hairmetal - do you mind sharing the name of the nursery in Purcellville? BTW - went to Susanna Farms for the first time in donkey's years. OMG they are expensive. But being in MoCo like that, I can't really blame them. Charge what the market will bare. Oddly they had some wierd bargains that almost felt like they'd forgotten to add a 0 to a price. Unfortunately they were too big to fit in my car, like a nice Juniperus rigida pendula, that I think was only $79. It was huge. I really wanted to get something but just couldn't hold my nose tightly enough. I can understand pricing something like a showy Japanese maple high. But they had some little Trochodendrons that were no more than 20" high. Sure they are slow growing when small...but $120? Who's going to buy that? At that size they are about the most anonymous, bland, broad leaved evergreens imaginable. They look like scrounged up bunches of English Ivy. I maybe could have gone up to $65 out of the kindness of my heart, but, $120? Nope. But if they get rich suckers from Potomac to pay those prices, good for them. They do have a nice selection of what I'd call the standard upscale plants...which is getting harder and harder to find. For example also took a quick walk 'round Merrifield's Merrifield location (haha), was disappointed with their selection of similar stuff. If it's showy and marketable, like the Encore Azaleas, they make room for it. Otherwise, overall a more utilitarian, albeit slightly less expensive, selection. And still heavily pushing Leyland Cypresses which is a questionable business practice IMHO. This post was edited by davidrt28 on Wed, Oct 16, 13 at 23:46

PH - I forgot to commrent on that "over-potting" thing. Here is an ovedrview of what determines appropriate pot size, from something I wrote and posted to another thread or two past: How large a container 'can' or 'should' be, depends on the relationship between the mass of the plant material you are working with and your choice of soil. We often concern ourselves with "over-potting" (using a container that is too large), but "over-potting" is a term that arises from a lack of a basic understanding about the relationship we will look at, which logically determines appropriate container size. It's often parroted that you should only move up one container size when "potting-up". The reasoning is, that when potting up to a container more than one size larger, the soil will remain wet too long and cause root rot issues, but it is the size/mass of the plant material you are working with, and the physical properties of the soil you choose that determines both the upper & lower limits of appropriate container size - not a formulaic upward progression of container sizes. In many cases, after root pruning a plant, it may even be appropriate to step down a container size or two, but as you will see, that also depends on the physical properties of the soil you choose. Plants grown in 'slow' (slow-draining/water-retentive) soils need to be grown in containers with smaller soil volumes so that the plant can use water quickly, allowing air to return to the soil before root issues beyond impaired root function/metabolism become a limiting factor. We know that the anaerobic (airless) conditions that accompany soggy soils quickly kill fine roots and impair root function/metabolism. We also know smaller soil volumes and the root constriction that accompany them cause plants to both extend branches and gain o/a mass much more slowly - a bane if rapid growth is the goal - a boon if growth restriction and a compact plant are what you have your sights set on. Conversely, rampant growth can be had by growing in very large containers and in very fast soils where frequent watering and fertilizing is required - so it's not that plants rebel at being potted into very large containers per se, but rather, they rebel at being potted into very large containers with a soil that is too slow and water-retentive. This is a key point. We know that there is an inverse relationship between soil particle size and the height of the perched water table (PWT) in containers. As particle size increases, the height of the PWT decreases, until at about a particle size of just under 1/8 inch, soils will no longer hold perched water. If there is no perched water, the soil is ALWAYS well aerated, even when the soil is at container capacity (fully saturated). So, if you aim for a soil (like the gritty mix) composed primarily of particles larger than 1/16", there is no upper limit to container size, other than what you can practically manage. The lower size limit will be determined by the soil volume's ability to allow room for roots to 'run' and to furnish water enough to sustain the plant between irrigations. Bearing heavily on this ability is the ratio of fine roots to coarse roots. It takes a minimum amount of fine rootage to support the canopy under high water demand. If the container is full of large roots, there may not be room for a sufficient volume of the fine roots that do all the water/nutrient delivery work and the coarse roots, too. You can grow a very large plant in a very small container if the roots have been well managed and the lion's share of the rootage is fine. You can also grow very small plants, even seedlings, in very large containers if the soil is fast (free-draining and well-aerated) enough that the soil holds no, or very little perched water. I have just offered clear illustration that the oft repeated advice to 'only pot up one size at a time', only applies when using heavy, water-retentive soils. Those using well-aerated soils are not bound by the same restrictions. Al

Propagating is a sit around and wait sort of thing but if you give the branch a slight tug and it doesn't come out of the dirt easily I just leave it. I have cuttings in my garden right now that were placed at the same time and one is growing new leaves everday and is nice and green. but the other four are almost all brown but the branches are nice and firm without wrinkles and they are very tight in the ground. Just remember till there are roots which takes a long time they won't be needing any fertilizer. I still can only get cuttings to grow with a mixture of cactus supersoil and regular supersoil potting mix. Didn't have any cactus mix left and those cuttings just in potting soil and perlite aren't doing as well and yet one where it was a nice branch with four nice arms a perfect purchased rose and still; a cutting is still sitting there green after a couple of weeks. So you see that propigating is a matter of trial and error.. debbysunshine@hotmail.com

Bunny6, your compost sounds like a good bet, assuming the texture is suitable. Sativa, I've often used bagged composted steer manure as a component in rooting media, though never for roses. I used to routinely root hydrangeas and gardenias in 25% manure in Miracle-Gro potting mix plus some extra perlite. Rot was never a problem. I never tried the mix with roses, though, because the dominant voices in this forum around the time I was starting out were pushing play sand or turkey grit (with or without a little peat) and cautioning against using anything too rich. You don't hear much about sand anymore, but if you watch this forum long enough you'll see just about every rooting medium imaginable being promoted as the best. The soil-less potting mix George Mander uses (or at least used to use) is Sun Gro's Sunshine Mix #4, which is formulated for fast drainage and high air capacity. This is the product the company recommends to professionals for rooting cuttings, but unfortunately, they don't distribute in this region and no one else around here markets anything equivalent. I tried just about every brand of "regular" peat moss based potting mix I could find and none of them yielded much better than mediocre results. Maybe it's because the water supply is exceptionally soft in this area, causing peat moss to soak up more water than it ordinarily would, but I didn't seem to be able to add enough sand or perlite to eliminate a high risk of rot. Forest byproduct based potting mixes like Miracle-Gro work better in my hands, even for roses, though not as well as coir or composted pine bark fines. In the end I settled on a "standard" rooting medium based as much on economy as efficacy. Pine bark is a local product and dirt cheap.