i have no idea if you can find a light that will fit your needs and be dependable at that price. i bought the bullet and bought a SpectrumKing LED which are nice but are really expensive and need to be cheaper to be cost effective for anyone using it. i reviewed it on my YouTube channel if you would like to see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZCtJvRmQyI

Don't waste your money on LED lighting.

This will work much better and you don't have to do it my way

. This is 4 foot by 4 foot. using standard lumber or plywood. It uses 12 CFL's at 18 watts each

I personally use a Taotronics blue/red LED light, it's got a low operating temperature and does a decent job. It's a little too strong, though, and bleaches the leaves of my plants as a result. I agree with Steve. Look for CFLs or LED bulbs that have a color temperature of about 5,500 Kelvin, which is around that of sunlight's. You could go for days trying to figure out brightness and whatnot, but it turns out that plants "see" different colors than we do - they absorb the visible light spectrum more readily than our retinas do. Bright light for us has a lot of green light in it, but bright light for plants is largely red and blue. Go for an LED or CFL bulb that has around 900- 1,000 lumens, that'll be plenty for your purposes. Besides, most indoor citrus benefit from resting with lower light over the winter, and it causes less problems with pests and plant stress.

Platinum LED are pretty good and if you contact the manufacturer they will alter the LED mix. You can have them create a Veg only mix (no blooming wave lenghts) and I don't think it would cost for the alter. The p300 in the link below is veg and blooming. The p150 with all veg LED's woulb be equivillent to the P300 veg output with bloom/veg. These guys are bright.

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Platinum-P300-11-band-Grow/dp/B00NTBS91Y/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1427555081&sr=8-10&keywords=300w+led

Forget the LED for 3 years and in the meantime run a metal halide any wattage. It's that blue middle part of the visual spectrum and is the best for vegetative growth versus flowering, etcetera. LED has advantages but its still not all the way there yet.

As concerns the heat factor with the HID spectrum bulbs there are new features built into the ends of hoods that essentially pump cool air through the hood and cool the bulb down extensively so that it can be put closer to a plant. Currency

I have to disagree with you on the LED's ... the LED technology is there now. I'm having incredible results covering a 4x4 area with one 300 watt LED (184 watt draw).... it uses a lot less electricity and generates considerably less heat. Just stay away from the cheap ones.

If it draws 184w then it's a 184w led. Don't get fooled by "equivalency".

i go by results .... have you tried one ?

Yes, they don't compare to a t5ho or hid.

Hi Pip

I am really pushing fluorescents over LED. I have no way to prove either way is best but I can say I get fantastic results out of a 13 watt daylight CFL inside an aluminum foiled 5 gallon bucket set up.

these figs are now 12& 14 months old. I got over 200 figs from these trees. these trees are now in 30 gallon containers and will winter over in dormancy. I hope to get around 1000 figs from these 5 trees. I gave one away to a friend for Christmas 2014 I only use light to get a real big jump from infancy to a sizable producing plant to go outside.

the first pick is a 7 week old pair of jalapeno's and the other is a 8 week old habanero with some newlt planted sweet peppers, eggplant and geraniums. The LED light will hands down out perform CFL and t-5's. It will let you grow thru the entire lifecyle of the plant space permitting.

Your 100% reflective tent not the light is what will make your plants out do mine. even my aluminum foil is 2/3 at best. Otherwise I win at 1/10th the cost of materials

you win on cost but not on output. i doubt you could grow veggies to maturity. I currently have a 42: diameter habanero that's got 40+ peppers with 100's more flowers... and a 2 1/2 foot tall eggplant with 12 flowers and a few egggplants. I've use CFL's and I have 3 4ft 8 bulb T5 units ... They really don't compare regardless of the tent. The LED's really penetrate. I just started some cucumbers the other day as well. They actually outperform my outside garden but then again inside is a 'perfect' environment and they get babied.

Back when I was a legal medical marijuana grower. 2 pounds dry, one plant. 3600w hid. For a size reference those are 5 gallon buckets.

no amount of led even 4000w worth could ever do this.

i don't think I have pictures but I've grown with t5ho start to finish too. Great results.

