I'm not a great rose identifier -- just not observant enough -- so I hope someone else will chime in. You sent us some very useful pictures and they tell us a lot. We know that your rose has red flowers that bloom in large clusters; that the rose blooms themselves are semi-double; that the foliage is dark green but not particularly shiny; and that the leaves are arranged in the form of seven leaflets. We know how big the individual roses are in comparison to a human hand. We have also seen one of the hips. We know that this is a rose that can survive in zone 5, so it is not a rose such as a china or tea that requires a mild winter for survival. It also does not have the form of a rambler unless someone has been pruning it pretty heavily.

I did think of a few questions whose answers might be useful, again for someone better at this game than I am myself.

First and most important, does this rose rebloom more than once each spring/summer, or does it have one good period of bloom, then wait until the following year to bloom again? Do you have any idea when it may have originally been planted? Knowing this could give us a clue as to how old it might be. Also, I see that a lot of the cane is smooth but I do see some prickles (thorns), and the picture shows the shape of those thorns very nicely. Have you noticed whether or not there are also thorns on the back of the rib supporting the leaflets? Finally, is the rose fragrant? Some roses are fragrant to some people but not others, so do please tell us if the rose has no scent to your nose, but that your grandmother finds it delightfully perfumed, or vice versa!

And I do hope someone is a clever enough detective to give you the answer you are seeking.

Rosefolly

Hi Grant. Would it be possible to get CLEAR close-up pics of the prickles on the main canes, and of the pedicles - the little individual flower stems, including the receptacle - the swelling below the flower?

Does the flower have any scent and can you describe it?

Can you give us an estimate of when these roses may have been planted, and give us an idea of where your g-g-grandmother's home is?

What is the approximate height and width of each plant, and is this their normal maximum, or have they been kept pruned?

Any or all of these would help us ID these roses.

Comtesse :¬)

Whoops - cross-posted with you, Rosefolly!

Lots of questions for you Grant!

With all those buds, think it could be Eutin?

I wish I could give you guys more info! I didn't pay much attention to roses last year, but I will definitely will watch how this plant grows. The house is in town next to several other town homes, but the house has been vacant for awhile. The rose is in a somewhat shady area with several giant tree nearby. I remember thinking that it looked like that it hasn't been pruned for several years. I cant remember if the rose had a scent or not, or was re blooming.

Grantgarden2

Colonel Mustard did it in the dining room with the candlestick.

The pictures are current, the rose is in Texas, and the ID is a red china like Louis Philippe.

Both guesses make an equal amount of sense.

I wonder if that could be 'Dr. Huey' rootstock after the top died off. Hmmm....

:-)

~Christopher

Like Christopher, Dr. Huey rootstock crossed my mind as well. If it isn't blooming all over the place right now, it soon will be.

I thought about Huey -- but I don't think this is that. The foliage doesn't seem quite right.
But I'll tell you what -- If you go to Dr. Huey at HelpMeFind:
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.1550

go to PHOTOS, and go back through the older ones. You'll find several detail images of Huey's "parts" that might help either rule him in or out.

And I'd still like to know how long these roses have been there.

I don't think its a dr. Huey. Doesn't it have long rambling stems? I don't think the bush has been pruned in a long time and it was about as tall as 5 feet? Wouldn't a dr. Huey unpruned for several years by much taller than 5 feet tall? I could be wrong, I don't grow a lot of roses due to having +50 knockout roses removed from one of my flowerbeds due to the roses rosette virus. **update** I asked my grandma and she said the roses were planted when they got the house in 1958. She thinking they may have gotten the roses from earl may. Hope this helps out any better!

Grant

What about Alameda's suggestion? Eutin looks pretty much spot-on to me, even though I'm not 100% sure about the shape of the buds. But so much else DOES look right - in addition to HMF, have a look at a post from May 2011 entitled 'Eutin' (search Houzz using the box at top of page); this also includes a link to ARE's description.

Things that seem right:

Exceptionally high number of buds/flowers per spray, each spray supported by a long stem*

Sprays and upper canes virtually prickle-free

Purplish colour upper canes

No of leaflets and shape (colour may be right too, though harder to tell)

Height and habit seem about right

Date/era fits (introduced 1940)

Recommended for some shade, so would have been a sensible choice for that situation

DublinBay described it as 'the Knockout rose of its era' - therefore, a popular/common choice for relatively care-free landscape use, especially for beginners. Also, apparently it's quite similar-looking/colour to red Knockouts

*If the bushes in question haven't been nurtured or pruned in recent years, it might fit with those flower clusters not being quite as large and dense as in many pics. Also, increasing shade would be a factor in less bloom.

As for the buds and flowers, perhaps someone who grows it could comment, since I'm only going by photos and descriptions? Buds in Googled photos look a little rounder/fatter than these, and petal count generally a bit higher - but could this be due in part to lack of nutrients/water? The precise shade of red is, as usual, hard to judge from photos.

