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Little Rays of Sunshine

19 years ago

Today, in the UK, 23rd Jan, is considered to be the worst day of the year for sufferers of SAD's (Seasonal Affective Disorder).

It is characterised by depression, excessive eating . . esp carbo., weight gain, lethargy and so on. More women than men suffer from it and children are also affected.

The incidence increases with distance from the equator (except where there is snow on the ground).

The UK Met Office says that London has only had approx 15 hours of sunshine this year and that sunrise is at 8am and sunset at 4.30 pm. with less light in the North and Scotland.

Regular treatment is by 'light box' or just by increasing the light source to at least 2500lux (the light in an average living room can be as low as 100lux).

Luckily I don't suffer from SAD's but always feel more cheerful in sunny weather and wonder if RP'ers have a particular book, writer, movie DVD etc or just take a walk in the fresh air to counteract this problem.

How much sunshine is pouring down on you this month? Is the Eastern US brighter than the West in the winter? Are you under several feet of snow in Canada?

I realise this does not apply to RP'ers South of the Equator, maybe they can think back to June/July or tell us about lolling by the pool swatting the flies.

Comments (73)

  • 19 years ago

    I always find winter depressing. I love the holiday season and even Jan. isn't bad, but Feb. is gruesome and March is just plain impossible. Here in western NY, in the land famous for being one of the spots in the US with the least sunlight, we often find March to really be the cruelest month with snow storms and ice storms often occurring. There are almost never any signs of spring til at least mid-April. I always go to San Diego for a week or a bit more in Feb. to combat winter and it really helps. It's hard to believe that in the same country there is a spot where my DD lives with sun almost daily and winter temps in the 60's and 70's during the day. Juswt heard on the news the other day that there had been about 30 consecutive days without sun-now we have had a bit of sun for several days which does perk me up. Snow and cold are fine but lack of sun drives me buggy!

  • 19 years ago

    Another depressive, February birthday here who also hates August! But could that dislike be due to the fact that 1. it's the worst of the hurricane season, usually, where I live, and 2. it's entirely too hot to exercise, even at sunup or sundown.I have to agree with Larry; when it's overcast, I just want to "cocoon" as we say in the US. Scientific studies have been done re the positive effects of light upon the retina, in terms of circadian rhythms, as well as the positive release of endorphins in the brain from exercise, which combats depression mightily.

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  • 19 years ago

    I always have trouble, too, when we change the clocks to and from Daylight Savings Time.

    Last night we had high winds, sleet, hail, snow, rain and thunder and lightning. Today grey, cold and very windy again-but the air is fresher and it is more pleasant-my grandmother called it a "brisk germ blower" and sent us out to "blow away the cobwebs." She was ahead of her time-never told us that getting cold would give us a cold-she hated stale inside air and so do I. I don't like the heat of summer, but do like natural light-lots of it. We replaced many of our lightbulbs in the house with the new "full-spectrum" ones. I don't really feel a difference, though.

  • 19 years ago

    My daughter has a September birthday. She doesn't suffer depression but tells me now that from the time she was old enough to receive clothes instead of toys for her birthday presents, she dreaded her birthday. She always got fall and winter clothes and knew the dark days would be coming.

  • 19 years ago

    Rain at the windows, beating doors,
    And blasts which besom the green,
    And I am here and you are there
    And a hundred miles between.

    Oh were it but the weather, dear,
    Oh were it but the miles
    That summed up all our severance,
    There might be room for smiles -

    But this thwart thing betwixt us twain
    Which nothing cleaves nor clears,
    Is more than distance, Dear, or rain,
    And longer than the years.

    (Hardy)

    I thought it was time we had a bit of a breather and a nice poem to help us out.

    Dido.

  • 19 years ago

    Pam53. 30 days with NO sun, and I thought we were badly off in the UK!

    Cece. I too have trouble with the hour back and forward when the clocks 'change'. It takes me about a week to get into the 'new' time.

    So, it seems exercise is the answer to beat the mid-winter blues. Now when you get home all warm and glowing, rub the dog down and make yourself a cup of something warming what is the book or DVD of choice to keep that inner glow ticking over? I find a couple of the short stories by Miss Read (she is such a sensible non-sentimental writer) a pleasant way to end a cold miserable day. As soon as we figure out the instructions for the new DVD player, that seem to be a 'literal' translation from the Taiwanese, I shall put on my new Golden Girls disks, the very bright colours are bound to cheer us all up.

  • 19 years ago

    I always associated a "down" time in August with going back to school. The end of the carefree summer days, and what to look forward to but lessons, homework and the coming of cold, miserable weather. Like I said earlier, I don't think it affects me very much, but I think it does several people I know.

    I am a Pollyanna-type. Always optimistic. Rarely get down. I attribute this to my mother who wouldn't put up with any moodiness from us as kids, and who is quite an optimist herself.

    I think I am healthier for it, too. Rarely call in sick. Only occasional colds and so on. Have accrued so many sick days that I won't even get credit for them all when I retire!

  • 19 years ago

    I love reading these posts. I live in a place nicknamed "The Valley of the Sun". We have sunny skies most of the year - in fact we just broke a record for the most number of days without rain in a row (yes, drought is rearing its ugly head). So needless to say SAD is not an issue.

