Hey kaysbelle, Usually my water lilies are in pots at about a 2.5' depth while they are actively growing. When winter begins to set in, I move them to the 3.5' depth in a pond. I've noticed some plants overwinter better when moved to lower depths. I also move my lotus to lower depths. Water Hyacinth is allegedly being voluntarily restricted because of problems with people taking their excess and dumping it in natural bodies of waters such as streams and lakes so you will probably find it increasingly more difficult to purchase if not illegal to purchase here in the very near future. Best to take in what you feel you need as starts for next year. It seems to overwinter fine for many but there are those who claim they move it and it's dead. I'd experiment with two clumps in two different areas of your home to see what is going to work well for you. About a week before you intend to bring them in, try floating them in a mild solution of Miracle Grow or similar product. Overnight should be fine. From there try one clump in a small washtub in front of a south facing window and maybe another clump in a less desirable location with fluorescent lights hung over the top of them. Get the lights in close to the plants. Maybe one of those overwintering methods might work for you? I've never overwintered Water Hyacinth but I've used those methods along with placing other tender aquatics in kiddie pools in my basement under metal halides and they made it. Can't try to help with your question about Hornwort because I don't know which one you have but as a rule of thumb fast growing plants such as what you described in small ponds are generally not a good idea in the long run. They can be nutrient hogs. Plants that double their mass in short periods of time often use up nutrients that other plants need to survive and thrive. The Anacharis you have is probably Brazilian Waterweed. I'd be very concerned about that particular plant but if you'd like to check it out on your own to determine what you think about having it in your pond, use the Latin name ( Egeria densa ) plus the word invasive in any search engine and you'll come up with tons of hits but here's a decent site where if you scroll down you can click on anything that might be of interest to you- http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/aquatics/brazwaterwd.shtml Anacharis can easily overwinter outside in our zone. Problem with it is that it is extremely difficult to control even when it grows in what we believe to be self-contained environments such as a small backyard ponds. Anacharis, like Hydrilla verticillata, can be spread to other bodies of water by birds. http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/PDFpubs/2524.pdf These are the states in which this plant has escaped cultivation- http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=EGDE Got any frogs kaysbelle ;) Frogs are our friends. Just teasing, I know some people don't like them. Hey Zinnia, I have 3 small herp ponds now supporting 5 different species of frogs and toads. I cheated though. Had a few biologists and herpetologists dumping over here. They were scooping up eggs and tads from vernal ponds that they believed were going to dry up prematurely and relocating over here while I was at work. I finally put up signs that instructed them what went in which pond. Basically; toads to the left, frogs to the right, and straight ahead with any bull frogs they might have picked up from other bodies of water. Ended up getting some interesting dragonflies and damselflies too. Species I've not seen over here so they must have come as and added bonus with the herps. It's kinda neat here at night with those dim photo cell walkway lights around the ponds. Those attract the moths and such and the toads just hang out waiting for their meal to come to them. If you don't have one of those cheap KMart type walkway lights, you really need to think about getting one. Just one of those can bring in prey for our little green friends. Time for me to leave to go wetlands exploring.

