I hired my son's college drop-out son to help me with some yard work one year. He kept telling me how my plants would look *so* much better if I were to line them up in a row with space between them. Needless to say, I supervised all the work he did for me. Another time, I hired a lawn guy to help me weed my garden beds that had really gotten away from me one year. I did not supervise him, and he pulled about 80% or more of my perennials. He did not recognize some very well-established plants and pulled them out as weeds! I came home from work to bare garden beds. When I recovered from the shock and disappointment, I took myself off to some local nurseries to start replacing them. It is year three now, and the garden has filled in quite nicely. Pat

Taoseeker stated: "It would be interesting to compare a few old varieties with the heat treated ones." I am not sure if you are refering to what what I think you are. If you are interested in whether a virused but then heat treated plant does better or worse than one of the same variety that was never virused, this is my response. Plants are very complex, it is possible that the virus and / or the heat treatment may have affected other mechanisms (could be positive or negative). There are many types of examples but since a very recent (2009) example of the "expression of heat stress proteins" has been studied in a rose, I will present that example. The actual research paper is very technical. The paper is at the following link: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=6203748 Rather than looking at the specific details most readers would probably benefit more from the following summary of the field: http://www.cspp.cn/Annual2009/upload/pub09.pdf Please notice the statement: "It is known that rapid heat hardening can be elicited by a brief exposure of cells to sub-lethal high temperature, which in turn provides protection from subsequent and more severe temperature." This does not "prove" that heat treated roses will have better heat resistance. Maybe a longer term of high temperature will result in other effects (positive or negative). I am presenting this to indicate that one cannot assume that other variables are being held constant. It is possible that effects may not show up till years later. Some "cured" polio victims are now finding that many years later problems related to the polio are appearing. -------------------------- The effects of a virus infection can be very unexpected. The following link discusses the observed effect of a virus on aphid population (not done on roses): http://www.springerlink.com/content/uw13564v21223876/ I have posted several times about my experince with a virused Culbert Grant from Pickering. Up to then my best Climber was Illusion. This new Culbert Grant bloomed and grew much better than Illusion all summer. I was very excited. That winter I received a letter from Pickering that it was virused and that they were pulling it off the market. That spring it was dead. Scientists at Cornell University surveyed approximately 2500 roses by visible assessment. They found that 166 had virus symptons: http://www.actahort.org/books/234/234_53.htm From the abstract, it does not appear that anything unusual was observed, but from the full paper a number of unexpected results were reported such as: "Total flower cut weight and total number of flower cuts with nonsymptomatic foliage was greater from PNRSV (severe) inoculated rose plants than from healthy control plants. The data revealed also that PNRSV (severe) and ApMV (severe) inoculated plants outyielded the PNRSV (mild) inoculated plants, which in turn outyielded the healthy tissue inoculated plants. These results were unexpected since reduced yields would be anticipated from virus infections." They then discuss some "maybes. one of these is: "Another speculation is that the initial stage of viral infection stimulates host metabolism by competing and utilizing the host ribonucleic acid polymerases for ita viral replication." i.e. The virus infection may be causing the rose to grow better. ----------------------------------------------- The following non rose paper may be of interest: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=6203748 Explanation of the sympols: (VT) I assume that (VT) means heat treated since I found this using heat treatment as a key work. The abstract is not clear. (My literature search service says the full paper can be down loaded but when I try it states that it is too new and has not been uploaded yet.) (V) is virused infected. (VTR) is virused reinfected. Just to highlight one of the observations: "V plants produced big tubers that weighed more than those from VT plants."

Jessica and Betsy, of course anyone can trade no rules you can't. I was just wanting to get up a local trading swap meet. Michelle ... Dot don't say rust to load I don't want my daylilies to here you. I have been lucky so far not to have it in the garden but did buy two from a local nursery and think they had it so I didn't put them in the ground and just played the waiting game to see what would happen so far they look good and I don't see anymore signs of rust. This is one reason I think I like potting daylilies up before planting them in the ground. This summer when I potted up the daylilies I purchased they did great and by the end of Sept. they had a good root system. I'd be working on the list of daylilies I have and rules for trading locally. Trades outside of local trades are up to each individual. P.S Please be patient with me I take care of my dad and sometimes it requires more of my time. Like taking him for his doctors visits ..he has three doctors.. or when he goes into the hospital. He has heart trouble and sometimes ends up being admitted for low oxygen which makes his heart rate very low. Gardening is my outlet if it wasn't for gardening I think I'd be putting my hair out keeping up with every one and everything. Barb

My neighbor and her daughter actively look for black men on line. Looking for black men is one thing looking on line is another. Here is what happened to her daughter when she found mister right online. I wrote this on another forum. Since you don't know me or my neighbor, I think it would be alright to tell you what happened to her daughter. I am doing this partly to warn vulnerable women. It is a scary story and anyone interested in online relationships should pay heed to this. My neighbor and her daughter joined a singles thing on the INTERNET, the daughter started emailing a guy. After almost a year he came to see her from Texas. He proposed and she accepted. He did all the right things, married her then took her to the social security office to get her name changed, went to the AFB to get her a military ID for her meds, health care,etc.. He told her to sell her car, that he had a 2006 which would be her personal car. He said he was retired military and had a retirement of $4,500 a month. He sent her money to cover the cost of the wedding plus an extra $500. He suggested my neighbor, (his bride's mother) move to Texas if she wanted to and he would help her do that. This is what prince charming has done to her. He had been married 11 times before this one, he filed for divorce before a week was up, he got rid of her 11 year old Yorkie, told her he didn't want a house dog, etc, etc, etc. She is in Texas, broke, no way to get home or move her things back and is trying to work with legal aid for the divorce. My neighbor is heart broken and she doesn't have any money to help her daughter. Very sad, all my neighbor does is cry. I wonder if my neighbor and her daughter will continue searching for love online???