Hello you all..An interesting little discussion happening here..'wigandia' is my wee creation..All I can say IS..Garden yer latitude with attitude..ignore the 'style council' (including my 'look') I am not long back from an extensive lecture tour of the west coast of North America (the so called mediterranean parts) Many of the younger garden types are looking at this more sustainable equation.. a wee excerpt from my talk notes "We, of Australia (and perhaps the west coast of North America) in this 21st century, in cultural and social terms, have embraced this Âalien land. Our identity is stamped on almost all facets of the ÂArts with the possible exception of Âornamental gardeningÂ. Few inroads have been made into the climatic/cultural sensibilities of our garden making Âunder the sunÂ. The lust for the unsustainable Âlook seems ingrained. How odd for seemingly modern and proud nations, of high Âindependent aspirations and competitiveness. In recent times the realization that we must consider the impact of overuse of natural resources for not only local existence but global existence has spurred a move towards a more sustainable approach, My garden ÂWIGANDIA and others are playing prominent roles in the Âpseudo ecological garden stakes. I have long believed that the somewhat Âslavish adherence toÂhosepipe culture has rendered us rather impervious to the true opportunities our climate presents. Some of us have Âtuned to the notion Ânative plants are best, a simplistic but positive step forward!" and "Many of us live in a climate far removed from the source of the majority of our most frequently used plants. Whilst many of these plants grow reasonably well in our rather diverse climatic range, many do not. Traditional irrigation habits have allowed a broad range of Northern Hemisphere woodland plants to be cultivated. These plants often require copious amounts of water during our long hot and dry summers that can extend into autumn and sometimes beyond! The disturbingly complex issue of water shortages and conservation will in the coming years alter our lifestyles. Garden culture as we know it could well be relegated to the archives filed under nice folly but hemi spherically bizarre! The opportunity to strive towards a garden culture that is of our climate offers endless possibilities. Let us look to our own social and cultural values in the creation of a garden that reflects who we are and more importantly where we live!" Nothing more and nothing less!! Best Billy William Martin. Gongoozler. +61 3 5592 5349 Email: williammartin@wigandia.com Web: http://www.wigandia.com "The plant never lapses into mere arid functionalism; it fashions and shapes according to logic and suitability, and with its primeval force compels everything to attain the highest artistic form." Karl Blossfeldt (1865-1932)

welcome aboard bobbi, dry times in the west their 20+ year drought continues by and large. anyhow you are welcome to visit our site there maybe some ideas there for you. also your post may get missed by some better done as a new post from a new gardener. the original heading here has a couple of issues related to it, one being that a new local goup formed and worked hard to build itself and took a lot away from this section, then that new group failed and by then this forum was pretty quiet caused mainly due to the fact that new members who try to subscribe find they can't do so as an aussie they need to use a USA locality name and zip code, this came about at the time GW was sold. len Here is a link that might be useful: lens garden page

Greg wrote: Nathan, these sorts of examples are broadly accepted and acted on by environmental scientists, governments, CSIRO, government land managers, Greening Australia, conservation organisations and now many farmers. You can't seriously be suggesting that they are all be acting on flawed logic and false assumptions! Goverments have a good record of doing things for reasons other than logic. I am constantly amazed how people do the wrong things for all the right reasons. Just the other day in my work I discovered that the 'right way' to solve a certain computer algorithm was slower than another way known about for even longer. After a certain point behaviour becomes entrenched and self-catalysing even when it is known to be wrong. Nathan I reckon that no matter what evidence or logic anyone puts in front of you it will not change your mind because it doesn't fit your own belief system. Au contrair, I am far more likely to change my belief system than you. As I said, I used to believe what you believe, but then I began to doubt the fundamental assumptions. I notice that you still haven't managed to write an argument. Is it too hard? Robert wrote: There is an obvious philosophical line and/or point of view, that goes through Greg's posts. It may well be one that we disagree with, but it is clearly there. There was an obvious philosophical line etc from Stalin. It is possible to be convinced about one's beliefs and yet be wrong. It is also possible to write scientific papers, and be wrong. Sometimes people even retract their statements, but this seems to be very much in a minority. Nathan, consistant ridicule and condescension might satisfy your ego but it unfortunately inhibits constructive debate. Actually, as far as I can tell, I've been trying to have constructive debate, but it's hard to debate when the counterviewpointholders don't even know what they're arguing for. I've tried asking indirectly, I've tried asking nicely, I've tried giving hints and even suggesting methods and started writing greg's argument for him. But he refuses to actually state his cause. How can one have a constructive debate when one isn't sure what the other person's reasoning is, and when at the same time, one feels that that person's actions are illogical and harmful? Whether the issue is the threat of exotic garden plants becoming weeds and therefore their resultant impact on biodiversity or whatever native plants we plant and where we plant them, bludgeoning someone who has not provided the right words for you, is unhelpful. You mean saying things like 'in the big picture you are irrelevant' and 'Clearly there are people in this forum who are not 'converted''? I'm just asking for a simple sketch of why greg believes that we should grow indigenous only gardens with base beliefs, middle deductions and final conclusion. There is no 'right words' about it. Lets say I were a medical scientist, and I...

Thanks Grub I'm glad you liked them, The inferno is my favourite, sweet and fruity but it gets you sweating with that creeping habanero burn. My habanero plants are just going crazy at the moment absolutely covered in flowers. I am looking into a tomato based sauce but I think I will probably do a salsa, maybe smoked habanero, tomato and mango salsa or something like that might use pineapple instead of mango, it works so well with habs, I saw a recipe that used guava and habanero the other day that would be interesting. Well keep enjoying the sauce, hope the tomatos and chillis grow well and good luck with the sauce making. jaunne flammee are growing well, I kept them in pots this season I think I will make some space in the ground next year. Try the smokey jalapeno with mussells its really good. Mick