Ill response to some of the comments, as this thread has taken a bit of a wayward journey; (Sorry, Tony Ill try to eventually guide this a little closer to the original intent.) I relish that there are some who disagree with my approach. It is refreshing not to have this subject matter slide into the all too frequent, vapid drivel of the "Me too" threads. I believe that we can safely abide by the historical fact that gardens of several centuries ago placed little to no importance on colorful flowers. I recently read Gardens of Illusion (recommended by someone on this forum) written by Sara Maitland and Peter Matthews. They briefly outline the history of gardens and gardening while attempting to place them into context, juxtaposed against our modern notions. They even make note of the copious writings of Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1626), lavishly describing wonderful gardens. Some of his dissertations were quite lengthy, describing in exquisite detail, his favorite gardens from across Europe. Special note was made in Gardens of Illusion that rarely was a single flower mentioned in Bacons writings a clear inference that flowers were not a mainstay in gardens of the time. That was then and this is now. Todays gardens of the western world are flush with a profusion of blooming color. However, it seems to me that in our frantic endeavor to pack in evermore flower color, as a society, we have largely abandoned practices of good design. Would I choose to return to gardens of old? I think it is clear in the photos I posted that color is important to me. However, I feel it is even more important not to abandon good design that has stood the test of time in our rush to grab a color wheel. I chose to post those photos specifically because they represent the newest trend in gardening rain gardens. (And because Jigsawearth provided a great segue I couldnt pass up.) How does this cutting-edge garden compare to those of old? On the surface, it certainly contains more color! Admittedly, it is difficult to derive an accurate analysis deduced from only an image; which reveals almost no context. The first photo is not a front yard but rather the side yard of a corner lot. Perhaps inclusion of a partial view of the garage and driveway subconsciously leads our modern minds to believe that this is the front of the house. I intentionally purchased a corner lot so that the driveway would NOT be located next to the front door proclaiming, "Welcome to my err ah garage!" In spite of an elegant front entrance with landscaping designed to create a welcoming look, it is amazing how many guests will slowly and admiringly drive past my front entrance LOOKING for the driveway so that they can enter my home. After they sit parked in the driveway for a while, they finally realize there is no pedestrian entrance on that side of the house. Eventually, they drive back around to the front. (I dont think Sir Francis Bacon had that problem.) The first rain garden is comprised entirely of native plants with the exception of the bordering Purple Wave petunias, chosen specifically to cultivate a comforting social familiarity. It is interesting that Jigsawearth muses about "the idea that this type of design that is ecologically based could be meshed with the type of design that is more cultural" I agree with your lament. In fact, these "missing elements" were also a concern of mine when initially designing this project. Unseen in this photo, an entirely different look resides on the back side. A six foot wide bluegrass path lies between this area and a small shade garden nestled close to the north side of the house. The unseen back side of the rain garden also features orderly, monoculture drifts of short prairie grasses bordering the path in a grid work. This rain garden features native plants indigenous to the Midwestern prairie in a continual progression of growth, blooms, wildlife and visual interest from early spring until snow blankets the ground. The look is different every week. However, as a whole, I think this is rarely the case. Quite frankly, the current state of rain garden design is typically abysmal. (I sensed you were saying this between the lines, Jigsawearth.) The typically offered "design plans" should more truthfully be called engineering plans design is totally absent. The engineering technicalities and plant section is scientifically solid. However, the horticultural advice is coming from people with a scholastic botany background in the open prairies where diversity is essential. From a visual perspective, society translates diversity in an urban setting to: that damn weed patch. The speech goes like this: "Native plants are beautiful. Randomly scatter the plants around to get maximum diversity. The plants will fight it out and nature will choose the plants best suited for the site. See what survives. And, oh yeah Native plants are beautiful They really are... Trust me They really are." This is NOT design and it shows! One of my friends has called this nonsense: making a "WASP". (Wild And Scary Prairie) The second rain garden was an experiment to address a number of design deficiencies that I am continue to be concerned about. Essentially, I was going for no maintenance. I constructed it to be functional and yet attractive for someone who either did not or could not garden. All of the stone is native to this area. This garden is at the corner of my front yard where my property abuts my neighbors lot. A small, grass swale acts as the dividing line of our properties. It conveys most of the rain water coming off of his house gutters and a small amount from my lot in a very heavy rain. This runoff used to empty into a storm drain in the street. It now is captured in this garden; entering from the before-mentioned swale on the left corner. I also dump some of the water (about 500 gallons per inch of rain) off a small roof area of my house into this rain garden via underground pipes. Placement of each of these gardens was done after I decided how I was going to move about the property. Paths (unseen in photos) guide visitors around the property allowing the features of each area to independently reveal themselves. I decided upon the placement and technical details long before selecting any plants. However, I did know from the onset that these would be native plants. Let me also state that this is a young property three years old. This is only a one man show. I work a full-time job and take care of several rental properties. I use color wheels to light bonfires and eventually plant a few flowers. I wish I could give Sir Francis Bacon a tour and discuss intellectual issues in a setting he would hopefully find conducive to that pursuit. IronBelly

