We decided to divert our grey water from the laundry to a big plastic tub, with thoughts of watering our small lawned area. What a surprise it was to see just how much water goes down the drain, just from the washing machine.
We started using this grey water on the natives (correa's & grevillea's) two weeks ago after first skimming off the soap suds. All I can say about using it is that maybe try not applying the water over the foliage, other than that I can't see a problem.

If my plants are showing and signs of stress from the water in the next few weeks, I'll let you know.

I heard Kevin Handrek Soils scientist with CSIRO) speak on this issue earlier this month. He says that salts, particularly sodium salts, especially from laundry detergents, are the problem. There is the need to ensure that you are using detergents with low sodium content and the problems of salinity will be minimised. The link below gives more info, especially page 32.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lanfax Labs

g'day schaf,

maybe you could start making your own detergent or using better alternatives?

we have a recipe available on our site on the remedies page that we use and our grey water all goes fresh to mainly gardens at present, i have some links either on the remedies page or the building a garden page that may be of help?

if the plants are indemic type natives and well established they should cope with just rain fall? but if you run your water up hill of the plants and make it so the water filters down through the soil then i can't see a lot of problems if used sparingly.

also heavily mulch the plants to keep moisture in and provide cool root runs.

we've used grey water for a decade at least now and no one ahs been able to show us where we are getting it wrong our plants always look healthy, just use a good dose of common sense.

there are alternative washing detergents around ie.,. there is a northern australia soap bush, and if you can control it soap wort, and another exotic called the soapnut tree a poewdered version is available online from a supplier in victoria, all these have no chemicals in them, are truely bio-degradable and no salts.

len

Here is a link that might be useful: lens garden page

But are these alternatives any better? My understanding of soap is that it consists of an ionic salt of a large 'hydrophobic' chemical and a highly soluble metal such as sodium or potassium. I don't know that a bush soap will be any different?

Making soaps with potassium rather than sodium might be a good start (as potassium is a useful plant fertilizer).

Just as a follow up to what's already been written in the above messages, is to do a Google search on Grey Water. Some Councils plus numerous other agencies have info on the use of Grey Water on gardens on different web pages. All state that you never use kitchen water as grey water. As stated by Mallee, Len & Nathan, watering of plants can be harmful if incorrect washing powders are used, so take a look. Planet Ark is one that has a web page.

I think I'll just use my grey water on the lawn from now on - just to be safe.

Here is a link that might be useful: Planet Ark

our vegetable have always done well with grey water, dishwater (can't realy understand the dilemna about dish water? it is usualy got some food particles in it a little fat and we use a mild detergent and the worms love the stuff) as well and wee water collected in a bucket. our current vege patch is producing very well as usual, it only ever gets fesh water when it rains. we have done this for around a decade now and with no obvious detremental effects.

len

Here is a link that might be useful: lens garden page

The issue does seem to be the increased salinity in the soil. Usually in areas where water salinity is a problem, the reccomendation is for deep watering when water is applied. This may well be what is happening in Len's situation and also Justcorreas', when they use their grey water. As a result they are not experiencing problems in growth.

I've renegged - Today, I watched the water as it was pumped from the washing machine into my collection tub. It would seem the problem water would be that in the "wash cycle" with the soap mainly staying in this first pumping. With the "rinse cycle" the water was quite clear with minimal soap showing on the surface. If I divert the first lot of water to one tub and the rinse water to another, I think the rinse water should be O.K to use on the garden if I apply the water to the soil and not the foliage.

I'll be using this cleaner "free" water on my plants as there is just so much wastage, it would really surprise you. Plus, we'll try the Planet Ark Laundry Powder as well.

a bit of a waste putting it on a lawn when it grows such good vege's but?

in these g/water discussions ther seems to be thinking that is getting the rising salt situation which is caused by bad agricultural practises with a small amount of salt in a known washing product ie.,. the homemade version.

the way i picture it even if you ran the water to 1 spot for the 6 month period give or take that the solution lasts that is 1 cup of salt on that spot, to me that hardly equates to rising salt affected land problems. and from different posts on different threads it appears that washing soda is different to pure salt?? dunno, but there is nothing but what appears to be speculation. and controlled condition experiments don't hold much sway with me because what they suggest might happen hasn't yet happens in my applications, so obviously when they do an experiment they are doing it to get a predetermined result, sorry just how i see it.

but in these times of coserving a very valuable resource if people want to waste a good product on those speculations that is there choice.

len

Dishwasher water is very alkaline, consisting of mostly caustic sodas. Dish detergent on the other hand is your standard SLS, AFAIK. I think the big issue with using kitchen water is the higher chance of disease and vermin. I'm also not sure how well food fats breakdown in the soil.

