I have never had an island. But I don't see the need for island seating for the whole family when your dining table is one step away from the island. I think I would concentrate on storage and counter function for the island, with the seating as secondary.

In the KD drawing, you only have 3' between island and wall - that looks pretty tight.

In your drawing, that's a huge expanse of counter - and much of it can't be reached to be useful (you'll never roll out cookie dough in the middle). And I don't know what the maximum width is for a slab of granite (or your countertop of choice), but you may not be able to get what you want at almost 6 feet wide. I don't think quartz slabs are that wide.

I think if you eliminated the 15"x15" cab from the upper right, so you had just seating on the right size, the island proportions would be more appealing.

benjesbride - its funny you say that. I have been telling my husband we only need 3 seats for the very same reason. However, he insists on 4.

I am a huge believer in the importance of eating together. Once our kids were out of high chairs, we all ate together. It was our favorite time for "How was your day" conversations when they were in school, and we would hit all kinds of topics. Best of all, our kids learned the art of conversation, and realized that there's value to sitting around chatting - not running off to play as soon as the last bite hits your mouth. By the time they were 8 (they're twins), we could go to a nice restaurant for a meal. They could be a meaningful part of a conversation with their Grandma and her old lady friends - and were comfortable doing that as teenagers.

That said, I still (20 years later) have a tendency to wolf my food, a habit I learned when our boys were babies and toddlers, and I had to eat when I got the chance. As you say, Mom doesn't get much chance to sit still at meal time!

I never had an island and definitely no expert, but I think both islands need some tweaking.

I think 3'7" aisle b/w the island and the wall would feel tighter than the KD's 3'1" aisle when the seats are in use. In KD's layout, the narrower aisle is on the side of the island where there is no seating and (I guess)no kitchen work would be done, so it's just a walkway IMO. But I'm not sure if there'd be enough elbow room for the seats next to the long part of the island in KD's design.

I'd consider a 48 island instead of a 5,75' one if you want seats facing the fridge wall.

The KD's 37" aisle b/w the wall and the island is probably fine. First there's only a short distance at this width. Second, it's wider than most doorways. Most doorways are around 32" wide and no one has an issue with that width (unless you need it to be accessible). 37" is 5" wider. Based on the layout of the island, that end of the island will not be used as workspace and no one is sitting there.

However, I do question the functionality of the island. It looks like there's only about 30" on each side of the prep sink - one side should have at least 42". I would move the sink to the left or right so there is at least 42" b/w the sink and the end of the island (45" would be better). I also agree with you that the seats are too far apart. In addition, I don't know how wide the aisle is b/w the island and the table, but I suspect once you put a couple of chairs on the side there will not be enough space b/w the island and the table. You should have at least 48" if there is seating at either the table or the island (not both). If there's seating at both, you should have at least 60". (Hmmm....are those benches on either side of the table? How comfortable is that going to be? Do you have a DR somewhere else where you have more comfortable seating for more formal (or long lasting) occasions?)

Note the same aisle spacing applies to your design, only you have seats sitting ever further out than your KD does. Is there at least 60" b/w the island and the table?

Are you measuring aisles counter edge-to-counter edge/appliance handle or cabinet-to-cabinet? You need to measure using the former.

Your island cabinets cannot be what you show b/c you need to account for the 1.5" of overhang on each side for the width. In addition, you are short a couple of inches for having 2 seats on each side - you need 24" of linear space per seat.

Island 87" wide (7'3"):

...Front: 1.5" overhang + 27" cabinet + 24" MW drawer + 18" sink + 15" cabinet + 1.5" overhang. What about a trash + recycle pullout?

...Back: 1.5" overhang + 24"D cabinet + 27" cabinet + 18" cabinet + 1" panel + 15.5" overhang

...but...

...Seating: 1.5" overhang + 24"D cabinet + 1" panel + 24" seat + 24" seat + 15" overhang for person sitting around the corner = 89.5" ..... 2.5" short of what your island is (I probably could live with it, but I want to be sure you can - if your family is large - tall or wide - it might be an issue.)

.

Island 67" depth is OK:

...Seating: 1.5" overhang + 24" deep cabinet + 24" deep cabinet + 1" panel + 17.5" overhang

.

