That's two cubic yards! Good thing you don't NEED to fill it all at once. Got a pickup? Craig's List has listings for composted (to various degrees) horse manure. Pick it up yourself and the more composted it is the more you'll pay, but it's a ton cheaper than bagged big box stuff.

The good news is, if you're waiting for Spring to start planting, start now. The Other Season starts in three months and it's not going to seem to be in a good mood when it finds you're first-timing it.

The only real advice is to plant everything you can think of. Then take what fails and analyze why, and take what succeeds and analyze why there too.

EDIT: PS: link examples
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/grd/4805095659.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/grd/4845545879.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/grd/4841721118.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/grd/4822326155.html

This post was edited by grubby_me on Tue, Jan 20, 15 at 20:49

as for planting:

http://www.phoenixpermaculture.org/forum/topics/january-planting-tips-1 [you can search for all 12 months repeated about 3 years back issues]

http://www.phoenixpermaculture.org/forum/topics/february-planting-tips

http://www.phoenixpermaculture.org/forum/topics/more-seasonal-transition-tips-in-the-garden

http://ag.arizona.edu/maricopa/garden/html/pubs/pubs.htm#Vegetable [AZ1435, AZ1005]

http://cals.arizona.edu/maricopa/garden/html/pubs/mgpress/mgpress.htm

http://gardenguy.com/shop/extreme-gardening/

While you are on Craigslist look for people advertising organic gardening soil. Go there with a pickup truck and check it out. Should have a good soil smell, no foul odors. Ask what is in it? There should be little to no identifiable parts in a good composted soil. 2 level full sized pickup truck beds = 2 cu yds.

first.. turn off the technology... it will swamp you with too much info.. like the guy who gives you 55 links .... he appears to be a fascist of some kind.. lol ....

buy a wheelbarrow ....find a seller of good soil ...

have them deliver 3 yards to your driveway ... move it with your new wheelbarrow ... overfill it by a few inches.. to allow for settling ... pile the rest for your next bed.. or in case it settles more than we anticipate ....

and plant anything.. and everything .... that your little heart desires ...

and learn thru experimenting ...

every garden is a micro climate.. what the guy next door grows.. might not grow for you ... so whats the point of everyone elses ideas ....

when i learned.. before the web.. i just visited all the local sellers.. and bought things.. some things thrived.. other things thrived.. and i learned ... the problem with the web.. is that you can get paralyzed by too much info ... gardening is not really a science.. where there are known answers for everything.. its more of an art.. and you plant everything.. until you find your muse .... which means.. lol.. wing it ....

and once you get past that point.. then you can worry about trying seed growing.. etc ....

your best resource.. would be to find and join.. a local garden club ... if for nothing else.. to visit other local gardens...and meet peeps in your own area.. who actually can give you some GOOD LOCAL info [like a good soil seller] .... as compared to talking to me in MI.. or some fascist ... crikey.. what a name .. lol ...

the bottom line.. just freaking do it.. and forget about the 2.5 million opinions online....

and NEVER FORGET.... you arent a true.. real ... gardener.. until you have killed EVERY STINKIN PLANT ... three times.. after such.. is when your thumb.. starts turning green ... lol ...

good luck

ken

ps: you need to use forums.. other than AZ .... if you want to learn more ... there is no reason to limit yourself here ....

My experience is you need soil to go with the cheap organic stuff you have in the bed---but not that much.

I'd concentrate on getting the organic part of bed in shape, lasagna gardening, or whatever,and add a few bags of el cheapo "top soil". For two yards, I'd figure on maybe 15 bags or so.

"2 level full sized pickup truck beds = 2 cu yds."

Depends. I have a full size 8 foot bed on the truck and it calculates to 62 or 63 cubic feet level to the gunnels, so to speak. Marlene the chicken lady with tons of free organic eggs always gets about a third, and Frank the guy who's so coupon crazy he makes money by going to the store and invites me along gets about a fourth or less, so that leaves about 27 feet.

Hey, you were right. Sorry...

"wing it ..."

