City dweller needs raised bed soil help

9 years ago

I am making a raised bed vegetable garden. I want to add the best mix of soil available. Because I live in the city, many of the ingredients mentioned here are not available. Everything must come from a garden center. Is it even possible to make a good soil mix this way?

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Comments (12)

daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
9 years ago
I know people who would say that the best mixes come from a garden center. So you've been raised right. Not sure what kind of city you're talking about, but most cities have garden centers that offer quality bulk mix. That is, you don't need to be hauling prepackaged stuff, and you can actually look at what you're buying. That is, what you buy at a garden center can be all the way from crummy to very good. I would find a garden center (or a gardener friend) you trust, and just get their advice.
digdirt2
9 years ago
How big a raised bed? You can fill one with bags of potting mix, bags of compost, and some bags of potting soil mixed in. Most all garden centers carry all those supplies in various size bags. But buying by the bag at a garden center can get quite expensive if you are planning a garden of any size.

Dave
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I don't usually disagree with Dan about any of the advice he provides, but I am going to offer a different opinion this time :-) One of the primary benefits of raised bed gardening is that it enables the gardener to garden under soil conditions that makes inground gardening challenging - like with heavy clay soils, poor drainage, inappropriate pH, etc. So the 'need' to incorporate the existing, underlying soil into the raised bed soil does not necessarily track. By definition, raised beds offer improved drainage over inground soils -- just by virtue of the soil level being raised but also because raised beds do not offer impervious containment and because the soil tends to be of fluffier, lighter texture; i.e. 'fast draining'. So the mixing of the two soils is not a requirement. However, if your raised beds are not deep, the underlying soil easily workable and you are interested in planting deep rooted plants or veggies, incorporating the two may be desirable. As to what to fill them with, it depends on what you can find easily, locally and inexpensively. If you need a quantity, bulk soils will always be cheaper than bagged soils. And most bulk soil providers will offer something called a 'garden planting mix' or a '3-way mix' that is pretty much an ideal blend for a raised bed. Typically it is a mix of loam (sometimes 'topsoil'), some sort of compost or composted manures and a drainage enhancer - could be bark, sawdust, sand, even perlite. In lieu of that, try a 50-50 mix of 'topsoil' (or whatever generic soil they offer) and compost. And make sure the stuff is well-blended. Because raised beds typically offer quite fast drainage compared to inground soils, moisture retention is sometimes critical. In hot weather, raised beds do tend to dry out faster. Mulching is typically the best way to reduce evaporation and conserve moisture but frequent watering may still be required anyway.
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You didn't state your zone location. In my area of western WA with dry summers & wet mild winters drainage is utmost because things rot in our cold wet soils if I don't amend soil for fall/winter crops. We need to add lime yearly due to the heavy rain leaching the soil. You could consult the county extension gardening resources or consult a local independent nursery for more information about the soils in your area. Mixing it up now sounds like a good idea. Mulch plants after planting. Add compost after harvest. Keep putting organic matter back in on top of the soil & the worms will work it in the rest of the way. You won't have to dig through & mix it all up again. The beauty of raised beds is that you only dig once. If you're planting transplants you could just part the layers & plant them. Seeds will need fine soil so they can break through. Chunks make it more difficult for them. I agree about allowing space for mulch to hold the moisture & provide some frost protection if your climate warrants.
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It is not "wee critters that munch on the wood" that causes the problem - it is how well the wood will hold up to soil moisture. Wood exposed to water rots, some woods faster than others. Douglas fir is not all that long lived when in contact with moisture....only 3-6 years. Pine ditto. But cedars (western red cedar, Alaska cedar, incense cedar and eastern red cedar) are very rot resistant, as is redwood, black walnut, white oak and eucalyptus - anywhere from 10-25 years. Treated doug fir is also good (up to 30 years) but untreated, not at all. And a liner can extend the life of raised bed wood just by virtue of keeping wet soil from direct contact. As to soil appropriate to a raised bed, garden soil enriched with some compost works perfectly fine - you don't need to get overly creative in the mix. A raised bed is just an elevated garden bed, nothing more. If you do not have sufficient soil available to fill your beds, bagged garden soil or bulk 'garden mix' will work perfectly well although I'd want to add some OM if none included in the mix. Raised beds sometimes have solid bottoms and are sometimes located on solid surfaces like driveways or patios but open to the ground on the bottom is most desirable, especially for good drainage. So no rock or stone base. This also allows deeper rooted plants to penetrate down into the indigenous soil as well. Decent drainage is usually a given, just based on the bed's elevation. The "standard" configuration for a raised bed is one that is 8' long by 4' wide. This allows the gardener to access all the plants easily by reach alone without actually entering the bed itself. Height is your choice - if you are growing deeper rooting plants, you might want a deeper bed - but anywhere from 8-16" is about ideal. Obviously the deep the bed, the more soil required. Watering can be done with a soaker hose, drip, by hand or with a sprinkler - it really doesn't matter as long as the plants receive adequate moisture as needed.
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Douglas Fir appears to last longest in raised beds and liners do little to slow the wee critters that munch on the wood. How thick the boards should be depends on how high the beds will be. One garden around here has 1 x 6 boards, one high, and is more to define the bed than to raise if. Another garden, 10 blocks away, used 2 x 8 boards with 6 x 6's upright for the corners. Those beds are about 4 feet tall to accommodate seniors. Soil is composed of the mineral (the sand, silt, and clay), organic matter, air, and water. A good all around soil for a garden is loam, a mix of about 45 percent sand, 25 percent silt, 25 percent clay and 5 percent organic matter. Perhaps this link will be of some help. https://hort.purdue.edu/ext/loam.html Some may suggest buying something called "topsoil". "topsoil" is just the soil on top and it might be something worthwhile (see the loam) or something disastrous and not worth the cost. Perhaps this link will be of some help. http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/the_shocking_truth_about_topsoil If the soil put into the raised bed is close to that outlined above drainage will not be a problem, unless the beds are built on top of non draining soil. Perhaps this link may be of some help. http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/lawn-garden/how-to/g92/build-raised-garden-beds/ kimmq is kimmsr
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Cheryl Sommardahl
Original Author
9 years ago
At this point, I am using 2- 2x2x6' & 2- 1x2x6' livestock watering tanks along with a few other small boxes. I plan on putting some plastic jugs etc. in the bottom of the big tanks to take up some space (save on soil). I do not have a way to haul loose material.
digdirt2
9 years ago
6 foot deep? Do you have a way to cut those tanks down by at least half to 3' deep, 2 foot deep would be better? Since you'd have to punch big drain holes in them anyway try to find a way to cut them down. Personally I wouldn't use them as it can bankrupt you trying to fill some that deep when most of the fill will be wasted anyway. And filling them with jugs etc. will only cause drainage and settling problems. Why not consider switching to regular container gardening instead?