Comtesse :¬)

I was thinking Dr. Huey at first too, but like someone said above, the foliage isn't quite right. I think they have a more vivid, dark green. The leaves are also not so long, and maybe are smaller. Also, at least on mine, the flowers don't usually have so many, wavy petals. I know it's not much help to say what it's not, and not what it is, but it's a start. But don't count my word as true, that's just my opinion of course. :) Anna

'Eutin' blooms in huge sprays and the flowers are small, less than 2". Could be...
pictures of my Eutin

I took some photos of the bush today. I tried to get good pictures of the canes and the thorns.

Hoovb, I saw your blog when I was looking up the name 'Eutin'. The blooms indeed look very similar!

oh Wow, Hoovb! I loved your blog post. So funny. And, yes, that is definitely a one stem bouquet. I'm hoping to get something like those from my Marie Daly one day.

Are the individual blooms too big, though, to be Eutin? I've seen one reference that says 2 - 3 inches, but others say only 1/2 - 2 inches, like Hoov's, and most just say 'small'...

The only Dr Huey's I've seen (which were very overgrown rootstocks) all had fairly distinctive white/light centres behind the stamens which I don't see in Grant's rose - although maybe we just didn't see them clearly in these particular photos, and/or maybe DH doesn't always have them? The habit did seem more trailing/arching to me, too, from memory. Anyway, I should think Grant could take a look at the bottom and see whether or not they were rootstock, by whether the canes are growing from below a bud union or not.

Comtesse :¬)

I am voting for Eutin also - there is one pic of a hip which seems to match those on HMF, in addition to everything else. Grantgarden - when these roses bloom, I would suggest that you post more pictures on here. Question - you said that the house is vacant - does your family still own it? Asking because perhaps your mother or grandmother (or you!) would like to have this rose in your garden. You could root a cutting - it is easy. More fun - the rose 'Eutin' is still in commerce. You could buy one, and plant it, and then compare it to your great grandmother's rose.

Are you interested in gardening and roses personally, or are you just helping your grandmother with the computer? I hope the former - finding an interest in one rose is how many of us got interested in roses. Welcome to the Antique Rose Forum, and I hope to see more pics of this rose later in the Spring!

Jackie

Jackie, just wondering what is HMF? My grandma still owns the house, and when I when to take more pictures of the roses, it looked like there was a row of peony's coming up. So I'm excited to find out what color they turn out to bloom. Funny thing is I always liked the roses at this house, but I noticed that it always seemed like no one was there and I didn't know who lived there. Last summer I pointed out the house to my mom and she said that grandma owns the house and that our g-g-grandma used to live there. So I'm excited to see what comes up from the ground. I have always been interested in garden since I was little. I am used to grow a couple roses, but after losing +50 of the knockout roses. It has made me a little Leary to grow roses. I have looked at all of the knock out roses in my neighborhood and they all have signs of the rose rosette virus. I will take several cuttings this summer and grow it out. I may even buy a 'Eutin' rose and compare it as it grows.

Grant

Grant HMF is the acronym for Helpmefind.com, "the" online site for roses, clematis & peonies.

HMF is a web site called "Help Me Find/roses" - just google it and it will pop up. You can look up any rose if you know its name. Across the top are buttons - one of them says "buy from", and tells you which nurseries sell that rose. Note - be sure and click on the button way at the bottom of the list - it will show all of the nurseries. Otherwise, the first list you see is only nurseries who donate to Help Me FInd.

Great that your family still owns the property - you now have access to family heirloom plants! Also, you know that this rose grows and survives in your climate. If you can get your grandmother's permission, you might even want to transplant one of the bushes to your garden - now while it is still dormant is a good time to do that. Of course, you have to wait until the ground is not frozen. Then you just figure out where one of the roses is, and cut it WAY back - I mean, to about 18 inches high. Then you dig it up very carefully, trying to get as much of the root ball as possible - get a shovel and dig straight down all around it, at least 12-18 inches away from where the canes are coming up. Then, dig a LARGE hole in your garden, and plant it, adding "planting mix" to fill up the hole, and water it in well. Then, do not feed it or spray it - just make sure it stays moist. At first it will "do nothing", because it is growing roots under the ground where you cannot see them. Then, after 2-3 months, it will start putting out new growth - that is when you can feed it.

Peonies don't like to be dug up and transplanted, but it is great that you can enjoy them. Let us know what else comes up - take pictures and post them on here!

Jackie

Jackie with all due respect, I have transplanted and divided peonies with no problem. Apparently it helps dividing "old" peonies, especially when they don't flower much; It rejuvenates them...

Yeah, I 've moved a bunch of peonies and as long as you a, dig a much bigger hole than you think you need so as to get the whole rootball with the soil on and don't break off roots, b, replant at as close as possible to the previous depth, and c, water them in well till established in their new spot, they don't actually care all that much about being moved.

Grantgarden, HMF is HelpMeFind Roses.
See: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/plants.php

HelpMeFind Roses