In both - I don't like the corner perimeter sink and blind corner setup. There's not enough space at the corner for working at the sink and it may be tight if you have someone working at the sink and range at the same time. In addition, blind corner hardware (the swing outs) are not very efficient or very useful for storage. If anything drops off the swing out inside the cabinet, do you have a small child to send in after it? I'm not joking! It will not be easy for an adult to get inside that cabinet to retrieve a fallen item - and - you will not be able to close the swing out hardware until the item is retrieved. I would get a 30" single-bowl sink (plenty big enough), move the sink over another 6", and put in a corner susan or corner drawers. I would then reduce the upper cabinets to the left of the window by at least 6" (9" to 12" would be better) to clear the space where the sink is. Now, you have a secondary Prep Zone b/w the cooktop and sink with a window view for that Zone. Much more pleasant for prepping! (The primary Prep Zone is in the island and it will have an interior view.)

Here's what you would need to do to accommodate cabinets + 4 seats at an island with the dimensions you show (this is not taking into consideration the aisle b/w the table and island - with no measurements, it's not possible to say if you have enough room for this island.)

If possible, I would change the window to be counter-height and make it at least 4' wide - that should put the entire sink (in the new position) in front of the window. A nice 9" bumpout (to the outside) would be nice there as well to increase the depth of the window well to give you more work space as well as reduce splashing

In your design, it looks like measurements are cabinet-to-cabinet, is that the case? I'm asking b/c if so, your aisles are 3" narrower than you show - and the aisle on the sink side is too narrow as it is.MW - if it's going to be under-counter, I strongly recommend a MW drawer.

Your double ovens are really much too far away from the work area and there is no landing space for the oven that's no more than 48" away. Can you get a range instead? Then, get a second oven that could be farther away b/c it probably won't be used as much. Do you really need three ovens? Two wall ovens + Steam Oven?

So, an under-counter oven - be aware that ovens mounted under the counter, in general, are closer to the floor than an oven in a range. So, this means leaning over even farther to use an under-counter oven than an oven in a range. If the Steam Oven is shorter than a regular wall oven, then it might work, but be sure you can live with it - we couldn't. We considered an under-counter oven until we saw one installed. The oven's handle went to the floor - we immediately nixed the idea once we saw it!

Wow Buehl, you are the "Yoda" of KD!

When I first looked at this plan, a couple ideas came to my mind, but it was way over my head. My first thought was...is that some kind of blind corner pull out contraption? I had looked into those for my kitchen. They cost big, and I'm taking BIG bucks!

Mira - In your plan, I think this blind corner pullout is a bad idea. I have a couple other thoughts with the island that I will try and get back to you on, but for now, this blind corner sticks out in my mind as a big mistake. Picture needing a something in there and having to muscle that contraption out. But then wait, someone's at the sink, "Excuse me, can you move over please?" After a few hundred times, I envision something not as polite, as in, "Move it!"

I love your eating all together idea, whether it is at the island for less formal meals, or at the table for dinners. However, the island and table are very close together for just four people most of the time. You mentioned moving the table over. Where would the sofa and chairs be moved? Am I correct that this is an open floor plan including the living room, dining, and kitchen with main entry on the LR side? If it is, it can totally work, but i just wanted to make sure I had that correct.

Thank you everyone for your comments! I greatly appreciate your
input!

annkh_nd
– I really try to sit down with my kids, but it gets kind of crazy with two
little ones. These days I am just trying to not stress to much about thingJ

sena01
– I see your point…

buehl,
rebunky–

We have an open floor plan. The image from the KD is basically our first floor. There are stairs to the finished basement and the second floor and we also have a tiny power room not shown. Currently we have a wall in the
kitchen and that is where the fridge is.

This is our leaving/dining room. The pictures are from a few years ago but nothing much have changes except maybe the blinds and the TV position. The TV and the leaving room set is going down in the basement. We are getting new furniture for the leaving room, but we are NOT getting new dining table at this point so the benches that the KD shows are irrelevant.

