The ones on the top look like they might be Aloe seeds. I've not seen polyphylla specifically, but I've grown aloe seeds. They are not particularly difficult.

The ones on the bottom not Aloe-like; maybe some kind of cabbage. Caveat emptor!

I think you're right. I have Aloe seeds from a plant in my yard and they have a similar seed case. I'm going to plant the non-AP seeds anyway; maybe it'll be something I can use (not cabbage, I can just run down to the store if I need that!). Thanks for the response!

Out of interest. What's the logic of buying these seeds on eBay when reputable nurseries can supply (for instance, one online supplier that I use has them on sale for 2.86 GBP a packet). I can see possible reasons - just intrigued.

I got this from reading stuff on the internet. Don't recall but got it listed some where. I could find it if you want it.

Aloe poly plants can't produce seeds by itself so all A.P. seeds are hybrids and shoud be listed as x aloe poly. I just got in a batch of seeds from China cheaply priced. After planted, they grew many different types. I am only hopping that they do have the female Aloe poly gene. The first seed I purchased from U.S. was about the same looking but the plants grew more like the Aloe poly that I saw other people had grew.

First pictures of China's;

They should lose that purple coloring when they warm up in spring.

And the first batch I grew last year;

chrisdickinson: I had completed a number of purchases of plants from eBay and Etsy sellers with no problems, so I didn't think there would be an issue with seeds. All of the sellers had 99% or 100% positive feedback. I had also tried to contact Alan Beverly two times to purchase seeds through his website (pretty pricey though, $150/teaspoon) but didn't receive a response. After reading your response I found the GB nursery's website and I'm planning to place an order.

Stush: Based on what I've read on Alan Beverly's and Clarke Brunt's websites, there are true (i.e. non-hybrid) seeds available, the problem is trying to find a legitimate seller. I guess I'm realizing that the problem with all seed purchases is that it's impossible to verify whether it's a hybrid until the plant sprouts and well into its growth. Even my more legitimate looking AP seeds could be a hybrid and I wouldn't know for quite awhile -- by that time it would be too long to bother asking for refund. I only resorted to seeds because I was having problems finding non-tissue-cultured plants available online. Alan Beverly talks about issues with the growth and form of TC plants, so I was trying to avoid them. I found two (non eBay or Etsy) nurseries that that had AP plants available in the U.S., but both were TCs. I bought two plants from one of the sellers, but only because I really wanted to get something going to see how they would fare in my zone.

I'm sowing all of the questionable seeds today. I'll update the thread if I have any success. I'm still waiting to prepare the (hopefully) legitimate AP seeds for sowing. I think I'm going to scarify some per the method suggested by Beverly and try a scarify and soak on the rest. I still have several shipments of seeds coming in and I'm hoping that Beverly will get back to me about purchasing seeds from him.

808cs,

From what I read, the TC plants are very slow to grow while the seed grown hybrids shows the hybrid vigor and can grow twice as fast. Links below;

Alan C Beverly-ECOSCAPE NURSERY, 'Aloe polyphylla: Care & Cul/va/on 5.0 Spring 2011'.

http://www.ecotree.net/Care&Cultivation.pdf

After soaking the Chinese supposed-AP seeds for 48 hours, they developed a gel coating. I did a search and found that several different types of seeds develop a gel coating after soaking, including seeds included with Chia Pets!

These are the other Chinese supposed-AP seeds after 48 hours of soaking. No gel coating.

I sowed both types of seeds today and will update on what comes out. Actually the gel-coated Chinese batch is mixed with another packet of seeds that came as a "bonus" in the order (labeled "SURPRISE?") They looked exactly like the supposed AP seeds which were labeled "African Succulent".

I'm going to scarify and soak my authentic-looking AP seeds from Great Britain (eBay seller) this afternoon.

Stush, my TC plants are growing at different rates. One has rounded leaves and the other has pointed leaves. I contacted the seller (Trio Nursery) and he said they were from the same batch of TC plants but were at different stages of development. The pointed leaf plant seems to be growing at a faster rate. As you stated, the TC plants seem to be growing more slowly than the seed-grown plants I've seen in other forums.

Chris, thanks for the referral to the GB nursery. They don't list the number of seeds you receive per order, but it appears that the price is comparable or slightly better than the Chia-Pet-Chinese seeds I received. The shipping from Germany seems to be a little faster than GB, but I'll update the post when I receive the seeds.

808cs

Glad to have been of help. I've found the service from that nursery to be very good.

As it happens, it was the first one that I looked at. I've looked through a few other British ones just now and most don't stock the seeds. One nursery (on the Isle of Wight) that I haven't used is selling seeds at 3.95 GBP, but again no indication of how many.

