Frieda I haven't heard of this book, or seen it advertised, reviewed etc. here in the UK and on reading the reports at Amazon.uk wasn't all that impressed . . . but then I don't enjoy faux-Victorian/noir mysteries . . . so don't think I'll be ordering it from the library. I almost never buy fiction.
Just looked up Michael Cox and it seems his days job is as an editor of ghost stories and it took him 30 years to 'do' The M of N.
So sorry; but not for me.

Vee, I could've guessed that The Meaning of Night is not your type of book. :-)

I am always suspicious that books are being overhyped -- The Da Vinci Code, Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell, The Shadow of the Wind, and The Rule of Four come to mind as recent books that might be satisfying enough if they hadn't been hyped through the roof. Will I ever learn? Probably not, because I am always hopeful one of these books will actually live up to the almost-impossible expectations the hype sets up for them. It does happen -- infrequently, but often enough that, like winning a lottery prize once, I'm willing to take another chance.

Do you know what the author Cox's "circumstances" are that are alluded to in several reviews? See, his credentials as an editor of ghost stories makes me more curious about his effort to write a novel.

He apparently had health issues (cancer) that resulted in losing his sight. Below is a link to an interview.

Here is a link that might be useful: Michael Cox Interview

Whew! The review on Amazon was quite something all by itself, I'll be very interested to hear what you think of the book, Frieda. I also noticed they paired it with The Thirteenth Tale in the "buy these books together" section. Hmmm.

That section always makes me laugh, as well as the 'recommendations' they make for you. They often have no basis in reality.

Like veer, I'm not much interested in this one, but would be interested in your report, frieda. And btw I'd add Thirteenth Tale to your list of overhyped books.

Whats funny is that I read Da Vinci Code soon after it came out, pushed on me by my sis. Then I thought it a page turner, but was so turned off by the last third that I never gave it another thought. Then mad did it take off!

dorrieann, thank you for the link to the Michael Cox interview! Did you know beforehand about Cox and The Meaning of Night or did you look him up especially for this thread? Either way, I appreciate your response so much.

I like the way Cox interviews -- he seems up and up, and explains how he's been working on this book through tribulations but isn't maudlin. I didn't realize that he's been the editor of the Oxford University Press short-story anthologies of English ghost stories, Victorian ghost stories, and Victorian detective stories -- all of which I have and have dipped into many, many times. With his experience of reading and collecting ghost stories, his credentials are solidified, in my opinion, for him to attempt a Victorian-noir mystery, though faux it may be, as Vee says.

The Meaning of Night has been compared not only to the works of Wilkie Collins and Charles Dickens but also to Sarah Waters's Fingersmith, which I enjoyed very much, and An Instance of the Fingerpost by Pears, which I thought was a bit overblown.

This excerpt from the interview puts a lid on my anxieties:
Why do you think historical crime fiction is so popular?

Historical fiction is essentially escapist fiction  and for me that is very far from being a pejorative term. I mostly think of myself as writing literary entertainment; but IÂd also be very happy to be thought of as writing escapist fiction. ItÂs a bad, bad world out there, and itÂs imperative that we have the means to shut ourselves off from it, from time to time, and transport ourselves into other worlds and times, real or imagined  whether itÂs Middle Earth, Hogwarts, Baker Street, Narnia, or some historical period that holds a particular fascination for us.
I don't give two hoots about Middle Earth, Hogwarts, or Narnia, but what he's saying otherwise jibes with my way of thinking -- making me think: he's the kind of writer that I want to get to know, through his storytelling. I will now try to push aside my cynicism and at least give his book a fair chance.

Sheri, I will certainly let you know what I think of The Meaning of Night. The pairing of it with The Thirteenth Tale caught my eye, too. Like Cindy, I usually think the recommendation feature is mostly hooey, but I have to admit it nailed me on this one.

Cindy, TTT might have been overhyped, and I have to admit I was a bit disappointed with it. But I'm glad I read it -- look at the good conversation that ensued in the discussion thread -- and as time passes I have fonder and fonder feelings toward it. I probably will never choose to read it again for pure pleasure or as a comfort read, but it was certainly worth a one-time reading, in my opinion.

