Forty-two.

Darn! I saw the title of the thread and immediately came on to post that! ("don't talk to me about life. Me with the brain the size of a planet..." Marvin the Paranoid Android)

rme - can you explain more what you are looking for? Many books I read are about the meaning of life, someones life anyway, if not in a general sense. When we read, we keep changing and expanding our own ideas about that meaning - in a personal way, and in a more global way. I can't think of any one novel that just looks at this theme.
What books are the publishers currently marketing that are examples of what you mean?

Well, I know what life means to me - its an opportunity to be a catalyst for change to make it better for others while we are still alive.

Cindy

42? I personally like pi but that doesn't really make a lot of sense, does it? ;-)

The meaning of life? It's really whatever you want it to be. I look at life as being, in essence, meaningless -- I don't think there's an absolute meaning of life that will work for everyone. So, I think we each look for that meaning in our own different ways and, as such, we end up (hopefully) finding different meanings. In a way, it's as if life is a search for meaning -- it's almost self-referential. We go through life searching for a meaning for it.

I think we need to find that meaning (or maybe the meaning could be the search itself) to keep us going. We wake up, we work, we go home, we live. But why? And that's where the meaning comes in -- the meaning gives us the push, the incentive to continue. So, what is that meaning? Beats me -- we need to find it for ourselves. For me, meaning is being myself and trying to be helpful when I can without injuring myself or others in the process. Oh, and having a bit of fun while doing it is good as well. (Finding very good hot and sour soup is a side issue as well .......)

In terms of books, I've never really read a book that was about the meaning of life. That being said, the one book that seemed to focus my thoughts on the subject was Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Trite and old but the book was there when I needed it.

dyno, one of my favorite reads in college (and beyond for that matter) was Douglas Adams 'trilogy' The Hitchiker's Guide to the Universe. In one part, a huge computer is asked for the meaning of life, the universe and everything. After centuries of calculations, the computer is ready to reveal its answer. Its 42. But what is the question? That will have to be answered by a much greater computer.

Great series, btw.

Cindy --

I've actually read Adams' "trilogy" of five (I think it was five at last count) a few times. I was just trying an alternative to 42. Y'know, something weird and transcendental ...... like pi! ;-) Besides, if it's pecan, then I'm SOOOOO there! ;-)

I hope this isn't too obtuse - In my mind I replace the word 'Tennessee' with an image of our world - our HUMAN world - and for me this is the meaning of life (whatever Wallacs Stevens might have meant)

I placed a jar in Tennessee,
And round it was, upon a hill.
It made the slovenly wilderness
Surround that hill.

The wilderness rose up to it,
And sprawled around, no longer wild.
The jar was round upon the ground
And tall and of a port in air.

It took dominion everywhere.
The jar was gray and bare.
It did not give of bird or bush,
Like nothing else in Tennessee.

This is probably far from what you want or expect but, you asked my opinion.
My favorite book is an old one! The Bible or Holy Scriptures. It's nearly 2000 years old, though it wasn't complete 2000 years ago. It has the same meaning and content, though syntax and language has changed, and the theme has never changed! Self help books change constantly with their advice and meaning they claim to understand and explain and my book never does. Its reliable, loyal and has definitely stood the test of time.
In it, Jesus said in what many call the Beattitudes, 'Happy is the one conscious of their spiritual need.' If he says we have to be conscious of it, to be happy, then that would mean some who claim to have no faith, are perhaps deadened, in a sense, to it because life doesn't teach us to believe in a Creator or that he is interested in us and cares about us and that we CAN be happier knowing him.
The purpose that makes us happier? Everyone today seems determined to find the fountain of youth. No one wants to die, right? Not speaking of the ones perhaps soooo ill, or abused or depressed, those ones have special needs. Common everyday people want to live. John 17:3 says, 'This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God and; the one you sent forth, Jesus Christ.'
Should we enjoy life? Of course! Is recreation the prime mover that makes for (not simple instant gratification)lasting happiness? No. The meaning of life is what Jesus said. Very simple, very basic, probably on many of your bookshelves as you read. Sometimes we can't see the forest 'cause all the trees are in our way.:) Kim

I am glad that you have found meaning in the bible. But your meaning and your truth isn't everyones. Everyone has their own meaning, and find it in many diverse and amazing ways.

I totally agree!!:) The question just caught my eye and I felt like giving my view. I assumed that's what everyone was doing. Sorry if I stepped on toes...yours or anyone elses.