These are panorama pictures (hence the curves) of the kitchen that I took just now. Please excuse the mess. I am moving things around and marking with painters tape to get a feel for how an island would workJ

The reason we want 4 seats in the island is that we think we
will use them for everyday meals to make cleaning up easier. With two kids, we
clean up the dining table and the kitchen multiple times a day. I have been
looking at A LOT of pictures in houzz for island configurations but I still
have trouble figuring out what would work for us. I liked the layout sena01 gave me in the previous thread
but I am worried that the sink will be on the way of one of the seats and that is
why I made the island wider.

As far as the corner cabinet in the kitchen – we cannot make
window changes as this is not in scope right now (due to budget). That is why I
thought that the sink cannot really move as we want it centered on the window.
Why is the corner pull out a bad idea? We have the blind corner cabinet and I
hate reaching for things in it. This is the only reason I think a pull out
would be great there (Ikea's pull out
) . I will have plenty of space for everyday pots/pans under the cooktop for
easy access so the blind cabinet could have stuff that I don’t use daily…

Our KD’s idea of a T-Shaped island could work if the seats across were closer to each other. Maybe even shorten it a bit and have two seats facing the refrigerator and two seats facing each other… I have to think about it.

I don’t think I would put the prep sink in the middle of the
island. I am also thinking that maybe our space won’t work well for a prep sink??
I really like the idea of it though…

I see your point about not enough space between the island
and the dining table. We are still debating whether we should move the dining
table close to the front door and have the leaving area immediately next to the
kitchen.

Our kitchen is not small but I feel the sliding glass door
and makes the space very challenging to work with. We cannot make any
modifications to it at this point…

buehl - Thanks for the calculation of the island. I had included the
counter and doors in the perimeter part but not in the island.

We are not big and my kids are still very small so 2-3
inches wouldn't matter that much but still it’s good to know.

We are getting an induction cooktop. I hate ranges and the
way the food goes between the range and the cabinets. This is one of my top priority.
We were thinking of an oven under the counter but if we get a steam oven
(24inches) for the island, we could get a combination oven with MW and oven and
put it in the pantry/mudroom area. The combination oven won’t be used that
much.

I am re-reviewing the previous thread and some of the
layouts lisa_a suggested.

buehl
– Would you mind sharing what software are you using to draw?

I like Deedles corner solution a lot.

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I went through this post yesterday - a lot of cool ideas. I don't think IKEA makes anything similar :) Thanks for your suggestion.

Thanks for posting pictures. What a beautiful home you have. It's going to be great with the new open floorplan and island. Yes, try that new idea you had about shortening the "T" seating part and see how that feels. I like the other island style with seating more an L shape, but am interested to see your idea. I must have drawn my island 25 different configurations when I was planning. I also did the blue tape!

Anyways, sorry that I made it seem that the blind corner pull out was a bad thing. It's not that at all. I totally understand where the blind corner pullout is very nice to have. So much better then the dark cave that you need a flashlight helmet and knee pads to get anything out of, right? Been there, done that, hated it! :-(

I guess I just thought with how close the sink is to the corner, it was a going to make it difficult to use. I was going with that cabinet being labeled as "pots/pans and small appliances" so that's what I pictured inside it. Everyday things used for cooking, not just the once in a while stuff.

I pictured storing more shallow cookware like different size frying pans, casseroles, and other utensils under the 30" cooktop. I do have a ridiculous amount of pots and pans, so for me a couple deep 30" drawers wouldn't be enough. But maybe it is plenty space for your set. It really is about what works for you, not me, or anyone else.

If only that window could move down or if you could change the sink location somehow so it would not be so close to that corner...Shootz! I totally understand if it is not in the budget as moving a window or plumbing will add some cost. Can you find out what it would cost and then decide if you can cut corners in the budget someplace else?

I have seen sinks not centered to a window when it made the layout better. It really looked fine. Maybe someone has or remembers a kitchen with the main sink off center to a window and can post you a picture?

If there was any way you could swing doing a Super Susan in the corner, I think they are awesome! I love mine. But the BC pullout is great too. Either way with the sink further down is what I'd push for.

Oh, I am sure it will all work out. You have some great minds here to help you. Keep working on it and something will finally click.

rebunky _ thanks!

I am working on some ideas that I have and I will post pictures.