Penetration is a unquantifiable term. It doesn't really exist. Penetration is really made by multiple light sources. Not by strength of a bulb.

thats why nothing beats the penetration of the sun, it's not the intensity, we can pump more watts per square foot than the sun produces. The sun has everything beat for penetration because for all intents and purposes the light comes from all directions. That's due to how the atmosphere absorbs, re emits, and reflects sunlight.

Steve, his tent isn't 100%. Also even if the material was the wrinkles would ruin that.

you can achieve something like 95-98% with nothing more than white latex with I think 25% titanium dioxide mixed in. Don't quote me but if your interested ill relookup the info.

pip313, can't speak for growing MJ, only veggies and you don't need more then a modern 300watt LED to do that and do it exceptionally. I'm sure HID's are great, but they don't make an eggplant stronger and they are hot as hell (might cook them for me) :) I have two tents with a 450 watt and one with 300 watt and they outperform my garden and blow away the T5's and CFL's. If you haven't looked at modern day LED's ( the higher end with lens, 3 , 5 or 10 watt LED's) then you don't know what they can now do. Take a look if you get a chance. your comment that they don't compare to cfl or t5's I hope you mean they are not as good as LED. If you say they are better then LED's then you haven't looked at them in years or you're just pulling everyone's chains because you don't know what your talking about anymore.

My citrus trees do 75% of their growth in the winter in my CFL powered bucket and box lighting systems. I use Bright white High gloss paint on the boxes and aluminum on the small buckets. The CFL's beat the pants of the LED's price wise and electrically they add a touch more heat to the grow area with the 15% more energy they use and it is much easier to unscrew a $1 CFL than replace. a $39,240.97 LED fixture. The great wizard of OZ even said that " LED will never be practical until they are unbreakable".

I thought the Wizard of Oz mentioned something about the lack of LED affordability instead. Woops.

As far as marijuana vs veggies, your right veggies don't need much but will produce more with more light. Citrus however, the forum we are in, does need light like marijuana does. They are trees after all.

its not true that led put off less heat they just do it over a wider area. Touch a bare diode and tell be they don't get warm. Granted warm is relative but if you feel heat off a 1w diode then you know they do make heat.

400w of hid

400w of t5

400w of led

all put in an enclosed box will heat the box the same. It's still 400w.

Oh I do know exactly what I'm talking about. Also can you quit saying t5? It's t5ho, different technologies and efficiencies.

T5

t5ho

t5vho

all different, t5ho is best.

The only people who need production out of their plants that prefer led is nasa. That's due to the fear of mercury floating around in space should a bulb break.

I have been telling people that a 1000 watt heater does just as good as a 1000 Watt light source. The only difference is the plants are able to use the wasteful by product that is in the visible light spectrum for growth. Heating a room with a ceramic cube or with light bulbs. No difference but you can grow food under the light bulbs. greenhouses should be heated with lights

Very true Steve. Electric heaters and lights are all 100% efficient. Heat is just light in a spectrum we can't see (infrared)

thats how how infrared night vision can work, it just converts the light from invisible to visible.

if I had to use only electricity for heat I wouldn't consider anything but lights. Like you said plants can use the "waste product". Why just make heat when you can make heat and food? Seems like a waste to have any other kind of heater.

Agreed, it's only an issue if you have to dissipate the waste energy. Otherwise, the energy is being put to good use.

all depends on the conditions. My grow area is in a basement where my heater is., plenty of heat and actually gets too hot for me with the T5's (my office is there too unfortunately). I have 3 T5HO's 8 bulb 4 ft units plus a few smaller ones. The area each can cover is about 2ft x 4ft and costs around $220 per unit. A single 300w LED is about $320 per unit but covers 4x4 and does a better job from my experience. The LED's are more expensive (would not want to drop one) but cost effective. My 2 4x4 areas put out 16 flats of seedlings/ flowers in the spring and during the winter i use for assorted produce (hobby). The 3 t5HO's (450 watt each) cost me twice as much to run then the LED's. I imaging the HID's are even more expensive to run.

