Lumber Liquidators Exposé on 60 Minutes
The Kitchen Place
9 years ago
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steph2000
9 years agotracie_erin
9 years agoRelated Discussions
a serious challenge to our assumptions about pruning methods
Comments (37)saccharum: No offense--I am a natural exaggerater, but do my best to restrain myself. As for the copper fungicide's toxicity. I have noted in these forums before my suspicion that it has some toxicity to sapwood if it soaks down inside a tree and gets at it from the inside. I have not reported all the things I have tried with this, but I did try applying this stuff to real extremes, and at what I would call almost ridiculous over applications I suspect some marginal toxicity. One pine tree that I poured this stuff on in amounts I cannot accurately document had a portion of the side of the trunk under the application zone die. But this was a tree that a storm broke half of off, the broken part being about 14 inches in diameter, and where it broke there was a sunken area where I could actually pool this stuff. But in my experience, the part of the trunk under this really huge broken area may have died anyway. In another instance where I applied it very, very liberally I noticed some bleeding beneath the cut, which was a cut to remove half of a forked tree and the cut was about 5 inches across. I did this experimental overapplication on this tree, a Norway spruce, because it was a weak tree growing in the shade of other spruces and a white pine. A stronger tree growing in full sun may not have shown the same symptom. The tree, however, is still alive and has not shown any loss of vigor. It is in substantial shade but is "plugging along" nicely considering that. Both of these instances were cases where the cut or the break was across the grain and the cut or break faced upwards and absorbed all the rain that fell also. I noticed no other instance of anything I would suspect was a toxic effect, and for a while--until I learned better, I applied more than needed. So I think it is in all probability safe. As for research--I have been talking to people for at least 20 years in several universities trying to get someone interested, but no luck so far. This liquid copper fungicide is the third thing I tried--it seemed obvious very soon that it was working, so I have tried nothing else since. But of course there are other things one could try. Part of my reason for trying this liquid copper fungicide is that it was my understanding that the copper itself was the active agent, and I thought that the copper would have some stability in the outdoor environment and would not break down so fast as other fungicidal compounds. Also, it is my understanding that the "liquid" copper fungicide is, in fact, a true liquid solution, and as such it would soak into the wood in a way that a wettable powder would not. A great many trees get fungal infections through injuries to the trunk or from pruning cuts made to remove very large limbs. It pains me to see this and I am convinced (I understand research needs to be done, if only to convince others) that it can be easily prevented. Many of the trees are trees loved by their owners, and in many cases these trees have a monetary value that would exceed several thousands of dollars. What a waste! Oh, I must note--even though I admit to a frequent tendency to exaggerate, I am not exaggerating about the ability of this liquid copper fungicide to stop fungal infections. Just to be clear--over the last 20 years, I have probably used this stuff on 200 trees. About 60 or 70 of these were spruce and pine trees (Norway spruce, white pine, red pine) that were forked. I cut half the fork off, leaving big ugly cuts, mostly sloping, but not always. Some of these cuts were at least 6" across. Many took 10 to 15 years to occlude, and some, after 20 years have not yet occluded. I have seen no evidence that I could recognize of any fungal infection whatsoever. And the wood at the surface of these cuts is as fresh and hard as a board in a lumber yard. I am not exaggerating this one tiny, tiny bit. I have also used this stuff on logging bumps and scrapes, some really huge, on various species of hardwood trees and hemlock, and as I reported above--no trace of fungal infection that I could detect. I have tried to renew this stuff every year--in some cases I missed a year or two, especially on the logging wounds which require a lot of walking to get to every year. One thing I would like research to show is how often it is necessary to reapply this stuff. I have wanted to be on the safe side, hence my reapplication every year, as far as I have had time and energy. Getting to all the treated trees over the 300 acres I have is a four day job, and an exhausting one at that. --Spruce...See MoreConifers and our US weather variability
Comments (34)The person who criticized my posts for being too complicated, better just stop now. I guess it helps to remember the zones are 'USDA', which is the US department of agriculture and really has nothing to do with ornamental plants. Nein. Ornamental plants ARE part of the USDA's mission. That's why the National Arboretum is under their aegis. Remember wholesale nurseries definitely are a form of agriculture. The USDA zone system gives the barest measure of whether a plant can survive in a given area. Obviously, something hardy only in zone 10 cannot survive in zone 6. Beyond that, there are many other factors. The latest revised USDA zone map seems very accurate to me. I know of gardens along the Delaware river in NJ that really do seem like zn 7b. But it took a ridiculously long time to come out...considering the overall crunching of data probably took a few hours on a high perf. workstation or server. (in case you don't know, it's based on a climate model developed at U Oregon called "Prism") This was not some advanced climate simulation going on like trying to predict hurricanes. And given that computer technology has advanced so much including the algorithm development one would have to say the current USDA map reflects a certain lack of vision, though, again, at least they finally got it correct. By this I mean something like the Sunset system could have been developed, although