Netties, actual grasses, while present, are somewhat rare in woodlands. It could be said that grasslands and woodlands are two more or less opposite plant communities. that said, such grass-like species as oak sedge do occur often in the woods. If you go to either Prairie Moon Nursery's catalog, or that of Prairie Nursery(Confusing I know), goto the sh"ade sectionou will be able to feast on far more choices than I can list for you. And that's just the grasses and sedges. There're many forbs which are native and well suited to that environment too.

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ps...sorry for the garbled-up wording. This new Houzz has some very annoying editing issues.

No that helps, thanks. I have Prairie Moon's catalog here. I don't think I have it to the point where I can start the forbs/wildflowers yet. I am going to be dealing with buckthorn seedlings for certain this year and I thought that maybe I could get some grasses and sedges going as a placeholder to keep some of the weeds at bay. I'll go take a look at the section you mentioned. Thanks, Tom

Right on. We're doing a big buckthorn thing on wooded property one of my sons owns. Very definitely the right first step. Another angle to it is to try to introduce native, beneficial shrubs as the buckthorn goes away. Placeholder is exactly right, and in that case, a rather long-term one! Good luck. You're fighting the good fight.

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I feel for you. My fight with Mountain ash Juniper is a forever yearly thing. I pick out a 1.5 acres to clear underbrush from and go for it. I have better luck with what comes up naturally of the natives and protecting them from wildlife. along with the buckthorn, you will find natives sprouting too.

Don't know if you have seen this site already or not, but I have recommended it a few times to those doing restoration work. This couple has been working on restoring their very large property in west central Wisconsin for about 15 years. They documented a lot of the work on the site with lots of pictures of the results and area wildlife. They have some oak savannas on the property. It is really amazing. http://www.prairiehaven.com/

Thanks wantonamara, I was out last weekend surveying for natives- some aggressive natives are thriving. Virginia waterleaf completely carpets the ground on several acres and Red Elderberry shrubs have colonized other areas. I took some pictures last summer before starting and I can see zigzag goldenrod and Jack in the pulpit. When we first moved here and the buckthorn wasn't bad yet we had many wildflowers like trilliums and bloodroot, mayapples and bellwort so I hope to eventually restore some of those.

Molanic- thanks for the link. I bookmarked it to read thoroughly later but I can already see it will be inspirational.

Sounds like there's still quite a lot of good stuff there! I love zigzag goldenrod!

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I am amazed how much will restore itself when one reduces the competition.

I have learned a bit since I first came out to my land. When I first came out here, I dug up some bluestem to plant some bluestem....lost city girl that I am.

My heart goes out to you we had some small tornados that brushed our valley. I only lost 7 trees but my neighbor lost over 20 and another neighbor last 200 and a roof last summer. His damage was a defined track. I still have not cleaned up mine and my trees are small compared to yours.

I have a before and after picture of the worst buckthorn area. I worked on clearing this from August through December. It looks almost barren now- nothing but stumps and dead seedlings.

Netties, I can't say for certain, but you may be pleasantly surprised at the number and variety of forbs, etc. that still somehow remain in place there. I've seen it go that way. Hoping for the best for you!

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Also there will be a retained seed bank in the soil the will react to the vacancy. Nature abhors a vacuum. It is just up to you to recognize what you want and don't want. and leave some dead brush around to protect the little guys. That is my brand of gardening. Day before yesterday, I found a seedling of an escarpment black cherry sprouting in the 1" of soil above the septic. Its roots were running sidewards for a distance. I removed it carefully and have it in a pot with the dirt it was in to see if it gets stressed. so far not a sign of stress.I will put it in an appropriate spot this fall.... maybe this spring. Forecasts are for wet and cool summer.

First survivor- several clumps of Bloodroot are blooming happily.

Wow,... yippeee!!!!!! What a gift for all that effort.

And Virginia waterleaf too I see!

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Here's another- Large flowered Bellwort is now in bloom.

I have to keep looking at the positives like this picture because some of the negatives of the project get me down. Finding non- native bush honeysuckle, reed canary grass and the resprouting stumps are keeping me busy.

Yes, I fully commiserate. This is a full-time job in and of itself. One of my sons just paid big bucks to have a qualified native restoration contractor cut/treat buckthorn and honeysuckle in his woods. Contractor did a good job, with perhaps several hundred thousand individual plants cut and treated, yet there are some missed, some perhaps not having received sufficient dose of chems......more work, more work.

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This is exciting. A healthy, diverse, native forest will help you out a lot in suppressing invasive species. A thick carpet of leaf litter on the ground can suppress most everything but tree seedlings. Thick underbrush can shade out invasive upstarts. Study wild forests in your nearby state parks and nature preserves. Try to mimic what they got going on.

Do you have a cabin there or do you camp in tents? Or do you just do day trips there?

I have a horsebox (Leyland Daf truck), converted (by me) as liveable...and since I burnt out the clutch backing down a tricky ride, it is now fixed and immovable (apart from reverse).