If we get a smaller sink we will be able to fit a susan in the corner. Just need to convince my husband on the smaller sink. He is the cleaning person and he loves the one huge bowl sink:)

Now for a different perspective. Don't skimp on the size of your sink. If you're going to use that corner for seldom-used items, then I think a large sink trumps a susan. Especially if you're considering not having a prep sink. I have a blind corner with seldom-used items back farther in it. Right behind the door I do have a few items used more often. Sure, it's not great to dig back for things that few times a year I need to do so but that's a temporary inconvenience. A small sink would be an inconvenience each and every day. It's probably the most used "appliance" in your kitchen so get what you need/want there.

Access to our blind corner is also helped by having an opening between the sink base cabinet and the blind corner which allows us to remove stuff from the back of the blind corner as we can see and reach better from that cabinet.

No, it's not ideal. But, for example, I don't make cakes often and, when I do, it's usually a sheet cake. So having my layer cake pans, bundt cake pan, and a few similar items I only use once in a few blue moons back there is no big deal. If you have to store things there that you use more often, then I agree this set-up would be a huge hassle.

The blue tape to play with your island size/shape is a great idea. I think even better is putting something there. We used an extra buffet and a big box. Something that takes up space. This will really give you a better feel for how much space that island is taking up and what aisle width you need to feel comfortable. I'm glad I did that for my peninsula as we determined that we really needed the full 54" between wall cabinets and peninsula to not feel cramped.

I think your last plan shows a great location for your prep sink. I'd advise doing anything to get one. I've never heard of anyone regretting having a prep sink. It really makes it so much easier to have a separate space for clean-up.

If you do a search for "sinks not centered under kitchen window", you'll find lots of photos. It usually looks just fine. I wouldn't hesitate to have an off-centered sink if it improved kitchen function. Here's just a couple of photos:

Kitchen Remodel · More Info

West Island Kitchen · More Info

I really like your home and think with the great help you've gotten here, you're going to have a wonderful kitchen!

Mira, have you looked at Ikea's blind corner cabs in person? DH and I were all set to install one next to our sink until we looked at both Hafele and Rev-a-Shelf units and realized that they weren't as space efficient as we expected. I measured the shelf space as well as height clearances, and then played with what I would store there. In the end, we ditched the BCC idea, voided the corner and went with a bank of drawers next to the corner. It will provide not only more storage but the right kind of storage for me. It's also cheaper.

Definitely investigate Ikea's BCC units and determine how useful the storage will be for you before committing to it.

I'm still not a fan of the wall oven placement. The closest counter area in your island plan is 63" away. That's too far, IMO. Your KD's island plan puts a landing zone 6" closer but still beyond NKBA's recommended max of 48".

In miraspasov's latest plan, isn't there a counter right next to the wall ovens? Or am I looking at the wrong plan or interpreting it wrong? Easily done by me.

funky, you made me look again to be sure (that's a good thing!). There's wall to the right (looking at the plan) and tall storage cabs to the left. So, nope, I don't see any counter next to the ovens.

Mira, would you be willing to trade an extra deep island (difficult to clean, as has been pointed out above) for a shallower one that allows room for cabs and counters next to the ovens like this?

The pantry/wall oven set-up will block some of the light coming in your slider but since you're losing a kitchen wall and gaining a clear view of the sink window, it may not be a big deal.

On the plus side, it will block any mudroom mess from view.

Here's my shallow storage in my walk-in pantry:

I moved the prep sink to be across from the cook top with a drawer base between it and the steam oven for several reasons. One, it moves the prep sink farther from the seating area. Two, the aisle between island and cook top is slightly wider than the aisle between island and fridge (I used my CD fridge as a guide for aisles. This is to counter to door, not counter to handles). Three, I personally would rather not work over a steam oven when in use. I think it would be hot. Four, it preserves the landing zone across from the fridge. (I'm assuming you're getting a French door fridge so the handiest landing zone is across from it, not next to it.)

The other thing I did was void the corner in favor of a wide drawer base. Bulky items and small appliances can be stored in the walk-in pantry, freeing up drawer space for prep utensils, mixing bowls, measuring cups, casserole dishes, pot holders, etc, next to the cook top.

Lisa_a is one of our kindly helpful and talented pros here. I think you should gobble up every word of advice she and buehl and a few assorted others here give you.

