has more serviceable areas as a company. SZ routinely has a lot more service calls for mundane issues that Thermador never has.

For $30,000 you can get a full Thermador kitchen or you can get a Subzero-Wolf kitchen for roughly $70,000.

Hope this helps.

Subzero dishwashers are made by Asko not Miele as far as I know.