Now, I just need to take my own advice and not get too worked up. My buyer's remorse is at bay; and I'm happily anticipating the arrival and reading of The Meaning of Night, thanks to the back up you all have provided.

frieda, I agree - the conversation on TTT was really fascinating, and it helped me see some parts of it in a different light.

>but also to Sarah Waters's Fingersmith, which I enjoyed very much, and An Instance of the Fingerpost by Pears, which I thought was a bit overblown.

Mmmmm - I loved both of those (tho agree that Fingerpost could have used a better editor). With those pairings I might just have to take a glance at it.

Frieda, I've been hearing a lot of buzz on this book since it was released, and remembered an interview with Cox linked on a mystery blog I frequent. I went there to take a look after your question aroused my curiosity.

I may read the book eventually, but I'm a bit overwhelmed after a huge book-buying frenzy in recent months. I guess I took a 'wait and see' attitude, which has helped in recent months to separate the hype from the talent. So if anyone ends up reading it, please do post what you think.

It will be interesting to see what people think of this book.
A couple of further quotes I found about it read 'packaged as a DA Vinci Code successor' and 'substandard ersatz hockum' and a long approving article in the Guardian.

Like many of you I don't go to Amazon for recommendation, usually just to get an idea of price.
I have read a glowing report in the Daily Telegraph of just out My Name was Judas by the NZ writer C K Stead, yet an NZ publication described it as 'mundane' and an UK Amazon report says it is 'inaccurate'!
In this story Judas didn't hang himself but went into hiding, changed his identity and retells the NT from his point of view.
Has this reached the US yet?
I have ordered it to give to a friend who became a nun. There is nothing like putting the cat among the pigeons, as we say over here. :-)

>'packaged as a DA Vinci Code successor'

That would send me screaming into the night.

'packaged as a DA Vinci Code successor'Cindy, I wouldn't start screaming until I knew who claimed it. Lots of the disparagers are about as trustworthy as the hype-makers. I think The Da Vinci Code is schlock, but a lot of critics surely have their noses out of joint because readers ignored them and bought the book anyway, and enjoyed it -- how dare they!! Of course, there's a group of readers who took The Da Vinci Code too seriously, but they are the type who become fanatical about whatever they undertake -- much like a certain group of fans who think Harry Potter is the best thing ever created.

Quiet word of mouth seems to me to be the most dependable way of learning about good or even extraordinary books or films, etc. There's a word for that but it won't come to me -- underground maybe? It's similar to how films that developed an audience slowly, by word of mouth, were called cult favorites; but cult is overused now, and generally has come to mean a film that is more-than-slightly weird or just downright kinky.

Vee, your experience reading one glowing report for My Name Was Judas and two conflicting ones is about what I usually come across, except at Amazon where the reader reviews run about 9 out of 10 in agreement with each other, whether positively or negatively. C.K. Stead's book apparently hasn't hit the US market yet -- at least Amazon says it is currently unavailable.

Frieda, I do know what you mean by "word of mouth" and "underground", I think. I prefer the recommendations of folk here at RP to any so-called "critics". I might add the same for cinema.

By the way, did you ever find and read "The Stolen Child"?

Mary, I ordered The Stolen Child along with the Moscow memoir (can't think of title) that you recommended in the October thread. I had them sent to my home address and they are probably waiting for me there. I haven't been home in more than a month, so when I eventually get back there I should have plenty to read, for a while.

I posted in the November thread about reading Mockingbird: A Portrait of Harper Lee (just upthread of your post). Now, that's one that blindsided me: I hadn't heard any buzz, good or bad, prior to my running across it in a Houston bookstore, though apparently it has been out since last May. Not even my South Carolinian sister-in-law, who usually keeps up with southern things, had read it. I notice the critical reviews of it are tepid and there's only one bookjacket blurb -- from Anne River Siddons, your "favorite," ha! As I wrote, though, in my brief mention in the November thread, I appreciate Shields's effort as the first of its kind. Yes, it could have been better; but I imagine writing a respectful, though unauthorized, biography of a living person is a matter of balancing on a finer line than dealing with a deceased subject.