We bought a $18 PVC junction tap that allows us to switch between sewer and our fruit trees. We dug a trench and put ag pipe in it, and we put our shower and bath water on that. All other greywater goes to the sewer because I'm concerned about salt build up. The overflow from our rainwater tank (harhar) goes into the same system, the idea being that it will help dilute salts.

brisbane extra on channel 9 last night did a very good topic on grey water use they mostly dealt with recycling the washing machine, but like we do the gardening guru type they had for the program keeps all his vege' garden going with it, and one of the hardware wharehouses did a segment promoting the hose they sell to connect to the washing machine.

so maybe the challenge is out there make your own detergent, wash your dishes by hand everything i've ever seen indicates the worms and all their soil buddies deal with bits of fats/oil and food scraps wonderfully.

as for vermin (if you mulch heavily to conserve moisture you will get them anyway)if you are using your kitchen scraps in your gardens (good soil food) you likely to get mice so you run some bait stations just like controlling any other garden pest. whether kitchen scraps come dry or mixed in water i don't see that it bothers the worms or soil bacteria in anyway just so long as it keeps coming.

still think there is going to have to be a lot of bullet biting if gardeners want their gardens to survive through this drought.

the best way to keep the lawn green without watering, not that i want to promote this resource wastefull folly:

1.. set the moswer up to cut nearly as high as the maximum height.

2.. leave the clip on the ground

3.. don't mow unless good rain is imminent (if you mow in dry times you will notice your lawn goes dry almost instantly that is due to moisture loss poromote by mowing)

4.. turn your lawns into vege' gardens to feed your family.

len

I worry about the long term damage to the soil from using washing machine water. I understand even normal irrigation using groundwater, as practiced by farmers is not sustainable since soil salinity eventually increases to a point where agricultural plants may no longer thrive, but this also depends on the type of soil and we may end up with more salt-tolerant plants (or dead salt pans all over the country).

But I think using the washing machine rinse water on gardens should be OK in the medium term and if used sparingly. I am using buckets from my rainwater tank on small plants and don't bother watering the larger ones anymore. If they die I won't be planting that species again.

I think it is more appropriate and healthier to send the wash water down the sewer for the council to treat it and recycle it as town water for use inside the house. I have no problem drinking properly treated recycled water (Reverse Osmosis removes everything beyond a very few small organic molecules, contrary to the massive scare campaign lies used by the "No" case in the recent Toowoomba referendum, and makes it infinitely cleaner than the normal town water we drink now). Toowoomba has just elected to the council one of the chief architects of the no campaign in a by-election. His name is "Snow" Manners, but I prefer to call him "NO" Manners.

Cheers,
Frank

g'day frank,

we need to keep a definition between rising salt and land degredation caused by agricultural practises and the small amount of salt that may be in some detergents and the results of that when spread over your garden area over a period of time.

the homemade (recipe on our site)laundry detergent we use has 1 cup of washing soda in a 20 litre mix, that does us a lot of months so i am trying to picture how if i could do it evenly sprinkle that 1 cup of wash soda 1 grain at a time all around my garden and come up with a negative result? it's all about perspective. and in off the shelf product as far as i know they don't say what salt is in their products.

the pictures and results of our plants just don't support there is any problem.

and that recycled water you talk of is actually going to be coming in most of our drinking water sooner than later, so if you don't want others drinking it don't put it down the sewer. saw a news item from down melbourne way the other night a councilor at the treatment plant with this glass of apparently crystal clear, odourless & tasteless treated water, that he put to his lips bit never realy drank any, the picture speaks a thousand words, he's not going to drink it but he expects his constituants in melbourne to drink it.

brisbane extra on ch9 toward the end of last week had a segment on using the washing machine water, but they went the extra yard and actually showed people how to use it, you could put that in the positive education section.

len

Salts used in laundry detergents are mostly sodium chloride, or sometimes ammonium chloride. I can't see how you could possibly make a homemade detergent which specifically targets soil commonly found on fabric. The best you could do is soap, which is much inferior.

No dont put this on your grevilleas. They are very sensitive to any sort of nutrient. They have more of a chance if you collect rainwater and use it on them just to keep the rootball barely moist for the first few months until they are established(ie the roots have moved out of the rootball and into the surrounding soil) Mulch them well (keep clear of the trunk). I dont know if you are on red soil but if you are quarter of a bucket once a week should be enough. The grey water will kill them. If they are exposed to strong winds erect some sort of windbreak to stop them drying out until established. I have planted Eucalyptus and given them one bucket of water then piled slashed grass up around them to stop wind and sun drying the soil and plant and never watered them again and have not lost any and that is on a steep slope in poor soil.

