JaG, I don't have any specific cites to support this, only a compendium of experience and info gathered from readings over the years :-) As a hobby gardener I would have assumed much the same theories as you, however my experience working with professional growers has lead me to conclude otherwise. Dormancy in plants can be delayed, sometimes eliminated or cut short early by the timing of fertilizer applications. Growers do it all the time to get plants to market ahead of season or even in the off season. Sometimes it involves other greenhouse conditions (manipulations of heat and light) but it also happens with other hardy plants in unheated, unlighted greenhouse conditions. It is also well documented that plant roots will continue to assimilate nutrients until the soil is too cold for them to do so. Dirk Muntean, a biology consultant for Soil and Plant Laboratory, Inc. in Bellevue, WA, explains it this way: "Those roots are taking up nutrients in the soil throughout the fall until the soil temperatures drop low enough to inhibit root function." And that doesn't happen until quite late into the winter season. That's why along with all the recommendations one sees for fall fertilizing, there is also the caution to utilize low nitrogen formulations - the emphasis is on root growth, not top growth. Even fall and winter blends of lawn fertilizers have lower nitrogen concentrations than do spring and summer blends. FWIW, dormancy in plants is relative.....in some cases, plants will continue to grow and photosynthesize throughout the winter months or what we think of as the dormant period - broadleaf evergreens, conifers, many groundcovers, cool season grasses (I've had to mow my lawn in midwinter!), any winter blooming plant, etc. The growth may not be nearly as apparent as it would be during the typical growing season but it is still taking place. Obviously, much of this will be highly dependent on the specific plant and the specific growing conditions, but in many areas fall is plenty warm enough and soil temps remain high enough to prolong the growing season or even encourage a rapid, nitrogen-infused flush of new growth that will be vulnerable when cold weather finally does set in. I wouldn't be overly concerned about this with most organic sources of nitrogen.....they are just too slow acting to have a significant impact - but alfalfa meal (and blood meal) are extremely fast acting as far as organics go and IMO, are better utilized in spring or during the primary growing season. Excess nitrogen applications - and alfalfa meal is pretty much all nitrogen - can also inhibit root growth, which is the entire purpose of fertilizing in fall

Welcome back Tigerdawn! Nice to see you posting again. Nice and healthy hoyas you have there. Its hard to stay away from this forum for long :o) Hi Brad, I have to say that I can see how some people can find a certain fragrance a "bit much". I've had to take my Lacunosa and my KP/KQ outside when I have several blooming at the same time. For me it can become very strong and overpowering. As a matter of fact I grow most of my larger hoyas outside most of the year due to space and the overpowering scent when they are all blooming at the same time. It can give me a headache,lol...

This month my Book Club read: 1,000 White Women-The Journals of May Dodd by Jim Fergus I thought it was wonderful! I'm usually not a big fan of historical fiction, but this was great! Based on a true event, and then the author writes about what could have happened. Back in the 1850's the Cheyanne Indians wanted to increase their tribe numbers, so they asked the US govt to "trade" 1,000 white women for 1,000 horses. The US govt said no, but in the book, they agree. Very interesting idea. Characters were outstanding!! Written in journal form and quick read. Some language & violence esp at the end, but it's not too bad. Next month we read: Whistling in the Dark We read Water for Elephants at the beginning of the year and I thought it was okay. Normally would have never read about the circus. Others seemed to like it more then me. Read Life of Pi, but it took me about 3-4 times to get through it! Has anyone read Middlesex? I want to know if it's worth reading. Ii don't mind the topic, but it seemed really hard to get into? I've got my list made of all the books you guys have recommended. Teresa-who once had a dream about being locked in a library all night. (Wouldn't be so bad!)

cjoseph, Mine are thriftshop finds. I have one slim volume, an abridgement edited by Isabel Ely Lord covering 1660-69, which got me hooked. Later found an old slipcased edition entitled Vol. !! covering 1665-69, transcribed by Henry B. Wheatley, unabridged, published 1942. I know there are undoubtedly later and better transcriptions out there...I've just enjoyed these. So no, I haven't read the entire diary (I wasn't sure to be honest until you asked)...but I think I'll look for Vol.1 now that it's so easy to buy old books on the net. In my post I was just thinking of books I can pick up after an interval of months or even years and immediately settle into as if I'd been reading the night before...Pepys fits in there...josh