I know exactly what you mean about the myopic squint I do that too and I keep telling myself not to look too far ahead, just worry about the 10 square feet around me at the moment. A couple weeks ago I was looking at our seasonal pond that is in the middle of this woods and it is dry this year because of the past two years drought. It's completely overrun with canary grass...I thought about waging a battle against the grass but I think it's too big of an area for me to take on. Here's the pond:

So instead I mowed the edge that I worry may encroach into my buckthorn cleared woods and I may just concentrate on keeping the spread from happening rather than complete eradication. The edge:

The best way to permanently reclaim a seasonal pond from invasive Canary Grass is to remove the invader...once...then plant something native that will quickly establish itself in place of the invader and leave little or no room for the invader to return. Invasive species love a vacuum of any kind.

Thought I would update my efforts for my own reference if nothing else. Starting month 14 of this project. The plan in the beginning was to be finished clearing this 4 acre woods and move on to the 1-2 acres on the other side of the pond in the middle, shown above, this fall. But the weeds got ahead of me during mosquito season so that has been a pain to fight and now I have been back since August pulling seedlings. This weekend I finished prepping about an acre for frost seeding. I have been seed collecting for about a month as well as placing an order from PM for their shady woodland mix. The area was a monoculture of buckthorn under Oak trees- it was so thick that the buckthorn only had leaves at the very tops of the clumps and had been there for all of the 25 years that I have lived here. No natives have come back in this particular spot all summer. I transplanted some ferns last spring and the deer chewed them off but I think they will survive. That was one notable- the return of the deer to the area- of course they munched everything in sight but it was still fun to see the fawns playing and racing through the new open areas.

It was a wet summer for us and the spring creek ran most of the summer through the woods. I found native sedges, wild mint, monkey flower along the banks once I cleared the burdock, nettles, and motherwort- I think I have grown to hate those last three worse than the buckthorn. Hopefully some of these native seeds will take and start crowding the undesirables out. I was mad that I had been preserving these pretty glossy leaved rosettes coming up that looked to me like rudbeckia leaves only to find out it was the first year leaves of a biennial stickseed weed that I just hate.

Agree on the motherwort! Seems like all I have to do is see them, even from twenty paces, and my pant legs are covered in those @#$%^ seeds!

Good going...I know what you mean by "mosquito season", hehe.....stops the best of us. I didn't get much done up at my place all summer either!

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Nettle, thank you for continuing to document your journey. I personally don't have any woods to restore, so I have not chimed in on the discussion. I have a tiny patch of scruff in the back of my suburban yard. I pull out the invasive plants there , but my neighbors have it right over the fence. My prognosis is that the battle will be continual.

I have enjoyed hearing your experience and will enjoy to continue reading what you have accomplished. Keep up the good work and don't interpret silence for lack of interest!

My ambitions have scaled back considerably - I now clear much smaller areas at a time - no more than I can easily resow with native grasses and flowers. I allow myself a blast of herbicide to do away with the worst of the nettle and bramble and hand weed until the grass and flowers are growing well enough...and I am still propagating as many plants as I can after the initial shock of proudly clearing the first huge bramble patch (a million tiny brambles appeared almost overnight)...and I have decided to get along rather than fighting all the time. I have a little wheeze at present, using the brambles as 'nurse' plants. They have shallow and not terribly competitive root systems while also making good natural tree guards so I cut back the longest canes, thin some out at the base and plant maiden whips in amongst the blackberries. The little saplings benefit from the support (and although deer pressure is very slight, the bramble also helps with protection against the infrequent water deer incursions)...and bulbs are turning out to be the restorer's friends - over 10,000 bulbs in 3 years are beginning to make little pools of light and colour... I let the celandines have their head, as well as wood anemones.

It still feels terribly experimental and contingent...but nonetheless, I have planted the first trees I raised from seed this autumn - little understorey rowans (sorbus).

Keep in mind-if woodland restoration really is your goal-that eventually, much taller plants will take over the site. We call them trees, lol-and they will inhibit a great deal of the junk you're now battling. I think peeps tend to forget-the dominant plant types in forests are indeed trees! Same way as when we plant prairie plantings: Some tough competitors, things like vetches, clovers, etc. look like they'll never relinquish their hold on the site, but give it time. As the big guys-Indian grass, big bluestem, some goldenrods, etc. start to take over, they will at the very least begin to shade out the junk stuff. It is essential, IMO-to let nature aid and abet this process. Otherwise, it's just too difficult.

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Came across this monster buckthorn today. My extractigator is in front of it. I would estimate the base to be around 24 inches. There are green leaves at the very top- at least 20 feet but it leans.

Maybe it is the mother of all your problems. I guess it is a bit big for your extractor. LOL.

Ha, yah just a tad...

State-record common buckthorn! You must be so proud...haha. You're not really trying to extricate it and other giants with that tool, are you? Keep in mind-soil disturbance =more seed sprouting, very likely, that being seed of common buckthorn. There's a reason contractors that do this task on a big scale don't ever bother with such techniques. A tiny amount of the appropriate chemical, painted onto the cut surface (immediately) will kill it quick and clean, without your starting a bunch of new plants in the process.

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Very proud Tom;>). No I haven't used the tool much because I found the rootball coming out was enormous, but I have a lot of seedlings that sprout around the bases of the oak/ash trees that I like using it for those areas.

Nettie, to each his/her own, but I've found that very juvenile buckthorns pull out of the ground readily, just by hand. Once they've been in the ground a couple years though, forget that! Whatever works I guess.

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