+1

Yes, take gardening advice from the guy from Michigan living in USDA zone 5 conditions. lol You know most of his experience will be applicable in north Phoenix.

He did remind me of another good idea however, get a compost pile going at the same time to replace soil between plantings (unless you can afford that 3rd cu yd of soil). Can't beat free and knowing what went into the compost.

This post was edited by Fascist_Nation on Wed, Jan 21, 15 at 8:06

I know nothing about raised beds. Never cared for the concept so can't help.

The concept of micro climates has been interesting.

For years I'd heard about micro climates. They never made any sense in most climates I've lived in...San Jose CA, Pensacola FL, Rochester NY, Germany and even in TX and AK. Yes, a few obvious differences like south facing for earlier starts in cold climates, but nothing worth having a special term.

Here in Phoenix that changed. Moving a plant even a few inches in a garden made a surprising difference. I've found management of sun to be really important for plants that can't take 100% in order to extend the growing season for vegetables, many flowers, etc. I see it the same as frost management. Move a plant under a house eve or tree and no frost damage.

Unfortunately I've found it so subtle that it really isn't possible to give any precise advice. What I've done is plant in pots around the yard and see how different plants react. When I find the best spot I design around that. Takes a few years, but that's what I did. And I have to do that every time I've moved in Phoenix (3 so far). I do have hunches now so it's easier.

One issue I do suspect is soil in pots becoming too hot. I was transplanting a potted plant once, mid day in summer, and the soil in the pot was so hot I could barely touch it. How any plant survives those conditions is amazing. Now I'm shading pots.

Another thing I suspect is many places say stuff like vegetable X requires N hours of sun per day. More sunlight is always better, AK in summer is crazy good. In Phoenix in late spring, summer, early fall, sunlight = heat = death/dormant, so we have to deal with that. But we have one advantage, lots of sunny days. So I think I can get away with slightly less hours of sun per day and still get some reasonable result.

For me, I'm more of a try everything to learn my yard. I threw away my Sunset Western gardening book, stopped watching gardening TV shows, reduce reading gardening info online after moving to Phoenix. It wasn't relevant, it was misleading. Even talking to neighbor gardeners often steered me wrong. People can have wildly different concepts of what "you can grow X here". For example tomatoes. I've heard many people say they grow tomatoes here and when I see the plants I see an almost dead plant and no fruit. When they say "tomatoes grow here" they were talking about the plant, not the fruit. It gets confusing. I have seen pictures of healthy tomato plants posted, pictures of fruit and lots of people say growing tomatoes is no problem...I don't doubt them. They lucked into a great micro climate spot I assume and they then assume anyone can grow the same lovely crop in any location. I haven't found that to be true. And for sure you can't asked any questions of most people because they're so insecure on the subject they instantly get super defensive. Only once in a great while will you run into a "gardener" that can carry on a civil in depth discussion.

My view on vegetables is shifting to give up on summer and focus on winter. It's easier I think to raise the temp here in winter with a greenhouse/cold frame than deal with summer's sun/heat/low humidity. Look at our temps, sun, humidity right now...looks a lot like most of the country's summer values. Even a crappy cold frame/greenhouse can push today's temps even into prime tomato growing range. That could extend the tomato growing season from say Oct to June, 8 months. Seem like a better plan for me than the 2-3 month season we have in the spring and again in the fall at least for some vegetables.

That's only what I've done. Not saying it's how anyone else should or that it's right. I'm still learning.

Thank you for the advice. Winging it on the things to plant seems like a good option but I want to ensure I have good soil. I'm not familiar with all the different elments that go into good soil. I've been doing some reading and it sounds like 60 percent top soil, 30 percent compost and 10 percent organic fertilizer is a good mix. Does that sound right? People seem to be recommending Craigslist list a lot. Is that just for the compost? Or should I be looking for the ready to plant in garden soil.

Until two months ago I would have told you to get your dirt from Baker - that's where I got mine - 4 yards, delivered right to my driveway. I think someone told me Singh Farms will deliver high quality soil when I was on the same quest as you.