Dave
Cheryl Sommardahl
Original Author
9 years ago
I may have misrepresented the sizes. they are 2' tall, 2' across & 6' long.
digdirt2
9 years ago
Ahh much better. Perfect depth. :)

Dave
planterjeff
9 years ago
1/3 compost 1/3 peat 1/3 vermiculite. You can find all three of these at HD or Lowes. Just get different kinds of compost. Some major cities have free compost as well.
digdirt2
9 years ago
<1/3 compost 1/3 peat 1/3 vermiculite.>

Plus some soil for the minerals and active soil bacteria it contains.

Dave
scarlettfourseasonsrv
9 years ago
I made a real nice raised bed garden to plant some veggies in and then
bought a bunch of potting soil at Walmart, finishing it off with many
bags of EarthGro Potting Soil and EarthGro Steer Manure and "compost".

My epiphany came too late after I'd spent a lot of time, and money when
I checked with SourceWatch:http://www.sourcew
atch.org/index.php/SourceWatch

and googled in EarthGro. The following is what I found:

"Paul
Sellew is s a CEO of Harvest Power. Paul also founded Earthgro, which
is the second largest producer of biosolids-based lawn and garden
products. Paul was a senior executive with Synagro. He also founded
International Process Systems, AllGro, Environmental Credit Corp, and
Backyard Farms.[1]"

Just in case you didn't know, biosolids is
another name for sewage sludge. I don't know about you, but I am not
going to eat vegetables grown in sewer sludge which contains God only
knows what besides human crap. Now, I'm going to have to use my nice
raised bed for Remedial plants such as sunflowers to decontaminate this
soil if it's ever to be used again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoremediation

In
view of this information, I'm wondering just how many of the
non-organic fruits and vegetables are being grown in soil contaminated
by biosolids, aks toxic sewage sludge and sold to Americans without our
knowing it?