I was taken with the descriptions of Nelle Lee's early writings, several of which were clearly forerunners of TKAM. I found it interesting, too, that her editor helped Lee by suggesting that she tie the vignettes together and search for an overarching theme. The theme Lee chose was, of course, the hypocrisy of racial prejudice -- but on a small-town level and not the national one that was festering at the time. That choice, no doubt in my opinion, is what launched TKAM, because otherwise her book would have been a nostalgic piece (rather like Capote's "The Grass Harp") -- fascinating but more of local interest.

The other part of the Lee bio that fascinates me is the Kansas sojourn. The film "Capote" attempted to depict this, but as it was a character study of Capote, Lee was there but rather sketchily drawn. Yet, she was intrinsic: if she hadn't been there Capote would've been shunned. Another thing: Lee "toured" the Clutter house and took notes on her impressions. I was a bit shocked that she deduced that the Clutters were a troubled family. Capote fudged on the portraits of the family, particularly of Herb Clutter. And the fact that Capote dedicated In Cold Blood to his lover, not to Lee...well, I fully understand her feelings of being snubbed.

Mary, what, if anything, surprised you about Mockingbird?

>I wouldn't start screaming until I knew who claimed it.

You are right of course. Funny, I did first read this book via word of mouth - my sis called me the moment she finished it (when it first came out) and told me I must read it. Thats actually how I get most of my recs - from other readers either in my family, among friends, or on the net forums. In a way its cut down on my browsing - I tend to look for certain books now and don't spend as much time as scourering (sp) the shelves. But I certainly have found gems that the critics forgot, or disliked.

I put a hold on this book at the library and am #11. I'm assuming that you will start a discussion thread about this Frieda? (I'll stick with the library until someone here at RP recommends it as a buy, rather than a borrow.)

Janalyn: Oh good! With you reading The Meaning of Night, I will have even more incentive to delve into it so I can discuss it with you -- or cuss it, as the case may be, if it turns out not to be all it's touted to be. How did you find out about TMON?

I'm seldom a leading edge-type reader. Those readers who always know about or have read the latest thing, or who are willing to be guinea pigs, simply amaze me. How do they do it? Where do they find the time? I am too lazy and particular in my taste, I suppose, so I sit back and let other readers do the initial work.

Janalyn, I hadn't planned on starting a TMON-exclusive discussion thread, but I will -- even if it's only for you and me, though hopefully other readers will materialize too.

Hmm, if you are #11 at your library, you probably won't get your hands on the book for a while. That's actually good for me, because I won't get home until the 28th of November. I have my annual Christmas-season brass-quartet gig (I'm the French horn player) and then I have a couple of boatloads of guests arriving for Christmas; so I'll be busier than the sorcerer's apprentice and probably won't be able to work much reading in -- quality reading, that is, where I have to think! Besides that, TMON is described as a doorstopper. Now I know you can read all fifteen volumes of Lymond and Niccolo, in a matter of days or a couple of weeks, but I'm not that prodigious even when I have few distractions. So I'm figuring it will be January before I can give TMON my best effort -- is that all right with you? But don't wait for me. If you finish the book before then, by all means, please, start a thread without me -- I'll catch up with you!

I'm in Frieda.
Be warned - I will be taking notes as I read. The timing should work out just fine. And actually it was your post that put the book on my radar...I enjoy all of our book discussions and look forward to the next one.

btw, a French horn player? In a Christmas-season brass-quartet? Awesome, as my kids would say. You never cease to amaze me.

Frieda, my reaction to "Mockingbird" was, on the whole, positive. As for those who criticize, it's easy to be negative, but what a heavy task to write a biography without permission from its subject! Shields has done his research well and has an extensive index and bibliography. Of course, after Lee's death, revisionists will come along and try to write the definitive "biography...."

Mild spoilers: What surprised me? The extent of Lee's iconoclastic girlhood as a "Tomboy", which certainly lays to rest the myth of the "southern lady" and her oh-so-genteel upbringing. (love those fistfights!)

