I agree Robert. It is a bit of a pain at times to do all that. I always wear gloves and avoid breathing it in when I open the bag. I make sure I wash my hands and arms afterwards. I probably should do more but....well, you know!
Cheers,
Dee.

The garden shows certainly should be setting a good example and doing it the way they recommend on the potting mix bag. I certainly never bother, because I consider the risk very low, compared with my daily sortees out onto the highway in my car, or the quick dash across the road in heavy traffic.
How often do you see the little pack of condoms get pulled out in the impromptu love scenes on films?

Wow, that was a good point Jan. The worst bad example was by Peter C from GA when he planted a veggie patch with school kids using horse manure WITHOUT gloves!!!! This is an absolute no, no due to the danger of getting tetanus. How many of us have our shots up to date??? I think the danger of contracting legionella is very low, with tetanus it is a different story.

Yes but aside from the TV folk, who in this forum actually takes precautions and who does not!!!!

The risk from any disease from potting mix is greatly reduced if it is damp. I think that the risk of tetanus is from puncture wounds where the organism is deposited deep in the tissues (Clostridium tetani is a strict anaerobe i.e. only grows in the absence of oxygen) so you are more likely to contract it by standing on a rusty nail in the garden.

Never, and I'm more at risk than most as I take immunosupressants.

Nope - usually wear gloves, but not when planting something delicate.

Hi Robert - I would never presume to stop you using potting compost without following the Government warning first. I would appreciate a good example set for others to follow, if they choose, by TV presenters. If one life is saved by the correct procedure being followed, then that is an excellent result. The Victorian Health Minister announced on Jan 23 2005 that three Victorians died in 2004 after exposure to potting compost, namely legionella longbeachae, and twenty four others suffered illness, followed by a plea to wear a mask, eye protection, and to wash hands and clothing afterwards Try the site at http://members.dodo.net.au/~jamgreen/legionnaires_disease_ 2005.htm.

g'day robert,

nope never use any of those precautions i also don't go agitating the medium in a breeze or any other way either. can't see why one would have to use gloves when using manures from grazing animals? i never have. after all the problem with modern potting mix is what they now put into them and most as i understand it are using humus from sewage production among other industrial/hospital wastes.

i have cfs and my immune system is at a low ebb anyway. i jsut make sure i wash hands thoroughly after using the stuff and don't put my hands near my face when using it no matter what attention the nose needs. for me i reckon if you've got to get dressed up in full protection space suit then maybe it's time we didn't buy their products and made our own?

len

mail len

lens garden page

I believe, as with most things, commonsense is more important than anything.

We all take risks just getting out of bed in the morning and we can't go round wrapped in cotton wool.

It has been proven that keeping kids too clean leads to an increase in the likelihood of asthma, etc. My sister-in-law used to go to extremes when it came to cleanliness eg washed kids slippery slide everyday and when the kids came inside they had to sit in laundry tub and wash themselves. Those kids are always getting sick and one has asthma (no history in families).

My kids, on the other hand, are always playing outside, getting dirty, etc and rarely get sick except for the odd cold. They wash hands before eating and after toilet, etc but we don't go overboard.

The chances of getting legionnaires from potting mix is low if you use commonsense - wash hands, don't breathe dust, etc. Don't forget you can get another type of legionnaires from improperly maintained commercial airconditioning but we still go past airconditioned buildings without a mask.

Wear face masks, etc if you want, I don't and I have been handling potting mix and animal manures for years and haven't gotten sick from them yet. I might get sick tomorrow but then I might get hit by a bus too. That's life.

It should be that most school age kids have had a tetanus shot, but I know there is an increasing attitude that shots are bad for kids. Tetanus shots last for 10 years. Gardeners should have the sense to get a booster when it is needed.
I had a nasty puncture wound when I had a nail flip out of the soil and go down the inside of my boot, and before I knew what had happened I had stood on it up to the 'hilt'. It was a dirty, rusty old 1" galv nail. I certainly had my tetanus booster that day. You are at risk of tetanus just from garden soil penetrating deeply.

Fairy, does that mean you personally, do or do not, use "mask, gloves and general cover-up" when using potting mix?

I don't. I hold my breath when I open the bag and go away for a few minutes as I think the opening of the bag is the critical time...someone please correct me if I am wrong. I always use the mix damp, never dry. I do use gloves when spreading sheep manure. I don't use horse manure because, I don't want to have the injections....I am a sook....:)

I wear gloves (non porous) and a mask. I would say that the risk is very minimal however. I am an ICU registered Nurse and I guess when you have seen a couple of people die from these bacteria and other quite rare ones such as bird fanciers etc you become a little over precautious. I acyually visualise the little bugs jumping through the air at me now...I avoid buying potting mix, I buy the top soil in 10L bags from a landscaping outlet....just something about seeing it in the open and then buying a bag. Hmm yes I guess I do sound a bit paranoid.
RAYMONDO.....I AM A BIT CROSS WITH YOU!!!!! please don't put yourself at greater risk.