Hi 808,

I have had some similiar experiences purchasing seeds on eBay. I have purchased fake adenium seed from supposedly reputable sellers. I also had some bad luck with purchasing Dahlia seed that turned out to be Marigold. Unfortunately in most cases (except the adenium which were obviously not the right seed) it is too late to lodge a complaint by the time your plants are blooming.

The small black seeds look to me like poppy.

Tracy

Aloe poly plants can't produce seeds by itself so all A.P. seeds are hybrids and shoud be listed as x aloe poly.

Not quite. Aloe polyphylla is not self-fertile; but all it needs is another Aloe polyphylla nearby blooming at the same time to produce seeds that are pure Aloe polyphylla. Someone selling Aloe polyphylla seeds would have at least two plants that are not clones to produce pure seed.

I heard this for some Sansevieria and it turned out not true. Pollen ripens at different schedule than the seed pod can accept it. Taken pollen from the first blooming flower to use to newly opened flowers may undo the trick. Given the pollen more time to mature. Or maybe the pollen receptors are the ones to open up latter when the pollen from that flower had exhausted itself. What I heard was the pollen was totally inactate to do the job.

I received seeds from a British seller on eBay, a German seller on eBay and a Britsh nursery (thanks chrisdickinson!). All of the seeds appear to be authentic. I tried purchasing seeds from Alan Beverly, but he said that he isn't selling seed this year, although he'll have plants available in June. None of the non-AP seeds I received from eBay and Etsy have sprouted yet.

My first guess on the gel-coated seeds is chia. I sand my AP seeds to scarify them, which removes the 'wings' (and then freeze them in water for a week) before planting them. Some of the seeds in your pictures could have been sanded, but I doubt that most sellers would take the time. If you paid via paypal, you should phone them at (402) 952-8899 to report the sellers and possibly get a refund. IMHO these sellers should be permanently banned.

Btw, once you scar the seeds, you need to get them going right away bc their viability is very low after that, as short as a week or two. Try Silverhill seeds in south africa. I've always had good experiences with them.

Good luck!

--Rick in CT

In my trials with Aloe polly, what didn't sprout in the first two weeks will never germinate. I was told it takes up to 6 months. But I never seen them. The last batch I got from China had the highest germination rate I have ever had. About 55% They have doubled their size since that photo above was taken. I know some are not true or look even close but I was hopping that it did have the polly gene in them. oh well. got it again.

Stush

Maybe I'm lucky but most seeds that grew, turned out to be just what I wanted and by many different vendors. So I do have trust in my purchases.

Thanks Rick! I read your other posts and was hoping that I would get comments from you and Stush on the AP seeds and germinating. I tried Silverhill seeds but couldn't find a listing for AP in their online catalogue.

I contacted one of the other eBay sellers (zephylynsales) whose seeds looked a little more authentic, minus the wings and outer seed coat. He said that his source vouched for the seeds and that a California nurseryman had looked at the seeds and said they appeared authentic. He said that "hand harvested" seeds had the wing coats -- I'm not sure whether he's implying that his seeds didn't have the wing coats because they weren't hand harvested??? His seeds still haven't germinated, but I did not scarify those before the 24-hour soaking and planting.

I contacted the China seller (Etsy) and he asked for a photo of the "Chia" seeds. I also noticed that he took down the listing and that a couple of other people have since left negative ratings on other types of seed purchases. I did pay with PayPal. I think one of the hard things about seed purchases is that most people can't spot fake seeds. By the time the seeds germinate, many people have already left positive feedback because they did receive the seeds and had no other problems with the transactions. If/when they realize the seeds are fake it can be weeks or months later.

Right now I have seeds from Chiltern (Britain), Mark Davies (eBay store, Britain) and a German seller (eBay). I've already planted an earlier shipment from the same German seller. The instructions I've received from both the British sellers is to soak until germination. The German seller's instructions are to scarify and some for 24 hours. Since I have a decent number of seeds, I'll try your method and some of the other methods I've read about.

I've seen postings from other people who have raised AP. Did you or anyone else actually get them to flower and harvest seeds?

Stush - what method did you use to germinate?