One of the most intriguing aspects revealed is Lee's symbiotic relationship with Capote: how he depended upon her notes for his book on the Clutter murders, how he never seemed to want to give her credit for "greasing the wheels" for him, and how he ultimately betrayed her. I can just picture the culture clash with the White Bread, mid-west small town life and the effete Easterner with squeaky falsetto and (to them) "foreign" mannerisms!I was surprised at how long-suffering Lee was in the friendship with Capote.

How much of the sucess of Lee's novel rode upon the coat-tails of the Civil Rights Movement in the South? Was it mostly luck and perfect timing on the part of the author? What of the subsidy that her friends gave her early on so that she could quit her boring job and devote her days to full time writing? (How many other would-be authors would wish for such serendipity?!)

I was gratified to trace the genesis of Scout in Lee herself, and of Atticus, from her own lawyer father, again not your stereotypical southerner. What did you think?

Mary, I, too, was generally pleased with Mockingbird. Why do you suppose the critics have been either lukewarm or noncommittal? Do you think it's because it is an unauthorized biography? Good grief, the dime-a-dozen bios of dead people get more attention. Perhaps because I love To Kill a Mockingbird so much, I have found every tidbit I've read about Lee fascinating and I always wanted more; but maybe not as many readers have been as taken with either TKAM or its author as I thought.

I think I was less surprised that Nelle was a tomboy. I always equated Scout and her creator in my mind. Plus I had southern girl cousins who never fitted in the stereotype of the "starched penitentiary" of southern girlhood. Such an upbringing existed for some, no doubt, but I've always figured it was less common than the popular notion of it.

An aside: I visited my Alabama kinfolk several summers, running from 1956 to 1966 (some summers they visited us in Iowa). About the only thing different I noticed between my female cousins and me -- besides our accents -- was they had to wear shoes outdoors (Iowa kids went barefoot), though I had to comply with the shoe-wearing, too, when I was in Alabama because of the hookworms and pinworms that people could pick up from the ground through the soles of their feet. I got in fistfights with my boy cousins right along with my brothers, but that was mainly when we were younger. Looking back, I am always amazed at how little real supervision we had: the grownups turned us out of the house as soon as we finished breakfast, and we didn't go back in except at lunch and supper time -- often we stayed outside at night, too. Perhaps because TKAM evokes such strong feelings of nostalgia in me, I am more enamored than I should be.

Mary, I think a lot of the success of TKAM had to do with the timing of the Civil Rights situation. Many non-southerners home in on the racial hypocrisy -- sometimes at the exclusion of almost everything else in the book -- and say, "Uh-huh, just what I thought," because it validates what they think they know about the South and southerners. I imagine Lee's story of small-town southern life wouldn't have impressed northerners in the book business without the racial aspect -- and thank goodness Lee's editor was canny enough to realize something was needed for a wider audience. Southerners would have found Lee's book interesting without the controversy of racial inequalities, but they would've read it, even enjoyed it, and then they would've relegated it to the parlor bookcase to sit along side the little-read and forgotten novels of Stribling and other southern writers of his kind. Stars Fell on Alabama, Tobacco Road, God's Little Acre, and of course Gone with the Wind, and maybe a couple of Faulkner's novels would have continued to be the most vociferously discussed southern books.

Yeah, that was something: Lee's friends giving her a Christmas present of a "year off to...

You guys talked me into it. The library had a copy of The Meaning of Night, and even though it was on the Bookmobile, the kind librarian at the desk braved the dark and cold this evening to jog across the parking lot to rescue it from the deep recesses of neglected Bookmobile books as it forlornly shivered there, wedged between a dog-eared copy of In Cold Blood and a grease-spattered Jenny Craig cookbook. Okay....I made up that last part.

I warn you, though: The holidays are upon us and my attention span is short, so if it doesn't grab me right away, back to the Bookmobile it shall go, no matter how much it pleads. Of course, if it it engrossing, I will read it and promptly forget everything except the major details so that I will be completely useless when the discussion rolls around. Maybe I should take notes like Janalyn.