I agree with you Happyjacq, partly from my experiences and partly from research, and I will buy unbagged compost in the future, as it's not worth the game. And Robert NSW, I always used the recommended mask, eye protection, and protective clothing, after opening the bag at arm's length and dampening the compost. Certainly one could get run over, or struck by ice from an airoplane toilet, but we have little control over circumstaces like these.

Sensible care when handling potentially toxic substances is the wise thing and one more item to cross off the list of dangers. That's why they put the warnings on the packets.

My father in law, a very fit 70 plus contracted legionaires through the use of council greenwaste,which he used for garden mulch.Had left it stored in garage (does not like messy yard)to use as needed.No doubt confined space and no circulating air were the main contributors.Took weeks for docs to finally diagnose and months to fully recover and this was one very fit and health conscious man.Needless to say has not mulched since.
I've learn't from this to always wear a mask and wear gloves/wash hands thoroughly when handling any compost,manure,potting mix or mulched garden waste.

Well it has been an excellent Spring day here, ideal for gardening. A bloke comes back for an evening glass of wine and a quick look-see only to find all these posts. You lot should have been out enjoying a great Saturdays gardening!!!

Personally I do not use any gear when potting or throwing around chook and moo poo. I have this thing about not feeling anything. When my gloves go on I feel I am inhibited.

I must admit I pay for it. I am often grabbing a Bandaid for one reason and another. Today I have been cutting back some of my native grasses to the ground to get some fresh growth and I cut a finger with the secateurs. I tend to go at it and forget where my digits are in the grass. I still did not put on my gloves. Some folk may see it as foolhardy but as I said, I need to feel the stuff.

I have been throwing chook poo onto garden beds since the 1950's and have always done it au naturel. Stupid maybe but there you are.

It seems to me the rise of litigation seems to have resulted in all sorts of warnings on packets of stuff.

With you on the gloves Robert! I can't see how anyone can pull out weeds properly, roots and all if they can't feel them. I use them for pruing roses - only the hand that holds the prunings though.
With you about the litigation being the reason for the extreme warnings too. Just scares people into rediculous behaviour. If they had warning signs all along the roads telling people what could happen if they crossed, then the same behaviour would be displayed there.

Robert, none of the above but a simple dust mask would be the first thing I'd choose to put on if I start following instructions. Gloves stay on about one minute no matter how many thorns there are.

Cheryl, I know injections are ghastly but please check, people surely can get tetanus in the absence of horse manure. My g/father died of tetanus and I never, ever miss my booster.
Rose

Cheryl - if you are not having your tetanus boosters, then you shouldn't be working anywhere near soil. Tetanus bacterium is dormant in most garden soils, not just horse manure - I would be far more scared of that than opening a bag of potting mix without a mask. Do you know how you die from tetanus? It isn't called "Lockjaw" for nothing.

Tetanus is a bit removed from from this forum. However latest medical ideas are quite different from what is perceived by the general population. as long as the proper immunisation was followed prior to 20 years of age then a single booster shot is not required until the age of 50.
However booster shots are required ( or may be required) for effective wound management eg. the traditional rusty nail through the foot. This is also very cost effective for our beleaguered health system. I have looked after 1 tetanus patient ( an over 70 man) but countless more pneumonias from obscure bugs in my 20 years of ICU nursing.

I have to admit I do wear a mask when I turn the compost, which I started doing after a couple of incidents when I got a strange flu like headache after doing it in the past so the mask is always on now. I spread a heap of mulch yesterday and I wore a mask because I could see some semi composted stuff and mould spores in there and the thought of breathing it in was just too much, but Im like a lot of others here when it comes to potting mix and I usually just turn my head away and hold my breathe, although I almost always tell myself I should go and get a mask, lol

Hm...I shall check with my GP next visit and if she thinks I am in need of one will arrange to take a few days off work and do the deed, not very pleasant at all though...:(, but yes, I do know how one dies, just didn't really think the likely hood would be very high as I am pretty careful in the yard.