" http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Biosolid... ;
Biosolids
is the Orwellian PR euphemism for toxic sewage sludge. The name was
created and chosen in a PR contest by the lobby association for sewage
industry, the Water Environment Federation (WEF). For more background
see also The EPA's plan to bypass opposition to sewage sludge disposal
and You say biosolids, I say sewage sludge. There is now a SourceWatch
Portal on "Biosolids" Beyond biosolids, the sewage sludge industry now
puts its waste product into bags labeled "compost" and promotes them
through US Composting Council, BioCycle and other front groups and
partners.

Beginning in the 1990's the WEF, with the active
encouragement and approval of the Environmental Protection Agency,
pushed for the disposal of sewage sludge on farm land after bans were
imposed on dumping it in the ocean or incinerating it. The name change
of sewage sludge to "biosolids" was crucial the image makeover for
sewage sludge, a classic industry-government campaign of greenwashing to
change the public perception of toxic sewage sludge from an accurate
one of "hazardous waste" to the misleading image of biosolids
representing safe "beneficial reuse," responsible "recycling" and
healthy "organic fertilizer," lately including the ruse of sewage sludge
as "organic compost."

A list of just some of the hazardous
chemicals and pathogens found in sludge can be found in the article
Sludge contaminants. Sludge contaminants include Dioxins and Furans,
Flame Retardants, Metals, Organochlorine Pesticides,
1,2-Dibromo-3-Chloropropane (DBCP), Naphthalene, Triclosan,
Nonylphenols, Phthalates, Nanosilver, and thousands more substances.
"Sewage is the mix of water and whatever wastes from domestic and
industrial life are flushed into the sewer.... We must note that, though
the aim of sewage treatment is to produce clean water, it is never to
produce 'clean' sludge. Indeed, the 'dirtier' the sludge - the more
complete its concentration of the noxious wastes - the more the
treatment has done its job.... very waste produced in our society that
can be got rid of down toilets and drains and that can also be got out
of the sewage by a given treatment process will be in the sludge. Sludge
is thus inevitably a noxious brew of vastly various and incompatible
materials unpredictable in themselves and in the toxicity of their
amalgamation, incalculably but certainly wildly dangerous to life." [1]
digdirt2
9 years ago
scarlettfourseasonsrv - I think you may wish to explore the issue a bit more before making so many unsubstantiated claims. Are you aware of the personal agenda of SourceWatch? If not I'd suggest you explore that issue as well before blissfully imparting the labels of truth and objectivity to the info they provide.

For example:

Biosolids is not an Orwellian PR euphemism for toxic sewage sludge. The biota used by Harvest Power is listed on their website as "food scraps and yard wastes" - aka compost.

Paul Sellew is no longer a CEO of Harvest Power. Kathleen Ligocki is. Paul Sellew is a member of the board of directors and an acknowledged co-founder. http://www.harvestpower.com/company/leadership/

Google reveals you have copied this exact same post on several other forums as well. So one has to ask exactly what is your agenda? Perhaps pushing links to Source Watch? To cast aspersions on the organic foods industry? Or just to discredit Paul Sellew, an acknowledged leader in the field of organic agriculture.

What you choose to use in your own garden is of course your choice but I strongly encourage you to not buy into what are noted fear-mongering sources for your information.

Dave
Mark Tele
6 years ago
Dave Dirtdiggler; The "organic compost" deception used by Earthgro, Kelloggs, Uranus Corp and their ilk is enough for me to avoid their "products". All I want is actual steer manure and I don't want to have to do the research you suggest. Your motives are suspect as well.
nancyjane_gardener
6 years ago
Find a landscape place that has different soils and give them the dimensions of your containers.Let them know it's for veges. You might get by with 1/4 yard, or 1/2 yard. Go ahead and get it delivered this first time! It's worth it! I would go with a larger amount because the volume is going to settle over time and you can cover the excess and add to the bins later along with compost as needed.

I'm new to small in town gardening and will probably use the same containers starting next year. May I ask what you paid for them? Nancy

City dweller needs raised bed soil help

Comments (12)

daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)

digdirt2

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City dweller needs raised bed soil help

Comments (12)

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