Joe: I wanted to post some pictures just for you to understand what I mean and to show you my experience in using the mix you mix for plants I think you are concerned about. If in any way it helps you , I am happy. As a gritty mix user, I don't think I would ever come here and tell you that you have to use it or anyone else for that matter. What I can do is share my experience without the science, which is always valuable in my eyes, this time, and just have fun showing you the great benefits I receive from growing in the mixes you addressed and the issues I had growing in ways I once only knew of. My goal is to see you succeed to the best that you can.:-) Here is some jade pics for you in shallow containers planted in the 1.1.1 gritty mix. I also posted a couple of plants in the 'Farfard' mix and some in the 5.1.1 mix for comparisons... Notice too that there are many leaves that are rooting on top. If the gritty mix dried out as fast as a minute few seem to keep saying, this would not be possible. These ones, the Jades in particular, I only have to water once a week if that, even in hot sun. But here is the other benefit to it! If is should rain everyday, they don't mind it at all! Notice this one in a very shallow pot. Cuttings that are well hydrated only watered once a week lately even in full sunny windows. Some other Jades in bigger pots, although the pots can be small for their size in the gritty mix and doing great with watering only once a week now that the sun is hot, and once every couple of weeks if that in winter. I suppose I could use another more water retentive mix, but they seem to thrive much better for me in the gritty mix. Now here are a couple plants that are still in bagged mixes and amended bagged mixes. Here is a GREAT point Joe. I have noticed that many say the gritty mix dries out or drains to fast, which is just not true in my case if used and or made correctly, but I have noticed that the plants I have not yet changed out of the bagged mixes do dry out VERY rapidly, like everyday, and if I don't catch it, the peat moss mix hardens, pulls away from the pot, and repels watering just like that! In fact, it is worst than the mixes I use. At least the gritty mix and the 5..1.1 mix moistens right away and stays in the pot. For me, it is very forgiving. Here are some examples of plants yet to be re-potted in smaller pots I have to water EVERYDAY..lol Also, notice decreased vitality on my plants in these mixes due to drying again and again in inability for the roots to get watered properly. Once the roots are damaged, they do not take up water, even leaving the mix in pots as small as that damp for days, until the roots recover and by then, it is usually too late. And mind you, they are in almost tight pots as recommended by many bagged mixed growers and never over watered. My geraniums Here is one that will not take to watering well that is still in a bagged mix because the water just runs out from the sides. Here is a geranium I planted into the 5.1.1 mix weeks ago when it stared to decline, and it has responded very well. This is what I plan on doing for my others as soon as the weather cooperates. This one was bought at the same time as the others and grew at a much faster rate once I opened the soil using the 5.1.1 mix. Now here is a 'pothos' and a 'rubber plant' I think, that to me are just ordinary and I could care less what they grow in. They are in the 'Farfard' mix and doing quite well thus far. They have only been in it for 6 months and now due for another transplant before their demise. I will do this though, since I really don't like loosing any plant using 'Farfard' mix once again, saving my gritty mix and the 5.1.1 mixes for my most special plants. I hope I was able to help you stayed focused on your question and enlightened you a bit. There are many various reasons why a mix will dry out so fast, and as I have learned, even a very heavy peat based mix is not immune either. Neither are bagged mixes exempt from water running fast out of the bottom, especially if one lets them dry out to much. The gritty mix is much more forgiving as is the 5.1.1. Why anyone would would steer one away from using these mixes if they are interested in beyond me:-( Thank goodness for forums like these where many are not deterred to share science, facts, experiences , and success behind their plants and are certainly appreciated for all they do. I will always be indebted to the ones that helped me understand the science behinds container growing and you know who you are, just as much as I am to those here who understand trees and pests. Joe, there is a great bunch of people here willing to support you in your endeavors to grow in the mixes that you are particularly concerned about and I am honored to be of help to you too. Got to run:-) Mike

Since I've decided to switch to containers, all my herbs and veggies are in pots/containers so far. I have cinnamon basil, sweet basil, spicey basil, lemon basil, lime basil, feverfew, mint julep, pineapple mint, spearmint, curly mint, hoarhound, Roman chamomile, rosemary, horseradish, garlic, onion chives, garlic chives, regular chives, common sage, lavender, three types of speedwell, epazote, oregano, sweet marjoram, bronze fennel, patchouli, cumin, and that's all I can think of. I plan to plant other herbs, some from seed and some from plants from the local nursery. I expect to have a lot of chamomile, hoarhound, speedwell and mints by the end of summer because I love my teas made with my own herbs. Basically, if I can eat it, cook with it, or make teas with some part of it, I plan to grow it even if only as an annual. I've had some failures with seeds until I stopped fussing over them. When I tried to neglect them (make myself check my plants only once a day, fertilize every other week, won't water if the water has not been sitting out for at least 6 hours) they began to flourish. I even planted the feverfew seeds in a big pot left outside (zone 5) and it has filled the pot already. I'll let them get a little bigger then split them up into different places in the yard. I kind of feel bad that I have experimented with and killed off a few plants and seedlings while trying to learn, but I'm learning a lot. I have a tendency to overwater, so I put pots where there is plenty of sun. Just don't water it in the heat of the day because the plant will cook. The sun is hot here and I have found that the herbs prefer some dappled shade, but I rotate different plants so none gets to hog the shade - and it isn't even full summer yet. Also, since I like to overwater, I put the speedwell and chamomile in self-watering containers. Each time I water them, I tip the container so the excess water goes into one of the other herb containers - they are good tonics for other plants. The only fussing I indulge is moving my plants around a lot. I like to feel that I am doing _something_ for them, so I'll move them around so they can get a little shade, more sun, less wind, insulation on cold nights, etc. That's one of the reasons container gardening is so enjoyable for me. Planting in the ground is a lot of work and if a tree grows more than I expected, or if the wind really kicks up, it's harder to move plants around. My herbs that are in self-watering containers are really thriving, so I suspect that I will switch to using only self-watering containers next year. I'm also seeing how well styrofoam containers will work as they were only $2 each at Walmart. But I haven't put any herbs in them yet, only vegetables so far. When I run out of my small containers for my herbs, I will put herbs in the styrofoam (picnic coolers) containers.

Wit You are not alone in enjoying the city gardens. That sort of gardening is what most people pre-60s did whether they wanted to or not.I grew up with allotments down the road. As to the idea that not all historical gardens are formal - although the image of country gardens has been modified by the romantic Victorians and and historical interpretations of the Brontes etc. they were the exception rather that the rule. Basic country gardens have always existed for the vast majority of the population. Indeed the Greeks, who were the philosophers and wrote some of the earliest surviving books on horticulture, did not have gardens, let alone formal gardens. They were a social and sculpture peole who lived in towns. The few gardens that we have descriptions of are just utilitarian vineyards, and kitchen gardens. Nothing formal at all. Aparently when they encountered the formal styles of the Egyptians and Persians, they bought back plants, but made not effort to make the gardens.

Wow, what a pretty rose. I'll have to put it on my "drool over it" list. Also, those are the two clematis that I have; mine are babies - can't wait till they look like yours! Thanks for the photos! Lara