Kim

Not that I can speak for the original poster (rme), but your posting seems to be a totally, exactly and toe-neutrally appropriate response to his question, Kim.

Anyanka --

"Toe-neutral" ....... Wow! That's a GREAT expression! I'll have to borrow it!

Kim-the virtue of civil discourse is the freedom to express your views and to hear others' without insult given or taken. I did not think you were proselytizing.

and that toe-neutral thing? Fabulous phrase!

Many people find peace, meaning and solace in their faith. I have no wish for someone to change their faith, and hope that it continues to bring these things to them. So please understand that I do not want to offend or upset anyone here. I just want to explain why I responded the way I did above.

>The purpose that makes us happier? ... John 17:3 says, 'This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God and; the one you sent forth, Jesus Christ.' Should we enjoy life? Of course! Is recreation the prime mover that makes for lasting happiness? No. The meaning of life is what Jesus said. Very simple, very basic, probably on many of your bookshelves as you read. Sometimes we can't see the forest 'cause all the trees are in our way.:) Kim

To my Jewish eyes, proselitizing is exactly how this reads. Do you have the right to post your own opinion? Of course. The question above says "What is your favorite book on this subject? " Do that. Explain how the Bible has given meaning to your life. What have the stories done to change how you are living, or how you live the messages in those stories?

But the above is telling me that I must read the Bible, and following in Jesus footsteps is the only way I can find meaning. You find meaning there - I am glad for you. I do not and don't like being told that I must.
Others who don't see this have not been proselytized from the day you were born.

Ahhh Cindy don't you take a backward step. Proselytising is exactly what it was. If posting something which contains the phrase "the only true God" and supporting the concept that "the meaning of life is what Jesus said " is not proselytising then what is?
Apparently there is some unwritten rule which says that posts which extol a religious point of view or promote the Bible as THE book of eternal truth have to be tip- toed around in some mealy-mouthed, obsequious fashion so as not to cause offence to the original poster or spark religious debate. Would post my views on the Bible but it would serve only to inflame things.
I'm all for avoiding religious disputes on this forum - or any place else for that matter- and keep my religious views to myself. Religion is a private matter and am a little tired of Christians thinking they can pop their heads up and voice their religious point of view with some sort of implicit immunity to argument or criticism.
"Sorry if I stepped on toes." cuts no ice with me. My toes were stepped on and I resent the current fashion for shutting up and swallowing the offence..
Good onya Cindy for having the courage of your convictions. Larry

"to try to convert somebody to a religious faith or political doctrine."
I just don't find an expression of one individual's faith, including quotes from the holy book of that faith, to automatically be an attempt to convert. Especially as "do you think there is a meaning of life, and if so, would you mind telling us what you think? " WAS one of the questions expressed in the original thread starter. I see that question as an invitation for a religious response. (and, as a side note, rme has done it again...he loves to stir the pot.)

On the other hand, Cindy's follow-up post made a valid point as well. We interpret through the filter of our experience.
Raised in a family where my Jewish grandfather accompanied my Espiscopalian grandmother to church on Sunday after she had accompanied him to Temple on Saturday (they used to say that they enjoyed both services and always felt very uplifted by Sunday evening-but the house and yardwork got behind.;-)-and all of the children and grandchildren being exposed to both faiths from birth-we went to a LOT of holiday services between the two of them-and more christenings, baptisms and bar and bat mitzvahs than you could keep track of-I guess I was lucky-we were encouraged to take what was meaningful to us and let the rest flow past us. We had some fascinating dinner table discussions when all the aunts (including the two Episcopalian sisters of my grandmother) uncles (including the one Jewish brother of my grandfather) and cousins (in three generations we've married into everything from Jewish to Catholic and my nephew is investigating Buddism and Russian Orthodox. Now there's a comparison-shopping experience!) got together. Missing family events was the only time we really got grief! "Your faith is your choice" was the whole idea. I was never pressured, so I didn't see pressure in the post.

I feel more pressured when people being talking politics. Where I live, the fervent party-liners are the pushy, judgmental ones, even though this area was originally settled by conservative Protestants fleeing from Europe and you'd think it would be religion. There is little perspective and NO sense of humor. It's all in deadly earnest. Cindy-your funny comment about GW being able to read on another thread would have set up howls of insult and outrage among some neighbors of mine. My daughter's boyfriend had a "Protect Your Rights-Defeat Bush" bumper sticker ripped off his car and a nasty note left under his wipers when he was in the area to race in a bike race. (Not in my driveway, I hasten to add) The neighborhood is mixed religions, races and ages, and two houses away we have a group home for mentally challenged adults-and for the most part everyone mixes well-but do not bring up politics. Then Intolerance Lives!

larry, thanks for that. Yeah, my toes have been stepped on so much its a wonder I have any...

ccr - Our family gatherings were like that without being mixed- we were all Jewish. Whats funny was the heated conversations we used to have on everything under the sun. Its like that old joke - 3 Jews, 5 opinions. We have everything in our family from Orthodox Jews, a Hasidic cousin, to a Humanitarian Jewish family, to those who feel that they are cultural Jews but not religious. So conversations do get very interesting.