@Lisa - That said, I'm still confused. I'm looking at this plan in the OP's last post. I've circled the counters.

Isn't this her latest reiteration. I should probably back out of this discussion. I really have no good ideas to share that improve upon any suggestions already given so I'm probably just confusing the issue.

I really like plan G. I think the only thing I would consider changing is moving the prep sink in a bit from the edge of the island. I think I would like at least 12" on that side as that would be just wide enough to put a few items that aren't too large and would provide a bit of a buffer so that you don't splash water on the floor. But I tend to be messy. This might not be a problem for someone more careful. This would still give 42" of prep space (if my math is right). And, actually 15" more than that for 57" if someone wasn't sitting in that seat.

lisa_a - WOW, I would hug you if I can. I love the ideas that you have. This walk in pantry is AWESOME.

I am still at work, but I will read and respond tonight/tomorrow for your post and also funkycamper's posts/questions.

I am going to move things around in my house to see how it would feel. We are meeting the KD this weekend so hopefully we can finalize the layout so we can move onto things that are more fun.

Oops, somehow I missed that version, funky! Yes, having that counter solves my concern, provided it doesn't become a drop zone since it's next to the mudroom. That would be what would happen at my house. = )

I also would like to have the sink in from the edge a bit but I didn't want to split a 30" drawer bank into two 15" drawer banks. Pity that Ikea doesn't offer 6" pull-out cabs because one of those at the end, then sink cab, then 24" drawer base would be a good set-up.

Thank you for your kind praise. I can't carry a tune (oh, how I wish I could) but I have a knack for space planning. = )

I'd love a hug. Hugs are good. = )

I'm glad you like Plan G. Fingers crossed for your upcoming meeting. It's beyond wonderful to get things settled.

Mira, I goofed and forgot to add a note about the walk-in pantry on Plan G.

Talk to your GC about building the pantry walls as "skinny" 2 x 4 walls. The 2 x 4s are turned 90 deg to normal placement, which is doable when you're not building a supporting wall (2 x 4s turned that way have minimal structural strength). You gain about 2" per wall so instead of having a 27" interior space (36" - 9" for 2 standard 4 1/2" thick walls) between the pantry walls, you'd have 31" (36" - 5" for 2 skinny 2 1/2" thick walls).

I have 28 1/4" between wall and pantry shelves in my walk-in pantry under my stairs. Here's another shot of my pantry.

It's 42" wide wall to wall. It's not huge but it holds so much.

lisa_a - Thanks so much for all the ideas especially the walk in pantry:) I love it and neither my husband nor the KD can talk me out of it.

Ikea has 15" base cabinets and we can use them to achieve about 20" counter next to the wall oven. I put 5 inches interior walls in my drawings as I haven't talked to our GC to see how thick/thin he could make them.

This is the "final" layout. Our KD will do 3D this week to see how we like it. Anyone have any other suggestions?? I really feel that this layout is my perfect kitchen, but I am sure I am missing something. IKEA has their kitchen sale until mid April and we have to order the cabinets by that time.(click to enlarge)

I am hoping we can somehow figure out how to make the pantry door similar to this:

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Now the next dilemma my husband and I have is where to put the prep sink and the trash. The prep sink could be across from the refrigerator (too close to the seat?) or at the other end of the island across the cooktop (too close to the main sink). As for the trash - it makes sense to have it under the main sink as that will be used for cleaning, but also it makes a lot of sense to put it under the prep sink...
I will dig some threads about that as I am sure other people have been in my shoes.

I am keeping the corner pull out for now. I have to make a trip to IKEA to study it closer.

Where do you guys keep your cutting boards? I need to put them somewhere close for easy access and with all these drawers I am not sure where that will be...

I also haven't found space for the liquor/wine...

funkycamper - to answer your question about the counter next to the wall oven in my original post - yes, first we had some counter to the right of the oven. Later we took it out as it was only about 18" and I thought it wouldn't be that useful. I guess in my later post I posted the "wrong" picture. Sorry for the confusion.

In the comment box, if you click on "Houzz Photo", then "Houzz URL" you can input the URL of a photo on Houzz and have it post.

Misc Pictures · More Info

I would think your KD can order them from your from your cabinet supplier. Those would look great.