Sorry, typo in my post -- "The German seller's instructions are to scarify and soak for 24 hours." Not "... some for 24 hours"

808s
-you can always go back to your own thread and edit if you see typo...just click on edit in upper right, correct whatever needs to be, or add text or photo & hit submit...Rina

I used to soak my seeds in warm water with rootone in it. After a day or two then pour into a take home container. The ones with back plastic bottoms and clear lids. Make nice hot houses for the seeds. Keep the mix damp not wet, seeds on top not covered. Lid on tight. In about a week about 1/4 should be showing a tiny root growing down. On 2nd. week maybe a few more but that's all I ever got. With the seeds for China having so many. They had them packed 20 to a bag. 1 st. bag, soaked the regular way. Got 10 out of 20. 2nd. bag placed right into container with doing nothing. Got 17 out of 20. Rest thrown in a larger container and got about 1/2 again. Doing nothing. Surprised me also. I got so many Aloes that is all I am ever going to grow for now. Trying some hybrid Haworthia now.

Stush--On your GW page you mention building a basement greenhouse. Would you contact me via my regular email RRedBBeard@yahoo.com--I'd like to ask a few questions?

Thanks,

--Rr

So I got both of these as small seedlings from Stan (Stush) last June. I have amazed myself that they are still alive and at least doubled in size. I have read they enjoy full sun to maintain their spiral form but don't much like heat. At this time of year and through the summer, what are their water requirements? Again, I am really trying to keep them alive!!!!

June 2014

April 2015

In my experience, the roots benefit from a loose, fast draining material because they need air circulation and cool humidity at the same time.

Forget everything you may have heard or may know about other aloe species. AP requires regular watering, especially when it's warm. I suggest using a terra cotta pot that's at least a couple inches wider than the plant. Stand the potted AP in a dish of water, and protect the pot from direct sun. Experts I've read say that 85°F inside the pot will kill your AP fast. I have several that are 14" wide, and I soak them daily. Here's a pic from 2 days ago. (Yes, most of them need to be repotted now.) More later--sorry about the sideways pics! The large ones are 2.5 years, and the smaller ones are a little over 1 year (I think! ).

--Rick in CT

I had two tissue-culture plants Aloe Polyphylla ("AP") that I ordered from a nursery in California. Both were approximately the same size when they arrived.

After a couple of months the one in the second photo was growing well. The one in the first photo had remained about the same size. About a week ago I was checking a leaf on the smaller one and the whole plant tipped over -- the roots had rotted off. I emailed the nursery and the owner said that this was due to overwatering. I had overpotted the plants to deal with the heat problem (saw that on another forum someplace) and was watering daily. I made sure that no water collected in the crown or leaves of either plant and they were kept in the exact same conditions. I also recently ordered a year-old plant from an eBay seller. Her listing stated,

Needs full sun and infrequent water. Seriously, INFREQUENT water ... No returns if it comes back waterlogged!

All of the literature I've read, including Alan Beverly and Clark Brunte, states that the AP should be well-watered and Beverly says that this is one way to avoid root damage from high temperatures. As long as the soil drains well, over-watering doesn't seem to be an issue. Obviously people like Rick who have success growing AP can't be wrong, so I would advise you to follow his advice. The temperature where I live only rarely reaches 90 degrees and my plants receive only morning and late afternoon sun, so I don't have to worry about extra high temperatures. One suggestion is to change the plants into a ceramic or terra cotta pot. I think those materials are better at diffusing heat. Here's the link to Alan Beverly's advice on raising AP, including advice on dealing with areas with higher temperatures.

http://www.ecotree.net/Care&Cultivation.pdf

My seedlings are doing well at this point. I tried a scarify and soak method and I'm getting a reasonable germination rate. The sellers from Europe that I purchased from both advised to soak the seeds in water (changing every few days) until germination. I tried that with some of my seeds. With other seeds I soaked for 72 hours and then placed in a plastic container on a wet paper towel. Other seeds I planted directly after 48 hours of soaking. All seeds were scarified using sandpaper and nicked with an Exacto knife. I mixed up the seeds from the different sellers (3 different sources), so some of my results could be due to the viability of the different batches of seeds, but so far the most success I've had is with the scarify, soak and place on paper towel batch. I'm still waiting on the soak-until-germination and only 2 of the 24 seeds planted directly after 48-hour soaking have germinated.

Rick, what was your germination rate? I don't have any unsoaked seeds left and all have been soaking for over 24 hours, but I'm going to try your freezing method with the most recent (about 72 hours). The chia seeds actually proved to be the most challenging and I currently have a 0% germination rate, ha, ha.

I think my germination rate was around 75% or 80%, some higher, some lower. I've also found that some tropical seeds respond well to a week in the fridge, as long as it doesn't go below 35°F or so. Worked great with bomarea....

Your chia seeds may have been old? They're $4/pound at the health food store.

--Rr

Okay the freezer seeds are defrosted. I'll post my results. Rick thanks again for all your help.