Thanks for understanding my POV.

>Cindy-your funny comment about GW being able to read on another thread would have set up howls of insult and outrage among some neighbors of mine.

Yeah - I've already gotten some of that outrage. I have apologized on that thread, and will keep my comments to books and reading - which is what its there for.

My favorite book on the meaning of life is Mark Twain's The Mysterious Stranger. But don't you people who disdain Christianity read it, because we have an angel and I don't want to be accused of proselytizing. And don't you Christian folks read it either, because it isn't a pretty view of Christian society.

I think the Bible is a beautiful book, and I'm not a believer. So Cindy, you did offend me by over-reacting to Kim's post. I do not respect your attitude of "consider me but not thee." You felt free to bash the President just over half the voters picked and then get upset that someone mentions their faith in Jesus. And Larry, the prevailing attitude is more that people of belief are reluctant to post anything at all related to that belief because some folks still haven't dealt with it being force fed them as kids and get all bent out of shape at the mere mention. Liberal bigotry is as offensive as any other kind.

Hmm... well, been called a few things in my life but a "liberal bigot" is a newie.
I have no objection to anyone stating a point of view, religious or otherwise. I could not have argued in the slightest if Kim had said that she finds the bible to be inspirational and to her contains the "meaning of life".
However to suggest that non-followers of a particular faith are "deadened" to life, to quote with approval the idea that to find the meaning of life one has to accept the "only true god" and Jesus as his representative I do find objectionable and somewhat insulting.
To me that is the very essence of proselytising "to preach with the purpose of converting".
If that objection makes me a "liberal bigot" it's an appellation I'll happily wear. Larry

Larry pretty much speaks for me here:

>I could not have argued in the slightest if Kim had said that she finds the bible to be inspirational and to her contains the "meaning of life". However to suggest that non-followers of a particular faith are "deadened" to life, to quote with approval the idea that to find the meaning of life one has to accept the "only true god" and Jesus as his representative I do find objectionable and somewhat insulting.

chris, I am sorry my words offended you. I do not mean harm. But I know when I am being proselytized, and I don't like it any more than I did as a teen. I am not a bigot - I believe strongly in tolerance. And thats my point here. I did not get the impression that Kim was simply talking about the meaning she got from the book. I felt that she was intolerant of others who didn't believe as she does.

>You felt free to bash the President just over half the voters picked

I was out of line, and I apologized. I won't make that mistake again.

>then get upset that someone mentions their faith in Jesus

If I heard those comments at a religious event, or happened to see the same ideas written on an editorial page, I would have shrugged my shoulders. This however is a book group. If Kim would tell me how the beauty of the bible gives her meaning to her life, fine. But for her to tell me that I have no meaning to my life if I do not believe as she does, Yes, I get upset, for such does not belong in a book forum.

BTW I have read the Twain book you mention, I have read most of Twains work. My favorite is probably Letters From Earth and the Adam and Eve Diary. Read at an impressionable age, they helped form my ideas of religion, as well as tolerance - hee, talk about influencing the meaning of my life. He outlook on so many things were years ahead of his time. Perhaps I need to do a reread.

>the prevailing attitude is more that people of belief are reluctant to post anything at all related to that belief

First, as mentioned above, this is a book forum. I reacted based on where I read it. Second, if people are reluctant to post, then perhaps they should consider how they are posting their message. Are they speaking of their experiences, or are they trying to tell others that they should share them too? You Whats funny is that I have had wonderful discussions on religion with a variety of people in another forum. Lots of different opinions, lots of heated argument. But at all times, we respected each other, and never tried to convert someone or say that someone's faith was the wrong one 'for them'. And thats still something I would never do. Whatever faith you believe, as long as your faith does not encourage you to hurt others, its yours to believe. I ask that you respect my belief please.

Tell me about your love for the beauty of the Bible. Tell me how those stories gave you meaning. But don't expect me to find the same meaning if any.

And on that note - this is a book...