I've developed a new kitchen habit - the "slops" jug kept beside the sink. The problem with kitchen greywater seems to be the detergents and the fats, so any water containing neither goes into this. It's interesting much washing-up can really be done with detergent-free water and a good scrub. Detergent is only needed for foods containing fats and oils. A small vege garden plus lots of my precious native plants in pots are easily kept watered a bit at a time with this jug, as they're not far from the kitchen door.
The ethics of "water down the drain" vary according to where the water goes. Those of us lucky enough to have septic systems appreciate that it goes back into our own patch. Water that ends up in the inland river systems must only add to the national good (though it's interesting that the Toowoomba citizens who voted "no" don't seem to mind that their wastewater is used by other Australians all the way to Adelaide for drinking water, with no better treatment than systems which are decidedly of lesser quality than the one they so firmly rejected).
Where wastewater is pumped out to sea, there is certainly an urgency about recycling, whether it is by use of greywater by individuals, or by government-built systems which recycle it back into the taps of the citizens. To capture freshwater high in the catchment thereby removing it from the river systems, and to send it more or less straight out to sea with none but the human race having got any benefit from it is not fair on all those other organisms, is it?
The form our water restrictions take is pretty idiotic, too. Gardening is the only activity where humans use water to benefit the ecology and slow down the transfer of water from upper catchment to the sea.There should be more of it, not less, in a drought.
A more ecologically aware (and perhaps more democratic) system of would restrict the amount of water to households on a litres per person basis,and let us decide for ourselves how to use those precious litres. We might prefer to bath less and water our gardens more! At present we allow members of our government to impose their own personal opinions as to which kinds of domestic water use are more wasteful than others. So we can legally fill our spa baths as often as we like.
Trish

Yeah, that catalyst episode was quite well done. I particularly liked the experiment to measure the effective removal rate of various drugs. My personal response even before that was that growth hormones are almost certainly in the water from upland cattle farming...

I think the problem with gardening is that most people use far more water than they need, with much going into water tables (potentially causing townsite salinity) and much evaporating at point of use.

Here is a link that might be useful: catalyst transcript

The debate of grey water in soils is a long running one. Because the use of grey water is relatively recent, it is going to be a few years before the detrimental results start to show up. For some it may be sooner, depending on what sort of detergent you are using.

Any detergent or soap watered into soils, that has significant amounts of sodium (salt) is eventually going to do big damage to your soil structure. Just look along the Murray River basin. It takes a while for the salt to accumulate to such a level that it does serious harm but once it reaches those levels it is a big job to correct it. But if anyone persists in regularly applying grey water with significant amounts of sodium it is going to come back to bite them.

Washing soda is Sodium Carbonate, and it will most certainly do damage. The only way is too use low sodium detergents which are freely available.

Also many detergents have large amounts of phosphorous which is a big no no for native gardens. Okay it may be fine for a few applications but eventually it will build up and harm most native Proteaceae.

For the life of me I cannot understand the line that ordinary detergents are fine when with a bit of thought and consideration, using low sodium and low phosphorous soaps and detergents is just considerate gardening practice.

Grey water will kill grevilleas. I know this because I did it, and this was using a phosphate-free laundry detergent.

Grey water/gardens. Diff plants have diff nutrient reqs (Check with the CSIRO) so there are no absolutes. As to salts, what sort? get a chem degree before anyone jumps to conclusions. where from? there are salts in many rock formations/clays/subsoils through which ground water passes before you get it, this will vary enormously throughout the year with water catchment areas, previous rainfalls and irrigation practices, so there are no absolutes.
Also, how far from the sea are you? Ag depts in all states will prob supply salt charts telling you how much you get from rainfall/wind, this too, will vary depending upon meteorology, land forms and vegetation (you'd be surprised, wind borne salt can travel 100's kms).
And thats just the salts, there are a variety of other things that affect plant growth/health, (so check what your uphill neighbours are doing as well) including evaporation rates which will change the ratio of chem to water. As to R/O water recycling, its main downfalls are the expense (not cheap) and its efficiency -it removes just about everything including the trace elements that all living things require, as to hormones -when last did anyone do a chem analysis on just about every supermarket product ? if you're worried go eat macrobiotic from a registered organic grower in South Island NZ.
Grey water ? this too varies enormously e.g. long haired people use more water and shampoo than others, individual skin oils vary, even on the same individual depending on what you eat, there are no absolutes. Mulch and compost ? the more the merrier, this varies as do the the organisms that live in it and dont forget that micro organisms change the chem of the soil (thats their job).
Experiment, its about the only way. I dilute my grey water with rainwater if its going near banksias, grevilleas (under 5-7 yrs old); callistemons seem more tolerant and hakeas appear OK, BUT this is with my soil, in my location, with my habits, with my neighbours. Good Luck

I have been using grey water on my veggies and also on my natives.
I have never had any problems with any of them.
Its has been over 5 years now. the garden is lush and green.

I have not fussed about the soaps I use , usually the generic ones.
mind you all my scaps coffee grounds , you name it also gets thrown out into the garden beds as well

Gardenlen,

I made up my first batch of laundry detergent as per the instructions on your site a couple of months ago and more than happy with the results. As well as cleaning the clothes and helping the environment I am saving money as well.

Marshall

great stuff hey marshall?

we use at as hand wash and general purpose cleaner as well and with stubborn stains on clothes rub a little in prior to putting in the machine.

len

Here is a link that might be useful: len's garden page