there were problems with that approach if you try to extend it over the country. Rather than discrete numbers that could get ridiculously long for certain plants (i.e., this grows in 21, 33,34,35,36,37,38,40,52,61,62,63,64,75,78 etc) it could have used a series of vectors that graph a space representing the plant's preferences. Zones 1 to 10 would still be the first dimension of this system so you don't "break compatibility" with what we already have. The two main additional factors I would propose would be aridity, and summer temperature. There are several reasons for this; namely, there are already 2 factors certain nurseries use when selling plants. The AHS "heat zone" map exists, and is used by a few nurseries to show warning on certain species, and aridity scales have been adopted by Desert Northwest and High Country Gardens. Mind you these scales would not necessarily be linear and could code a sub-dimension, or even be matrixed to code an additional factor. For example it might make more sense for moisture to go: part of year arid - sporadic/none of year - all year - part of year but high atmospheric moisture. Because there are non-linearities in the way plants behave with respect to that, and with summer temperature. Some cool summer seasonal plants are actually known to grow in all year rainfall climates like England, but only with cool summers. The point is the arrange things in the way that leads to the most chances of solid groupings. Such mathematical shenanigans might make it hard for people to understand how to derive their own zone, but the point is it doesn't matter. They will get their zone off a map. Also different from the Sunset zones, there no need for a comprehensive, singular map because everyone will use some kind of smart device in the future that can easily click one location between 3 or more different maps. So a zone like mine would go from 7a (I think the a/b is of more limited usefulness than most people realize, though I have and will continue to reference the subzones) to something like 7J6. 7 being 0 to 10f min annual temp, J being a climate with rain all year but some expectation of brief droughts, and 6 being heat zone 6. Let's call it the Comprehensive Plant Zone. A _PLANT_ ranges, versus a gardening location, would go from "USDA zone 7-10" for a maritime climate plant like Eucryphia, to "CPZ (comprehensive plant zoning) zone "7H2-10M4" meaning that range of minimum winter temps, and a generally moist climate though accepting somewhat dry summers, as long as 3) the summers are cool. I would instantly recognize that I can't grow the plant because I'm off on one of the codes. Of course, this will never happen and there will be howls of "it's too complicated" but you can be sure in the early 1960s some hayseeds saw the first Harvard zone map and said "oh them fancy professors and their durn maps, I know what grows here and uh don't need some map." Also let's face that other than the big midwestern cities the net migration in the country is towards the SE, S & W where the USDA zone system is least useful. USDA system is most useful for telling people in Iowa there are many, many plants that they are far too cold to grow (sorry Iowans, someone had to be an example) than answering the question for someone in Phoenix, Arizona of whether a certain species of Protea could grow there. (and I reckon a couple of the most heat tolerant ones could) That a sunset zone map was made for the whole country is something I applaud, my idea just tries to make their system easier to use when dealing with a lot of customers and plants. Instead of saying "that only grows in 31, not 42" it's more helpful to say "your moisture factor of J is too much for an A-E plant, it will rot"....See Morelumber liquidators anyone?
Comments (26)We installed 720 sf of the Morning Star Click bamboo flooring sold by Lumber Liquidators in June of 2013. The material scratches easy, however, the scratches are the least of our problems. The cupping started with the shorter pieces in the hallways. By December 2013, the entire installation was cupping and gaps appeared in random areas. After contacting Lumber Liquidators about the problem, We were told that since we did not hire someone to test the moisture of the subfloor and the humidity in the house prior to the installation of this material, the warranty was void. In addition, I was told that our method of cleaning resulted in the problems with the floor. It seems that if the cleaner is sprayed directly on the floor, the material absorbs the moisture along the edges and this was another reason for the damage to the bamboo flooring. We purchased a 32 oz. bottle of cleaner after the floor was installed. Most of the time, the cleaning involves sweeping and using a dust mop. About once a month we get on our hands and knees, spray a fine mist of cleaner directly onto the floor and use a cloth towel to clean the floor. Since the installation, we have used the liquid cleaner about five times and still have about half of the cleaner left in the bottle. I guess 16 oz. caused the damage to the entire 720 sf of the floor, including the material under the furniture and area rugs!! Seriously?! In reading the various reviews for this product, it seems that there is a chronic problem with scratching, cupping and separations. It seems that Lumber Liquidators will use any excuse to avoid the liability for providing the customer with a very poor product. I understand that a product warranty is only as good as the company that stands behind it. We will have to replace our six month old floor and it sure as heck will not be with a product supplied by Lumber Liquidators. STAY AWAY!!!!! We learned a $5,000.00 lesson the hard way⦠donâÂÂt make the same mistake. STAY AWAY FROM LUMBER LIQUIDATORS! The LLI warranty should be condensed to read: âÂÂWarranty is void if material is removed from factory packagingâÂÂ....See MoreAnother FUNNY thread from the archives
Comments (2)I remember reading that...but it's still just as funny.... I am completely surprised that I didn't find a post from me on there...My DH has done a few things during our 42 years that I tell on him every now and then. patti...See Morelam702
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