Please! I never meant to cause such a commotion. I felt the original question was something uplifting. In a hectic day, someone asked a question that made me think of something truly good. I 'shared' it. I wasn't throwing it out for people to become offended over or argumentative about. Good grief!

If a Hindu, Buddist or Wiccan voiced their idea of what has given meaning to their lives, based on a book relative to their point of view and I choose to read their response to the question...why should I be upset? I wasn't forced. People seem so ready to expect to be offended and feel they have to defend their own little space, which 'little' in the context of the universe...it is, this one person in her own space was trying to share some good. I'm going for coffee now...if you were here I'd pour you a cup. :)
Respectfully, Kim

Interesting discussion. I find that many works of literature have an impact on my evolving view on the meaning of life.
Recently, well the last couple of years, I have been looking at different approaches to the meaning of life question that we have as human beings, or as spiritual beings. I have read Wayne Dyer's The Power of Intention, Ekhart Tolle's The Power of Now, many books by Thich Nhat Hanh and the Dalai Lama. However, I don't consider myself "new age" or Buddhist. I have also read The Bible, both Old Testament and New, and although I was raised Methodist and converted to Catholicism, I don't know that I would be considered a devout Christian. There are so many sources with which to ponder this eternal question, that I would feel that I was cheating myself if I didn't try to explore as much as possible. I do love the stories in The Stone Boy, by Thich Nhat Hanh.I remember reading Hermann Hesse in college and being awakened. Another way that I like to consider the meaning of life is through meditation and journaling. Basically, I believe that we are here to learn as much as possible, not just knowledge, but love, compassion, wisdom and learning to let go of ego. So there you go, my meaning of life in a nutshell! Here is something by William Blake form Jerusalem.
I rest not from my great task!
To open the Eternal Worlds,
to open the immortal Eyes of Man
Inwards into the Worlds of Thought;
Into eternity, ever expanding
In the Bosom of God,
The Human Imagination

Penny

Part of the story in the Bible, especially new testament, is to "spread the word". I think that is all Kim was attempting to do. It is interesting the emotions evoked by this thread and I for one am glad it was started and that I experienced reading it.

Thanks to all.

I posted this a couple of months ago, and it did not get much response at first so I forgot about it.

I posted it because "meaning" is a subject of perpetual fascination for me. Many of the books out there now, some of which I have read, do not do a particularly good job of exploring the question, let alone answering it.

As for religion-- I am a FORMER Baptist pastor. Please note that I said FORMER. I am now a Universalist Humanitarian Christian with Daoist leanings. I reject most of what is called Christianity--having seen it from the inside out, I can tell you that the institutions are corrupt for the most part. Also, they are highly pagan-- early Christianity resembled Judaism, being the offspring of Judaism, far more than modern Christianity, which is highly paganized.
I can relate to the feelings of everyone who has posted on this board. Having become a Universalist, I understand why those of various points of view react to each other the way they do. It makes me want to yell "Stop it! You are all children of the same God (for those of a religious persuasion) or Stop it! You are all children of the same homo erectus proto-human (or whatever) for those of no religious persuasion. "We are family" should be the national anthem for the entire human race.

And if you don't accept this concept-- well then you are the root of evil in this world and you must be persecuted (er, just kidding.)

But seriously, though I do not hold the Bible in the same regard as a fundamentalist, I do take meaning from it. Maybe the most profound book on meaning is Ecclesiastes. The author, presumably Solomon, tries everything, absolutely everything to find ultimate meaning and lasting satisfaction only to find vanity. The only conclusion he reaches (last three or four verses) is that since we will return to God and be judged meaning (wholeness in Hebrew) is found in keeping God's commandments.

And so it is. I can accept this, but the problem is that keeping the commandments is impossible-- people who try to live by religious rules invariably become bitter, hypocritical, hateful, and breakers of the rules. The New Testament explores this problem and gives an answer in one word "Love." Two people are reported to have approached Jesus asking about "aionion" life. To render "aionion" as eternal, which is what the latin church and subsequently most protestants did, is wrong. The word relates to fulness or completion. They were simply asking Jesus Solomon's old question. Jesus simply gave them Solomon's old answer-- keep the commandments, except he changed one thing. Realizing that it is not in our nature to obey like robots, he said that the fulfilling of the commandments is loving. Then he did not fight back against those who hated him and demonstrated ultimate love.

In demonstrating ultimate love, He demonstrated the love of God for humanity, and this should bind us all together. We are all one.

This is the meaning of life in the Bible...