BTW: the first contractor I heard back from said that the way he would install concrete is to dig up 8" of soil, install a 4" base + #3 rebar, and then pour the concrete in. He also mentioned for pavers it would be pretty much the same base hold the rebar and 1" of sand instead. The other contractors didn't seem to indicate they would be excavating this deep for concrete (one mentioned he would just excavate 4" or so and didn't mention rebar). Is the first method kind of overkill for our application if we were to go the concrete route? BTW: the contractor pushing rebar is the one quoting us $10k~

Have seen a lot of new concrete poured for sidewalks, driveways, landings, etc... that cracks almost immediately after it is installed. I do not recommend having concrete poured basically "on top of the soil".

If you're going to go the regular concrete route I would go with the contractor advocating the base and re-bar. Sounds like he is a professional who will do a good job. If your soil has any freeze-thaw cycle simply pouring a pad of concrete without taking any crack-preventative measures will not work in the long run.

Overall I think pavers are the best, longest-lasting solution, but for your application concrete seems like it will be simpler and (possibly) cheaper to go with regular vs. stamped. Have no idea if the price is a good one or not but the main question is do you trust him?

That price sounds high when you don't have fussy requirements. Part of the problem here is that you have no design to bid on. So various contractors are showing up, designing something in their head, pricing it and leaving you with a confusing array a prices and details. This is not how to do it. First, come up with a design. Even if it's just a rectangle, you need to show contractors its size and location on a piece of paper. For such a small project, you could probably pull it together yourself with input from the forum. Can you draw some straight lines on grid paper? (Print it from online.) Why don't you provide an overall picture of the space and get some input.

Thanks all! As far as designs, it's pretty simple. I really just want a strip of dirt along at least one of the walls (one of the contractors said the HOA will require this dirt strip against all out walls though so not sure about that). And the most durable but affordable hardscaping (whether concrete or low-end pavers). Here's a really rough mock-up of what I'm talking about. The "patios" are deck areas covered by our neighbor's balcony. So the grey area is the open space and the brown strip is where I was thinking to leave as dirt 2ft from the wall.

I kind of determined this is how I'd want it to be after the first contractor came out. He sent some 3d images as well and that just confirmed that this is fine with us. Just keep it pretty plain and simple for the most part. Anyway, after coming up with this very basic design, this is what I've told the other contractors I want to do so they do know.

As far as pouring concrete, the guy today didn't go into too much detail (about rebar and stuff) but did talk about laying down a 4" base before pouring concrete. It sounded like he knew what he was talking about either way though.

I've been doing most of my research thus far on Yelp and Google BTW.

Select Landscapes is correct. Four inches of excavation is not enough for concrete, which also should not have direct contact with the soil. The more expensive contractor is doing the job as it should be done. You need either the re-bar or wire mesh in the pour. Yardvaark is also correct with the comment that even a basic design or a designation of size will allow you to avoid confusion with proposals that are offering different services for different applications. I might make a third suggestion. As a designer it's always about the space for me. There are occasions when I use a color application in the concrete but no stamping. This might better meet your budget needs and still provide some flourish. Whatever your decision remember that the least expensive contractor is rarely the best solution. Over the years I have advised many potential clients I know how to be cheap and I know how to be great, but that I cannot do both on the same project. Good luck!

Thanks! I'll have to see the quotes from the other contractors and ask them to specify how much soil they intend to excavate. That'll give me a good idea of the ones I should weed out, at least.

I'm still debating between pavers and concrete. I certainly want the base done correctly so as to prevent any shifting or cracking (of pavers and concrete, respectively) but at this point, after looking at some options, and considering the prices go up with more intricate designs, I also don't want to spend a ton of money on making a super nice-looking yard when all we want is something functional and usable. A blank slate if you will. The other part of it is my wife and I both don't want to invest a bunch of time researching what kinds of pavers we really want and going back and forth and just being too picky about it. We just want something simple and reliable but that is not too expensive. $10k sounds a bit high for what we're wanting.

The contractor who quoted us $10k also was planning to excavate 8" of soil and would prepare the same 4" base but put an inch of sand over it before installing the pavers (4"). Does this also sound correct?

For contractors wanting to excavate less, what is the main reason for doing that? Just to have less work to do in general? Or is there ever a legit reason to want to excavate less (especially for pavers)? Only thing I can think of is if the contractor is planning to install the pavers higher up from where the current ground is. But in our case, our decks are about a good 5-6" raised above where the dirt currently is. I wouldn't want the pavers or concrete to be flush or almost flush with the deck.

I believe the difference in the quote for pavers vs concrete is about $400-500, with the pavers being more. Still, that seems like a minimal difference. I too was shocked at the small difference in price but another contractor did say that stamped concrete and pavers come out to be the same after all the pre/post work that needs to be done for the stamped/stained concrete. I suppose that makes sense but then again, I have no idea!

jplee3: The 8" of excavation could be correct, but our standard protocols at work are for 10" of excavation (Chicagoland). Then we compact the subsoil with a vibratory compactor, then install a geotextile product on the bare soil, then add CA-6 gravel and compact in 2" lifts. Finally, we add 1" of sand and establish a 1% pitch (1" every 8') on almost all paver projects. Then install the pavers, then a quality brick edge restraint such as Snap-Edge. Then the jointing sand, which varies depending on your brick selection. And you hit the nail on the head with the excavation depth. Excavating less saves time (labor/money). It is a sure way to failure for a brick patio. Depending on your location you might want to consult with the manufacturer as to recommendations for their product. The manufacturer wants their products installed correctly and can possibly recommend a reputable contractor or two. Hope this helps!