Can you provide a link to your "300w" led?

Also so it's no surprise your 180w led makes less heat than a 400w t5, it's half the wattage.

already posted

And they are 450 watt T5HO ... not a 400 watt T5 ....

Wow almost $400 for a fixture you can't even change the bulbs in?

Enjoy your led.

To everyone else, there are no actual output figures. It costs as much as 2 t5ho fixtures, but is only as strong as half of one.

If it's so powerful why doesn't it quantify the output?

be sceptical of anything claiming to be "as powerful as" something known to be very efficient (hps) at half of the wattage.

Enjoy your lame little lights, tell people they are great and live a happy deprived life. The proof is in the results which you will never know :) Unfortunately guys like you mislead everyone else spewing misinformation. The lights are $369 and worth it (they cover 2x what a t5ho 4ft unit would cover and grow many times better. https://platinumgrowlights.com/products/p300 .

they also have a 5 year warranty and a 50,000-100,000 hour lifespan on the 3 watt diodes. So if you like changing bulbs, by all means don't get these or you will be disapointed.

$5.00 +/- including the 13 watt daylight CFL

Have fun buying into sales gimmicks and lies.

They magically developed bulbs twice as efficient as anyone else. But don't quantify their output. Even though they buy their bulbs from others.

They claim to use Cree and another manufacturers bulbs only. Problem is they claim to include spectrums not made by those manufacturers.

Ive got some magic beans that will grow citrus twice as fast and flavorful of normal varieties. I can't tell you anything else though.

Dont listen to me people, or him. Read grow reports of people using the bulbs. Plenty of pot heads bought these fixtures. Like that group of people or not they are dedicated to results. Read the forums. See that most of the people who like these have single digit post counts (new profiles made just to review these lights)

one at a time, steve, I'd like to see you try 16 flats of flowers doing it with your junkyard method. You would need 60 of them and they still wouldn't produce as good. I find it comical that you would even suggest that. Pip, i'm not listening to the hype, don't grow pot so I have a clear head on this, what I have found FROM REAL EXPERIENCE WITH THEM is that the lights actually kick ass and works far better then the T5HO lights I used in previuos years (I'll sell them to you cheap if you want them). Most of the grow reports are for older technologies going back years, look at the dates, get with the times. Newer review have the P300 light listed with raving reviews and among the top of the breed. I know you're having fun, but please stop spreading wrong info,( or uninformed info as you have never even heard of these until now) , there could be people that would want to use a better (but higher priced) light. each to his own.

That product of yours is a 2011 product. So it is old technology.

Im not having fun, I'm worried others will drink the cool aid.

and it doesn't matter what kind of plant, chlorophyll is the same. Chlorophyll a and chlorophyll b.

The reason I mention pot growers is because they care heavily about production, quality and quantity. They measure success in grams. Their plants have similar light requirements to fruit trees.

and as far as "top of their breed" sorry but no. They are not. Mars lights are higher rated. Cheaper too.

And I'm sure he'll have better success with "junk yard" CFL than you will with over hyped over priced junk.

Fukushu#1 & #2 & Lemonade trees under my "hunk" lights in that line up.

your an idiot then

i see steve that you have no plant with any width ....

I have a habanero 42" diameter, 30" tall with 100+ peppers ... doubt you would fit that in a pail or even get it that far.

You refer to a 183w as a 300 watt and don't understand why it's not the same.

sorry but the idiot isn't me.

It spent 1.4 years in a bucket light to near 6 feet tall. I spread the limbs and planted it out side and it exploded. My other trees will go out side next year after growing like a weed in the buckets. Also 13 watts does not hold a candle to 183 watts. Unfair contest.

It sounds like your HABANERO is producing so many peppers that a lot of heat is leaking out on to this thread. I suggest you make HOT SAUCE with all that heat instead of letting it leak out here. Don't waste electricity or LED life.