WinterCat, Thanks for the poem! I've never run across that one before, and it's beautiful as well as botanical. I'm moderately interested in the history of rose hybridization, and plant discovery and development in general, but the lives of the people who happened to get roses named after them as a rule leave me cold. I've never cared for celebrity gossip. And, perhaps because of a minimalist element in my aesthetic composition, I don't collect plant-themed objects, or anything else, except for the plants themselves, and books. But my goal, or dream, is a very large, very complex garden filled with a tremendous variety of plants all in the place that's right for them. Much as I love both literature and gardening, I don't find a great deal of connection between them. Maybe it's like, oh, kittens: they're absolutely delightful in real life, but perhaps too charming to make good subjects for artistic interpretation. For years I've had a vague idea in the back of my mind of a garden poem, long, full, complex, rich, beautiful, like the garden of my dreams. I'm not going to write the poem, as I'm not a poet, and I haven't found that anyone else has written it, though I don't read much poetry, either. I don't believe that Dickens, that pre-eminently urban author, is commonly regarded as a notable writer of landscape description, but have recently become conscious of his sensitivity to the beauty of the countryside and his ability to describe it. From Nicholas Nickleby: [after a night of drinking and riot, ending in a quarrel] "They...emerged upon the open road,... Fields, trees, gardens, hedges, everything looked very beautiful; the young man scarcely seemed to have noticed them before, though he had passed the same objects a thousand times. There was a peace and serenity upon them all strangely at variance with the bewilderment and confusion of his own half-sobered thoughts, and yet impressive and welcome." And from Bleak House: [on a trip to visit a friend in the country] "It was delightful weather. The green corn waved so beautifully, the larks sang so joyfully, the hedges were so full of wild flowers, the trees were so thickly out in leaf, the bean-fields, with a light wind blowing over them, filled the air with such a delicious fragrance! [and the friend's garden] But indeed, everything about the place wore an aspect of maturity and abundance. The old lime-tree walk was like green cloisters, the very shadows of the cherry-trees and apple-trees were heavy with fruit, the gooseberry-bushes were so laden that their branches arched and rested on the earth, the strawberries and raspberries grew in like profusion, and the peaches basked by the hundred on the wall. Tumbled about among the spread nets and the glass frames sparkling and winking in the sun, there were such heaps of drooping pods, and marrows, and cucumbers, that every foot of ground appeared a vegetable treasury, while the smell of sweet herbs and all kinds of wholesome growth (to say nothing of the neighboring meadows where the hay was carrying) made the whole air a great nosegay." Melissa, with the help of Charles Dickens

Good afternoon, Morden Man, What a beautiful article on Well Being! I came across it while searching for good rose choices for an anniversary gift for my daughter and her husband, who live in Nantes, France. They live in an apartment on the third floor of a five-story building, with a front balcony facing NW, a little more N than W, and a smaller rear balcony facing SE, a little more S. The fact that this beautiful rose won the scent competition in Nantes gives it extra appeal, too. I wonder how it does grown in containers? Thanks, Patti

First of all remove the fruit so as not to injure the tree. Both of these trees prefer to be in bush form. that way the leaves protect the trunk from getting sunburned. This can be fatal. You got the best food and the bes soil media choice. Paint the bucket white so that the soil does not heat up and cook the roots. .I have mine in bigger pots but there are those that think I am wrong. Your trees are much larger with your pot the same size as mine. Wait to see what other say. I can't help you on the rust problem. I would not do any pruning at all untill the trees are bigger but you should wait to see what other say. My containers not only have drain hole in the bottom but have aeration holes up the side. See pic larger bucket with 1/8 inch air holes houses the meiwa tree seen in link below Here is a link that might be useful: https://plus.google.com/photos/111099372377958308731/albums/profile?banner=pwa