Thanks K&D! Honestly, we have no clue as to brands haha. The first contractor is a certified Belgard installer, so I think he was pushing those as he gave us a catalog with a bunch of pictures to flip through.

For me, I'm less interested in the brand than I am just getting something that costs the least but is functional (as mentioned previously). I'm really not inclined to researching all the various options out there, and it seems overwhelming already.... not sure if this part is unavoidable (unless I just go with concrete?)

The two big names in modular paving brick are Unilock and Belgard. If you don't have a preference simply contact one or the other and ask for a referral. They should steer you to a responsible and reliable contractor. It will probably pay dividends to make the effort. Remember, the manufacturer wants their brick looking good with happy homeowners. Most contractors want the same, but a manufacturer's referral will help ensure it. Again, good luck.

So I just got an email from contractor #1 offering an upgrade to tier 3 pavers at no additional cost at all (currently the design includes tier 1 pavers). Not sure if this is worth the value since the current pricing is out of our budget anyway.

EDIT: Turns out this contractor is the second listed under Belgard's locator on their site too

Contractor #3 came out today to discuss pavers and concrete. His estimates were quite lower than the first guy and he seemed to be knowledgable with lots of great work to show for it (family-run business in the local area for 20-30 years or so). He quoted base $5500~ for concrete and said he would excavate 4", compact to 90%, and also was quite insistent on utilizing rebar. For pavers he quoted a base of $7500 for pretty basic pavers that would blend with the existing walls and colors. He was also very insistent on going through the house compared to the other contractors. He even said most contractors will avoid going through the house and he understands the risk. He mentioned he is fully liable for anything that happens or any damage, but that his track record is clean with every install that he has done where it's involved going through the inside.

BTW: If a contractor who specializes in patios and paver installations isn't a certified Belgard or Unilock vendor, but is licensed, is it just a bad idea to go with them? It seems as though if you're interested in those specific brands of pavers, it might be a good idea, but I never considered paver brands as being of really high importance. Can someone elaborate more on this?

Most paver installers are not certified mfg. vendors. It would be a rarity around here. There are many small time players.

Thanks! Nothing wrong with that right? I mean, as long as it's a good referral and others who have used them are happy with the work? I guess at that point it's all subjective. Seems "certification" for anything seems like a form of "guarantee" of the work being done more than anything.

As far as concrete, two of the three contractors have mentioned excavating only 4", packing in the dirt, and pouring concrete right over with rebar. I know cost might be one factor, but could another factor be that "road base" is the proper way to install concrete especially on driveways or where there is expected to be heavy traffic or vehicles? In the case of our patio, I would expect light foot traffic and perhaps some furniture (but nothing really heavy) out there. Do you think maybe this is why the other contractors are not wanting to excavate more and lay the base? And is the reasoning for this legit? Or is it still a testament of poor workmanship and cutting corners? It's hard to believe that either of these two guys, who seem highly rated in general, would want to fleece their customers. Something else I mentioned to the first guy that I didn't mention to the others was that there were some nasty root systems growing up from the large trees outside of the walls. I wonder if that was a factor in him wanting to excavate more to clear out any roots, etc.

If you follow a concrete truck around for a day, you'll see the vast majority of concrete placed has no base under it. In many cases, it's placed over excavated soil without additional compaction. Rebar and mesh don't prevent cracking. Their main function is to prevent surface misalignment of the work, should a crack develop. (If one side of the crack upheaves or the other settles, it makes for an unsafe walking surface.) Mesh is less expensive and is more common for work intended for light duty. That said, one does what one can to minimize the potential for cracking. One could spare no expense with excavation, compaction, rebar and additions to the concrete mix itself. But usually cost is a factor. Part of how deeply one excavates has to do with the soil conditions themselves. It's not a good idea to place concrete on soil with high organic content and the potential for decomposition and the resulting settling. The idea is to get down to soil that doesn't compact. Tree roots are another problem. Since they are growing, even if they are removed, they will return so there's a lot of "it depends" on the immediate environment. With tree roots present, it would probably be worth it to upgrade to rebar over mesh and make a slightly deeper excavation (beyond 4") to be refilled with a cushioning layer of sand separated from the subsoil with geotextile in order to buy time from root growth. (Roots can push into the sand without upheaving the slab.) You haven't yet said that anyone has made test excavations in order find out exactly what the soil conditions are. I would do a few of these to determine what you are combating. Then account for this in the design specs. And then be reasonable if cost is a consideration. Really, you need to DESIGN this project (which includes determining the specs.) If you don't feel competent to do it, you should hire a professional rather than have each subcontractor design it. If you find a sub whom you have complete confidence in (because of his reputation, references, portfolio and manner) and wish for him to design it because of your respect for his work, then there is no need to have others "design" and bid on it also.