One comment on manure from farm animals. Recent research suggests that kids that grow up around farm animals are much less likely to develop allergies than other kids. The theory is that the constant exposure to relatively harmless bacteria causes the immune system to focus on infective substances rather than on harmless materials such as molds and pollens, etc. I know of no studies that show that exposure to animals and manures (certainly plenty fresh on the farm) causes an increase in the infection rate of children (or adults). If you have worked on a farm, you know that you don't wear gloves all the time to protect yourself from the bacteria. It is to protect the hands from injuries. Agreed that exposure to e coli and other organisms that one has not developed a resistance to or a tolerance of can produce significant disease in an individual whose immune system has not be "hyped" up by continuous exposure to bacteria and other organisms. It is also highly likely that that individual has allergy problems. In the military (the same things happens when one travels), people coming for training from other countries tend to pick up significant GI problems from exposure to the local e coli and other bacteria. If you go to their country for long, you will probably experience the same thing. Again, in general, to contact an infective agent, usually a certain "load" is required to cause infection unless a person is severely immunocompromised. An example is typhoid where a healthy individual will need to consume in excess of 4000 typhoid bacteria at one time to contact the disease. Washing lettuce will reduce but not remove all bacteria. But it is not usually necessary (or possible) to remove all the bacteria (unless you cook it to 160 degrees for 20 minutes or boil it, etc). Our bodies have over many thousands of years developed amazing ability to tolerate our environment. It is reasonable to disagree on this. I'll have to admit I have eaten all kinds of things out in the garden (usually wiping off the obvious dirt first), and have not noticed and ill effect. But then my body has undoubtedly has developed a level of immunity to the organism in my garden. A level of respect for the danger of eating possibly contaminate food materials is certainly warranted. For me, fish pond water would not concern if it had been applied early in the production of the crops. Just an opinion.

Waterbug guy, First I will talk a little bit about concrete in water. You say it is a myth that concrete in water can kill fish and raise the PH. When concrete first sets up the surface PH is 12.0. Which is the same PH as a drain cleaner called "draino". As it is exposed to the CO2 in the air the PH goes down. But water is a very good leaching agent and so water will continue to try and get the chemicals out of the concrete. So will the PH in the water be raised? If the water has normal PH of 6.5 to 8.5 the answer is yes. The real question should be "how much will it raise it"? That question isn't easily answered as there are a lot of variables. Just to list some the age of the concrete, the condition of the concrete, is the water flowing over the concrete, the natural PH of the water, is the water being changed, and the volume of the water versus the contact area of the concrete. In some cases the rise might be so low as to make it very difficult to measure. But in other cases it can and does raise the PH to 9 to 9.5. At these levels it can and does kill fish. If I remember correctly you have stated that you are a pond contractor. If you are I hope you having started using roofing liner in the ponds that you build. Most of the time a person on this forum is never going to have a problem with roofing liner. Can there be a problem with roofing liner? This should be the question. The answer is yes. The chances that there could be a problem is very low. The largest pond product manufacturer in the US sent out a letter to all their customers a number of years ago. This letter said that all their liner in the future would be tested to be fish safe as they got a batch in that was not. In other words they were selling roofing liner as pond liner. This company had been selling a lot of liner for 10 years before this problem. If it had happen today with the wide use of the internet I would have think that some lawyer would have gotten this information and started a class action lawsuit against them and they would be out of business. The lawyer could easily have sued them not only for the cost of the liner that they had sold but for the cost to replace all those liners in the ponds built with them going back to the first time they sold this liner. The largest liner manufacturer in this country has told me that almost never would you ever have a problem with roofing liner but you might. I think that as a contractor you can't take that chance. If you were unlucky and did have a problem and were sued over that problem the lawyer handling the case would find out that they would sue for every customer that you have that has this liner. In other words you would be out of business. So is roofing liner toxic? No most of the time. But there is a small chance that there maybe a problem. I have only talked about 2 of the 8 things that you listed. I could easily talk about many of the other things listed but my point is this. You listed these things as black and white but they are not black and white. The only thing that is black and white about ponds is that all aquatic life will die. Mike

Hi scottspond, some how didn't think she would, Florida vs Manchester, no contest really ;-) The area I live in is New Mills, in High Peak in Derbyhsire. If it doesn't ring a bell, it's just past Lyme park, Buxton is about 2 miles away, Stockport 9 miles and Manchester 20 miles (all via road) Handily the railway station is about 5 mins away from my home, so trips to Manchester are pleasent through the countyside and don't require I use the car ;-) And in summer I get to hop on the odd steam trian, every boys dream. My Mancunian mates reckon I've gone "all posh" living here, as I was born and grew up in Fallowfield and went to school in Rusholme. Regards ChrisC.