the evergreen barberry Berberis 'William Penn' is not quite as tall as you may want, but it is tough and spiny enough to be a deterrent, as are many listed by Forest Farm, out West. They are on line and describe each sort they have. I found the hetzi type Ilex, or Holly is similar in general appearance. But a mixture of many sorts would be endlessly interesting. Many not evergreen. Like burning bush, Buddlea, Viburnum, Aronia, hawthorn and Rose of Sharon. Some Rose of Sharon and Buddlea will not produce seedlings are are worth seeking out.Evergreen Viburnum exist. Not evergreen, but almost faultless are the Knockout Roses. All will need protection from trespass until they become so big that they matter. And I would be held back by the cost.

do you have any idea.. how all the weird things get inserted into your post??? ... or dont you see them?? .. we are all sad at the loss for the hosta world ... ken Here is a link that might be useful: link

I'm Tricia & still around the NE Gardening forum though mostly reading. I was an active poster for several years. Health issues have dominated my life since July '09. I've also noticed the drop-off in forum posts/responses. I assumed the economy was having an affect along with Facebook. Gardening consumes discretionary income & many have tightened their belts these last 3-4 years. Another thing I've noticed since I've been down so much & watching way more TV than normal...HGTV has introduced new shows dealing with outside spaces. The shows all seem to feature elaborate hardscaping with "gardening" playing a very minimal role. Actually, plants frequently are marginalized to along the back fence line to provide privacy with the remaining space devoted to large, expensive, & elaborate outdoor kitchens, water features, decking/patios, seating, & even outdoor theaters (hilarious in New England, IMO). I also saw on CNBC just last week a segment that architects are reporting a full 80% of their business today revolving around outdoor spaces. People who are unable to sell their remodeled houses & yet still have the home improvement bug are moving to the outside to create more "rooms". Any connection to HGTV, maybe? Anyway, trends seem to be moving away even further from gardening with available outdoor space being devoted to creating more "rooms" to be used as an extension of indoor spaces. Plants are being presented on these shows as more of a liability than an asset. I've even wondered if our elaborate gardens would be a detriment should we ever wish to sell? Thankfully, that's not on our radar for the present. Nevertheless, I believe younger audiences' desires are being influenced by these shows. On a local note, I've noticed that the huge potted floral displays that used to be common along my part of coastal NE (Mystic) have all but disappeared. We are friends with owners of an upscale garden center in coastal RI. They've been in business at the same location for 20+ years & are struggling to keep the doors open. It's not quality, the husband is a true artist with plants. Home & Garden magazine recently finished shooting a feature article for publication next April at their garden center. So, something has changed within the population. Just my two cents. I'm one who hopes to keep this forum alive. It's difficult for me to type these days but I'll try to make more posts. I'm no longer able to physically garden but I'm outside giving moral support to DH & still in charge of design. I hope that's enough to still qualify me as a NE gardener? /tricia

@Buehl, @ulisdone: thanks for the great replies. For reference, the distance from the edge of the countertop to the island in the current 1989-built kitchen is 40" by the window and 40.5" where the rangetop will go (a downdraft cooktop is angled in the corner of the L, which is a huge waste of space). The aisle measurements in the photo are a bit out-of-date -- they're from the first posting. The software I'm using really doesn't want to measure countertop-to-countertop so I figured what it does do is standard and I just mentally subtract 1" of overhang on each side, not 1.5", which seems like a lot -- is that standard for quartz countertops? The current measurement (countertop to countertop) from sink to island is 44-3/4 and rangetop wall to island is 40-1/4, about the same as we have now and 2" less than ideal. Also, the rangetop sticks out a bit further I'd love to move the island further from the rangetop (window seat to island top is about 47") and the issue is with the flooring -- Amendoim (aka Brazilian Cherry) in a size and height that's no longer available and we have exactly one 22 sq ft box left. It runs perpendicular to the rangetop, so to move the island towards the bay window, we'd have to fill in with a bunch of short pieces. Maybe our contractor has some suggestions, or maybe moving it down towards the window exactly 3.25" and filling in with a board the long way under the toe kick would be ok. We are kind of assuming they can remove the existing cabinetry without wrecking the floor, otherwise it'll be something else to deal with. And we love this floor. The seat on the window side of the island is for my wife. She would like to sit in the kitchen and be able to see the TV without straining her neck, so we asked the original designer for a solution to provide 1 or 2 seats on the window/sink side of the island. At this point, it's just the two of us (kids grown and moved out) so the design factors are both our comfort along with future-proofing or we'd only need 2 seats. We do expect to be here for at least another 10 years. We also keep going back and forth with trading the location of the refrigerator and ovens: I agree that the refrigerator is more practical on the non-window wall as far as opening and usability goes, but it makes the line of the upper cabinets look odd. This is from the original posting but I'll repeat it here: That supporting wall to the right of the fridge sticks out 2" into the room, so the refrigerator has to be moved to the left to allow for 110 degree opening. I stuck a 6" pantry pullout there but our contractor/cabinet maker will have to tell us if that's practical. or if we move the fridge to the right and leave just the 2" of clearance and expand the drawers or move the rangetop and upper cabinet down a bit. I figured considering a pullout here would be wide enough for cans and peanut butter. It's the cabinet over the fridge that just looks a bit odd. For reference, here is the other wall: This version of the island has seating for 4 which is enough,but doesn't have the big, deep 36x36 island drawers on the sink side, which are 24x34 here. Is this a better layout overall? Here is a west view. This has the island centered on the bay window, which is where the current island is as well. I moved the island to the left in this view to increase the space when the refrigerator was on the sink wall so it was no longer centered and that looked ok (the flooring strips can be inserted on that side). There will be a toe kick and paneling on this side of the island as well but I can't get the program to draw that. Regarding the appliance sizes, The difference in the appliance prices between, say a 36" and 48" rangetop or a 42" vs 48" fridge is nominal and they've been ordered (2 month lead time). I am curious about your comment about the hood -- this is what the original kitchen designer specified and we all agreed this was more elegant and spacious than the blockier commercial-looking range hood that takes up the entire space. I'm curious about what you'd recommend instead. Something with glass? Or a cabinet running across the top? We also aren't wedded to the door styles, so I'll try a rendering with slab cabinet doors. The cabinets are going to all be custom (a benefit of using a local cabinet shop), so we can do pretty much whatever works. We meet with the general contractor/cabinet maker in 10 days or so to finalize the plans and actual measurements, and I'm sure he will have some suggestions as well. Thanks for the measurements -- I've printed those and will use them to see what works.