Terms like "top soil" and "organic fertilizer" is kind of ambiguous so to me people saying 10% organic fertilizer is not something I would consider useful. The net is full of people saying stuff...whatever pops into their heads.

Vegetables can grow very well in 100% compost...depending on the compost of course. Vegetables can grow very well in 100% top soil...depending on the top soil.

I once grew tomatoes in purchased "top soil" as part of an experiment. It looked bad, chunks of plastic, and smelled of ammonia so not composted. The tomato died within a day. So buying product is no guarantee. I always open the bag to before buying. Sure can't tell from the label what's in the bag.

By watering enough and adding fertilizer vegetables can grow very well in sand.

Why not just try the soil you have in the yard? There's just no substitute for gaining experience. Or buy a couple of bags of composted mulch from Home Depot (I recently got the cheapest composted mulch I think, 3 cu ft for $4 something and it was great) and maybe a few bags of Steer Manure Blend (1 cu. ft bag for $1.09 and surprisingly well composted) and mix that with your soil and see how you like it.

My own personal formula for "good" soil is clay, organic and sand. Here in Phoenix I prefer a lot more clay because it holds moisture better. But it depends on the plant. For vegetables applying fertilizer often is more important than soil and so is lots of water. Soil isn't super important imo.

When you get topsoil and when you get compost, they're both a crapshoot, especially topsoil as it has no definition that applies. Even compost is all across the map, but most of that is uncertainty about just how rotted it is. One big advantage with manure is there is a real pressure, some of it governmental, to get rid of the stuff. On farm type operations, not so much, but places like boarding stables usually have a load to lose. Many just pile it up and periodically post an ad somewhere cheap (Craig's List is only one) to try and get gardeners to come and take it off their hands. Some of them do some marketing of it as "compost" instead of "manure", but they still mostly have no use for it.

I have managed so far to take what I get and let it sit for a long while. It's a pathogen/medicine/additive thing because family food plants that will grow in it. It's not a critical thing, just being careful and it's passive, especially after the first year's start-up rush.

As for soil ratios, you'll get opinions that vary widely. You can grow in straight sand or in straight manure compost, but neither will get you easy success. The commonly quoted ratios (shake test?) are just guesses for the specifics of one garden. The ratios can vary a huge amount without problems, but if you do have problems then it's time to get picky about things. Only then. Gardening is extremely local and it's often about finding solutions to problems for next time.

SOME SCATTERED RESOURCES

Example prices in Tucson from the Fairfax landfills: Organic Compost ASCO Verified Bulk, sold by the cubic yard $34/yrd. Top Soil (50% Screened Soil/ 50% compost) $25/yrd

Right Away Disposing (http://www.rightawaydisposal.com/waste-recycling-facility.php) blurb: RAD Also sells our top quality mulch product. Our mulch material is 100% green waste composted material. This green waste material is disposed of by local landscape companies and repurposed into high quality mulch. $30 per ton - $20 minimum charge. RAD will load the material with a skid steer or front end loader. Delivery is available.

Haldiman Farm (stables), Organic Compost, Haldimanfarm.com, 227 W. Beverly Road in Phoenix, Arizona "We have Organic Compost , very reasonable. We fill your truck or trailer. $10.00 for a truck load."

Here's a link to an old thread with some good info, maybe you will find it useful:

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Soil Discussion

There are people who have grown vegetables in 100% compost with what they claim to be great success.

Tomatoes in 100% compost.

Bunch of different vegetables in different kinds of compost.

Almost 100% compost discussion.

Lots more. I'm not saying it should be anyone's choice for a hot dry climate, but learning about different ways plants are grown is a great way to learn what might fit your goals.

I love this page about compost and soil. Sums up my thinking on soil. I amend soil more to suit my desire than the plants. I like working in a certain kind of soil, a certain smell, so weeding is easy, etc.

If you want to go into crazy depth on soil and compost I don't think you can beat John Kohler's videos like this one specifically on explaining different kinds of compst. He's very intense but tries many things, visits many interesting gardeners. Days and days worth of viewing.

Just over 2 yards. Call Tim's garden soil