I am another one who rarely uses gloves, and never a mask. I too need to feel what I am doing - especially when it comes to weeding. I always spread my horse, sheep and dynamic lifter with my bare hands - as well as use and open potting mixing bags with no gloves or mask either. I just open the bag away from me and hold my breath. The bad thing is I rarely even think of the risks - though I did have a tetanus shot last doctors visit about a year ago.
And I try to use gloves - but they only last about a minute on, even pruning the roses.
this post has been a good read.
Rach

I did start to wear a mask after one of my husband's workmates contracted a form of legionnaires disease through potting mix, she's okay now though but we were all pretty worried then. The mask only stayed on a while though. As for gardening gloves, I cannot use these and get the job done properly and so I sometimes only wear disposable latex gloves unless I am loading the trailer with say bougainvillea or rose clippings. Then I try the heavy duty gloves. My hands actually look worse than a wharfies.I know I should take care but should and do are two different things. Can anyone recommend though a really good hand cleaner for for after gardening use? I have tried solvol, pumice stone and other things but there's nothing quick or effective enough that I know of.
Thanks Jan

After a really nasty infected hand I now wear gloves!! A mask is a step far for me but I only use damp potting mix in the open air, I have always understood that the legionnaire spores love still air to jump up one's nose. Cheers, Sandra

I've put in below a few excerpts from some gov't site on legionella that I checked out a couple of months ago. I wish I would keep the names of the sites. Often I'm in a hurry when I'm looking for info so I just copy relevent bits and read it later.

It is just goes to show that it isn't just potting mix we have to be careful of. It makes you feel like wearing a mask everywhere! It does also mention that those most at risk are males over 45 and those with chronic illness or weakened immune systems (Raymondo take note).

* L. pneumophila, is the species most commonly identified in cases reported both in Australia and overseas, causing approximately 70% of all cases of Legionnaires' Disease

* Less than 5 per cent of the exposed persons are likely to become ill.

* Antibodies have been found in up to 25% of adults tested. This suggests that up to 1 in 4 adults have been infected at some time in their life but have not necessarily developed any symptoms.

* Legionella bacteria are widely distributed natural inhabitants of ponds, streams, lakes, rivers, soil, mud and underground water. The bacteria thrive in warm moist conditions. Although it has been found in waters with temperature ranging up to 60°C, significant multiplication of the bacteria is generally restricted to temperatures of 20°C to 45°C and particularly to the range of 35°C to 43°C. Long exposure at 50°C or shorter exposure at higher temperatures is sufficient to kill the bacteria.
Legionella bacteria may accumulate in cooling towers, evaporative condensers, hot water systems, spas, humidifiers, and nebulisers.

* Outbreaks of Legionnaires' Disease have been associated predominantly with inhalation of contaminated aerosols from cooling towers and hot water systems including showers and whirlpool spas. People can be exposed to these aerosols in homes, workplaces, hospitals, public places and buildings.

* Infection with Legionella longbeachae may occur from inhalation of airborne particles from potting mix.

Robert, when I read this I did a double take until I realised you meant gloveless :) "I have been throwing chook poo onto garden beds since the 1950's and have always done it au naturel."

No matter which way you all go - Take care!

I found Len's comments very interesting - do they really put all that stuff in potting mix?

I used to be very gung-ho about this subject, but in recent times have tried to be more careful since hearing about a friend's mother who is very ill from the effects of enhaling potting mix spores. I to, don't like gloves much, but there are so many different varities now and some are quite slim fitting and acceptible. I moved a lot of very dusty mulch in the last few days, wore a mask and gloves and at times still felt like I was swollowing it and had to rinse my eyes with a saline solution as I felt the dust was giving me a head ache. It's a bit of a worry really. We can't be too complacent if we want to be here to smell the roses for a few more years.

Sallyrose is right in that slim fitting gloves have been available for some time. The ones I have are a light blue plastic on the outside, some other material on the inside and so are fairly waterproof - great for grubbing round in wet soil.

I hate getting my hands and nails dirty in the garden and always wear some sort of gloves.

Goldhills - I find it interesting that antibodies have been found in 25% of adults tested. I gather the immunity is then sufficient to protect from subsequent infection?
If the situation is the same as for toxoplasmosis, then the antibody status is higher in those persons who are most likely to be exposed to the organism through their day to day activities. Thus you would expect the population that handle potting mixes on a regular basis would have a higher incidence of antibodies (greater than 25% of adults) than is found in the general population.
I for one will be happy to ask my doctor next time I see him, to check my immune status, and what protection this guarantees me. I did the same for toxoplasmosis many uears ago, when I had been exposed to infected aborted goat foetesis. I had plenty of immunity, but dating from a previous assymptomatic infection.

At a nearby Kmart the local by-law officer regularly inspects the potting mix displays for broken bags.