So even though the nursery has suggested Purple Hopseed to me over and over, my landscape guy says they'll freeze...in our coldest winters, but still never know when that will be. Just yesterday I saw Ligustrum Texanum in a tree form (never seen that before, they must have just gotten it in) which also gets taller than the shrub form...the tag says 10-15'. This would eliminate the issue of it not being tall enough (in shrub form...the only form I had seen until now...). Make a long story short, if I use ZhuZhou, would it look ok next to the Ligustrum? I hate not being able to see it in person. Heck, can't find the ZhuZhou anywhere. I really want something in tree form in part of our backyard, but I don't want Photina and it sounds like Purple Hopseed isn't such a good idea...

So many of the quotes are common sayings now, he had a way to state the obvious that realla brings out an "aha" in those who read his works.

Diane - Thank you for nice comments - especially from such a great gardener! Just wanted to say a bit more about Leander's size. I often refer to the book below by Clair G. Martin who was the curator of the Huntington Gardens in San Marino, CA as a helpful guide to many of the older Austins. Martin has been very accurate in his descriptions of the size and character of roses like Brother Cadfael, Happy Child, The Prince, and Prospero to name a few. His guide distinguishes between warm and cool climates, and offered a more realistic idea of what a warm climate grower of Austin roses could expect given how different the climate of most of England is compared to most of California. Here's what he says about Leander's size: Stature and Habit: 6 feet x 8 feet (warm climate); 6 feet x 5 feet (cool climate) "Like 'Cymbeline', 'Leander' shares a problem with others of the same habit: It grows much wider than tall, and unless self-pegged, it flowers only at the ends of the long, sinuous canes. Self-pegging will help to control the size and encourage more flower production. Otherwise, this is definitely a rose for a low wall or fence where the arching canes can be trained to display the charming flowers to their utmost." He says a lot of nice things about this rose and he clearly likes it, but wishes the growth habit was different. Here's a collage I made of photos I took of Leander today using my weed bucket as a reference point for size. After six months, he's about 18" high and about 2.5 ft wide. The lower right corner shows how the blooms are sitting on top of the canes, which corresponds to Clair Martin's description. Leander and Brother Cadfael (which I've had for 5 years), share Charles Austin as a parent. My expectation is that Leander will be wider, about 5ft compared to Brother Cadfael's 3ft or so, but about the same height, 6ft as the tag from DA says. I'm sure there's someone out there who grew a 14' Leander but I'm going with Clair Martin's experience, and my experience with BC in my climate. Here's a lovely arrangement from the Celebration of Old Roses earlier this spring which was aspirational! I had already planted my Leander but was happy to see and smell this beautiful bouquet. I wish I could have talked to the grower; many people kept coming back to Leander to check it out and smell it. My Madame Ernst Calvat is a sport of Madame Issac Periere which is a darker pink version of MEC. Both are beautiful and fragrant, but typically I prefer a medium pink over dark pink. MEC is a bourbon rose and not a once bloomer; she has bloomed sporadically since the spring flush but she's still so young, and not too developed yet. I've heard that if she's "well grown", she'll do very well in terms of re-bloom, but we'll see. Recently a bird dumped a huge amount of poop all over her and I had to clean all the leaves after it had dried for awhile. So if well grown means poop cleaning, I guess I've done my part. :)) I have considered Chianti, but I'm afraid I don't have room for once bloomers. It's a lovely rose though! Ann

sultry - thank you for your kind comments. I agree that ORA blooms a lot and the blooms last a long time. Her first year, ORA through out long canes but after moving her, she has remained a short rose. She seems to have put the energy into blooming instead of growing which is ok. Here's a photo of the same shrub two years ago. The spray in the rear is from the same plant in the foreground, it was wider and taller initially. I believe the roots were damaged in the move and she hasn't quite recovered. noseometer - you might try ORA. She seems to stand up to a lot of adversity without much of a problem. Here's a collage I did a year ago. Not as fragrant as Sharifa but the petals have more substance making her a tougher rose than SA. Ann