I'm still a bit concerned about your aisle clearances. They would feel a bit tight to me. I realize you want your island to align with the edge of your cabinets but I might scootch it over an inch. I don't think the misalignment would be noticeable, especially with stools there, but I think that inch in the work area would be appreciated.

I might be wrong but I think I'd switch the prep sink and under-counter microwave. If your aisle was wider, it wouldn't be an issue but there really isn't good room for someone to be prepping while someone is cooking. And if you had a third person in the kitchen doing clean-up, I think it would feel way too chummy for everybody. I think I'd rather have to be a bit careful not to spray someone sitting at the island with the sink there then have to worry about stepping back and accidentally knocking into the cook. Just things to consider. I understand you might come to a different conclusion.

I love the pantry and am so glad you're doing it. Even with the slightly tight aisles, I think this is going to be a lovely, functional kitchen.

Most people put trash at both sinks. If that doesn't work for you, I think a very acceptable solution is to have a bowl for your trash that you walk over to the trash to empty when full or when done with whatever you're working on. That's what my sister does in her house and it's not a problem. Just one more bowl to rinse out when done. I would put my bigger or only trash at the prep sink as that area will mostly likely generate the most trash.

Wow love this new plan! Walk in pantry is wonderful. Hides the mud room from living room view as a little nook. I love the double door inspistion pic. It would be so cool if you could rig the light to come on when you open the doors! I think the island a better size in the room, yet still plenty big.

Only question I had was on your last final LO? What is that little 15" box on the end of the island sticking out towards fridge?

funkycamper- thanks for the tips ! I updated the photos. There are tons of examples on the cabinet doors for a walk - in pantry doors on Houzz. We are going with IKEA cabinets, so we don't have a cabinet maker:) I will talk to our GC and see if he has some suggestions on how we can achieve this with the ikea tall cabinet doors. I am also thinking of adding a light in the pantry with a sensor for when the pantry door is open. I haven't checked how much it costs, but that would be a useful feature. I am researching now if we should put a heating/cooling vent in the pantry. I think we can close it off in the winter to have the pantry cooler and open it in the summer when the AC is on to cool it down. I have never had a pantry before.

Both my husband and I are pretty small and we feel 40" ,46" and 48" would be plenty of space for the aisles. We have an ikea free stand base cabinet that we have been moving around our kitchen to test out the aisles. However, I can see that placing the sink across from the cooktop may be an issue when multiple people are in the kitchen.

I am leaning towards trash for both sinks although I still feel its kind of odd in a kitchen of this size.

rebunky - the 15 inch box in front of the fridge is just the measurement of the overhang on the island. There is no cabinet there. I apologize, the arrows on the line are very small. I cant figure out how to change it in my drawing program.

You don't need full size trash at each sink...unless you generate tons of trash. If you recycle and/or compost, don't forget to plan for that.

You have put a lot of thought into this. I'm sure you'll be fine with your aisles. Great job!

What program did you use to design this? Looks great!

sarahannseitz - after some googling I found qcad it worked fine for us: http://www.qcad.org/en/

I am 4'10" and in our old kitchen had 39" aisles. WAY too small, just saying. I really think it would be worth it to give yourself a couple extra inches on that one side. I think the other 2 aisles are just fine.

I wanted to post photos of my kitchen. I apologize for being almost three years late to it. Thank you everyone for helping me!

NIce! Did you hide a walk-in pantry behind the doors next to the oven as you'd planned?

What is your backsplash? If it's not the same as the drawer fronts, it's a very close match. I would never have thought of doing that but it suits your kitchen well.

Congrats! I hope you enjoy your kitchen for many, many years!

Hi Lisa,

Yes, we did build the walk in pantry. I am so glad we did it, so thank you!!! The "hacked" door turned out pretty good too!

The backslash tiles are more blue-ish gray than the cabinet. It is hard to see it in the photos, but it matches the island counter more than the lower cabinets.

Thanks!

So cool! May I copy your photo to share on lay-out threads? If so, do you want me to credit your kitchen or leave it anonymous?

Thanks for sharing your new kitchen with us!

Beautiful and I love your pantry. Great island too.

love it! Really nice job.

Lisa, feel free to copy away.

Thank you everyone!

Thank you!