I'm on it with repellents. Did bamboo skewers last year, but after a while cats just started pooping between them (kind of got to admire that). Going to try chicken wire, rue and bobcat urine dispensers (I hope it's not as stinky as the coyote pee my mom tried for rabbits). And will have to remember to keep repelling during the winter. We'll have to agree to disagree about the gross-factor of cat poop v. bird, bat, etc. And about the shrugging off of pet owners' irresponsibility. Honestly, I think most just don't know and should be educated/encouraged to take measures to limit the problem, as we did with dogs. Though I understand it won't be eradicated any time soon. And, again, I'm not personally worried about disease. Dude, I raised a thumb-sucker in Africa:) I only bring up the disease part because it ties in to the pet owners' respnsibility. There is a known, sometimes deadly pathogen in their pet's feces. We can only do so much to control wild animal risks (and a lot is done, actually, to try to control honta and other diseases transmitted by animals, whether the through feces or other pathways), but pet owners *can* do something to control the risk from this pathogen (in fact, help reduce its prevalence), but they are not asked to or don't. I'm not sure why we've decided it's their right to possibly infect even one person at risk of death or sever illness from toxoplasmosis. I don't want to overstate the risk. It's, in the scheme of things, quite small. But, without being overly dramatic, that's not really a comfort to the individual mother who's lost a pregnancy or person who's lost an immuno-suppressed loved one. I'm just saying, there are things that could be done besides having gardeners remove or repel the doo doo, and maybe we should think about doing them. Start by educating cat owners. Why not try? Thanks for he discussion. It's allowed me to procrastinate quite nicely:) Hasta luego.

camp, I don't know if you ever saw it but I did wander over to the ARF in a weak moment last year & posted a tasteless ditty illustrated with some birds but it didn't last long, it was on a thread you started about posts disappearing. I am out of my area of interest with roses but I can just imagine the financial carnage. I've been ordering more grassy material to build this pocket prairie and wouldn't want to make those folks over there feel jealous & inferior over the big bucks I'm throwing around for 'Blonde Ambition' skeeter grasses, more bluestems and especially the very red Big Bluestem turkeyfoot named 'Red October' I can't wait to try out once I figure out a place to plant him. Maybe close to those new stiff blue Indian Grasses where they'll catch the late afternoon sun rays picking up that bright red? I'm already pining for next fall to see the results and bemoaning my lack of space. Greenhearted, my new fav name I ran across recently is Wanda Dudwash. Maybe she can be Fendler's girlfriend. The bladderpods are nice because they bloom so prolifically and early then dry up to almost nothing with the hard pods. You can easily snatch them up if you want to control next years crop. In their habitat, they will make the landscape a sea of yellow as early as February. Mine were in a seed pack I bought from Native Seeds of Sonoran Desert mix along with some other interesting off the beaten track wildflower mixes. I couldn't resist trying this very red Big Bluestem and I can't wait to see it color up next fall. This time of year I am always planning for next fall/winter interest. Come winter, I will be thinking of spring. Here is a link that might be useful: http://shop.nativeseeds.org/collections/amaranth

Not to beat the Abelia idea to death if it's totally unappealing to you, but after hearing good reviews on a new cultivar, Rose Creek, I planted one about 3 years ago. It is in rooty unamended clay soil. It has survived our last few years erratic weather without a hitch. I just measured it and it's 3 1/2 feet tall, and from my investigations before buying it (and despite what the "tag" says) should reach about 4 feet tall. The Linneaus teaching garden in Tulsa has quite a few planted too and recommends it as well. Just a thought or in case someone else is lurking looking for a good all around shrub with little to no maintenance.....Maryl Here is a link that might be useful: Sooner Plant farm Abelia Rose Creek

So sorry to hear about your friend's dog getting sick, but glad he's okay. That's quite a hefty vet bill. As our expert Tally said above usually oleanders are so bitter that it's not nibbled by dogs, but there's always an exception. Thank you for the warning and letting us know that it can happen. Sago palms are another story. It's not at all unusual to hear about dogs chewing on the seeds and dying. When he was a young pup I saw Alfie starting to chew on the new sprouts around the bottom of my 30 year old mature Sagos. I prompty cut the sprouts back and surrounded the trees with heavy black plastic and then covered the plastic with a VERY thick layer of mulch. It's been almost three years. No more sprouts and the dogs and trees are fine. It all these years my female tree has only flowered three or four times. I carefully remove the seeds before they fall.