Problems with Farrow and Ball Primer Coat

9 years ago

Today I put Farrow and Ball Primer over Sherwin Williams Latex Primer that was rolled on 4 days prior. This was my first time using Farrow and Ball.

I started out trying to find a suitable roller nap and so rolled and re-rolled over a wet area without problems . I settled on using a 1/2" nap. But after moving on with my painting, I started having problems with the paint lifting while rolling back into the just previously painted section. That was the case on most of the walls in the large room.

I tried to work fast and watch my "dry" rolling but it seemed to be unavoidable. What is really strange is that in some spots, there was no problem at all with lifting even without being particularly careful.

After finishing up and while looking over the areas I first rolled that were now dry to touch, I found some patches of cracking/flaking paint. Not much of this. I found one somewhat large section that the paint was literally sliding down the wall. It was one of those area that had lifted from rolling into it. I scraped the sliding paint off the best I could and left the rest alone.

Part of the walls were new drywall primed in the SW Harmony 4 days ago and some of that was skimmed over and sanded yesterday. Most of the walls had been painted 10 years ago and 4 days ago primed with SW Harmony.

I'm pretty sure the temperature in that area of the house was around mid-60's while applying the primer as I was able to work in there in a tanktop. It had been around 70degF 2 hours earlier but I closed the door to the heated area of the house and the temperature dropped in the area being painted. Temperatures outside were in the high-30's and these walls are mainly exterior.

I usually use Sherwin Williams and Zinnsser products and have used other brands in the past but have never seen anything like this. On the other hand, I have never painted in these temperatures nor used Farrow and Ball either.

Anyone have some insight on this?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can lend.

Featured Answer

Michael

9 years ago

Paint behaves like that when a loose residue is on the wall. Sanding dust is the usual culprit. What type of cleanup was done after the skim coat sanding? Since the primer adhered well I'm convinced the problem was created after the primer application.

Farrow & Ball:

All surfaces must be sound, clean, dry and free from dirt, grease and other contamination.

Flaking or peeling may occur if painting over weak paint layers

Do not paint in temperatures below 50° F or excessive heat above

86°F.

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Comments (12)

sandmtn_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Are you talking about the lifting while wet or cracking?

I put the SW primer on without any wiping/cleaning of the wall the day after the drywall finisher left. I didn't even think about wiping the walls down before applying the F&B primer after the second sanding was done.

Thanks for answering.
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Michael
9 years ago
I put the SW primer on without any wiping/cleaning of the wall the day after the drywall finisher left.

I think that answers your question.
sandmtn_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Brushworks, I appreciate your responding. Actually the SW coat went on and seemed to adhere perfectly. Everything looked great until I started with the F&B primer after the followup skimming and resanding.

After doing some more researching and talking with the drywall finisher, I think there were several things going on including the dust from that last sanding, fresh drywall for which F&B says to dilute the primer, the temperature was likely mid-fifties or lower with some of the wall maybe even being close to 50F (temp in there now is 61F and it was much cooler that day), and lastly, the F&B primer may not be compatible with the SW latex primer. Is the F&B interior wall and ceiling primer an alkyd? And does putting an alkyd water-based primer over a latex primer cause failure?

I've tried sanding and it is not working out very well for me. It is dry as I am getting dust. I've called the drywall finisher and asked him to come back out and skim over the rough areas.

After he finishes and I (this time) clean the dust off and make sure the temperature is well above 50F, what primer should I use before putting the F&B primer on to make sure there are no compatibility issues?

I have used Zinnser primers (BIN and 123) before and have trust in them and have read that Cover Stain is recommened - would that be the latex or oil-based? I called F&B and they tell me they don't test with other brands and so can't guarantee compatibility.

Or should I put a diluted F&B primer coat on the skim-coat areas and then follow up overall with a regular coat? Not all of the wall will have a skim coat on it.

Brushworks, Do you think it really was just the dust (and maybe temp) issue and I don't really have to worry about compatibility?

Thanks for any and all advice. I really want to avoid messing this up again.
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Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting
9 years ago
I would skip the f@b primer altogether
Michael
9 years ago
I agree with Christopher. Eliminate the F&B primer from the equation. Use the SW primer and proceed.
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Sombreuil
9 years ago
Unless you have some very deeply textured walls, 1/2" nap is too heavy IMO. 3/8" is what I'd use. It's quite unusual to see oil primer cause previous primers and patches to lift. In fact oil primer is what I use to ensure that drywall compound patches don't lift.

Casey
Michael
9 years ago
For DIY, 3/8" nap is probably sufficient and safer, but most pro painters will be using a 1/2" nap to bring more paint to the wall to cover more area. Saves time and increases profits. When working with patches and joint compounds, I do believe GARDZ is the best choice. It's compatible with everything.
sandmtn_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Brushworks/ Christopher/Casey, Thank you for all advice. I will buy some 3/8" nap rollers and am planning to experiment with putting the F&B topcoat on some other primers including Zinsser Bullseye 123. I have used Gardz once and did not like the result - had a heavier texture than I wanted.
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Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting
9 years ago
. I have used Gardz once and did not like the result - had a heavier texture

Really? I have never noticed any texture with Gardz
sandmtn_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Christopher, About 5 yrs ago, I put Gardz on a small bathroom fresh drywall. I remember that it made a rougher stippled finish than I was used to seeing. Maybe I was using a roller with a higher nap than I should have.
sandmtn_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Update:

I experimented with the F&B primer over Zinsser Bullseye 123 and SW Harmony primer.

The failures I experienced before was repeated with the Harmony primer - cracking/crazing and lifting on wet backrolling.

Over the Zinsser, the F&B primer looked great with the same application treatment.

Then I put the F&B topcoat over the Zinsser and Harmony primers (no F&B primer in-between). Both look good with no failures. Zinsser area looks slightly better.

Problems with Farrow and Ball Primer Coat

Michael

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Problems with Farrow and Ball Primer Coat

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