    However, the summers here are horrible. And like you who hibernate in the winter and get depressed with cabin fever, we hibernate in the summer, moving from one air conditioned place to another, and staying in doors. Even the evenings are warm. (and no comments on 'its a dry heat'. So is a blast furnace) And not only is it hot, its really impossible to be comfortable. Many people get cranky and very tired during these long months (about 5 or so). So if you think we have it great out here, think again :) One good thing - the heat keeps me from doing outdoor activities like gardening and walking, so I stay in and read and read and read....And we bought a treadmill last year, which was a life saver.

  • 19 years ago

    DH and I have our retirement plans all in place (in our heads, of course, unless we win the lottery) winter in Arizona-house up in the hills above Scottsdale, we're thinking right now; summer in Seattle in a penthouse condo that overlooks the sound and the market (we picked it out on vacation this summer-there 10 days-not a drop of rain!) within walking distance of the ball park; spring and fall North Carolina on our private island complete with family compound for visiting grandchildren (hopefully they are not as iffy as the lottery thing.) Ilove seasons, and the different light qualities that you get with the different heights of the sun....but I gotta have that light.
    Captainbackfire-I agree about state of mind being a big part of illness-my mother would tell us "you haven't got time to be sick this week-you have ...too much homework, a project due, big game, trip out of town, holiday...so why don't you wait and be sick next week?" We'd laugh, but just that idea of not giving in to the germs was always there.

  • 19 years ago

    Anyanka, I'm sorry to hear of your father's illness. My deepest sympathy.

    I've a couple of pals with those lights designed for SAD. Both swear by them.

    Taking up skiing made all the difference in the world to me with regards to getting through winter without curling up under a quilt with a book from New Year's until St. Patrick's Day. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Fresh air, sunshine, and exercise -- the universal remedy for all that ails.

  • 19 years ago

    Would you believe that I get SAD in both hemispheres? My only respite is retail therapy!
    A couple of hours trotting around brightly lit shopping malls, browsing through bookshops and jewellery stores, preferably with some available cash is a great help to cure the blues.
    Outdoor exercise in bad weather usually gives me a cold and the dog won't go out (sensible girl!) so that is not an option.
    My sympathies to fellow sufferers, this is a genuine ailment, in spite of the disbelief of those who don't get it.

  • 19 years ago

    Here in Texas too ---- we MIGHT get some rain today and tomorrow. Badly needed too!!

    We are suffering from the Real Theory of Relativity Syndrome -- no matter how far you move ------ your relatives always find you. LOL!!! Trying to tidy the house and find the spare sheets for the beds.

    My mum and sis are arriving on Saturday for two weeks of "Mother-of-the-Bride Shopping Blitz" for my niece's wedding in July. Plans to hit every possible shop and outlet store (and there are lots!!!) in the surrounding area. My sis is on a diet ------- so those stores had better have the right dresses!!! LOL!!!

  • 19 years ago

    I accept the rebuke, Larry. I'm lucky in that I don't suffer from depression (in the clinical sense) and nor does anyone I know.

    I get fed up, at worst. But it never lasts more than a day.

    Dido - sunshine on snow is my absolute favourite! Especially on a high mountain, when it's really cold, and the snow is crisp, and the conditions are perfect, and the slopes are not crowded, and I'm skiing well.....

    Excuse me - I got quite carried away.

    Damn - I haven't been skiing for years - I really must go back on the slopes. When I was younger I used to ski every year without fail...but then you get married, and you have kids, and it's always packed at half-term, which is the only time you can take kids....

    Ah well....

  • 19 years ago

    Damn - I haven't been skiing for years - I really must go back on the slopes. When I was younger I used to ski every year without fail...but then you get married, and you have kids, and it's always packed at half-term, which is the only time you can take kids....

    ...and you can't afford the price of the lift passes plus the equipment...plus nowadays there are lots of hormonally charged snowboarders out there who are like flying guillotines as they "catch air" and land on the poor middleaged skiier below who is carefully navigating moguls, and wondering whatever happened to their knee joints.
    And if that same middleaged skier dares to tray snowboarding, he/she is called a "gray on a tray" and other rude epithets by said snowboarders. You can't win.

  • 19 years ago

    Hi Martin ole mate. Wasn't rebuking you. Sorry if I seemed to be. Castigating myself a little for initially making light of a subject that I knew to be an horrific issue for some people.
    Making off hand, jokey remarks about depression and related conditions a not so admirable habit of mine. Purely my way of dealing with the condition and its effects. Have to pull myself up short when I find myself doing it. A lot of genuinely nice, compassionate people have little or no concept of the destructive and corrosive effects of depression and SAD and so, perhaps as a defensive strategy, I tend to minimise the impact it has on me personally with an attempt at some inappropriate humour. Then I tend to over correct and become ultra serious on the subject.
    My apologies if I gave the impression of censuring you. My ramble a well worn path of internal dialogue. Sorry if I dragged you onto it. Larry

  • 19 years ago

    Larry and martin, I do appreciate your comments above, thank you.

    Hee, ccr, you sound like us. We love the seasons, and since we have two here (hot and not hot) we love to travel. So we have decided where our retirment homes will be: Betys y Cowd, Wales; Paris, Vail Co, and San Diego. Think we can do that on two teacher's salaries? :)

    Oh, and if you do make it to Scottsdale, lemme know.

  • 19 years ago

    I'll take Tahoe and Key West for my retirement communities. Oddly enough I fell in love with the tiny but exquisite houses in Key West.

  • 19 years ago

    cindy, do you realise that in Betws-y-coed they measure the rain in feet rather than inches? You will need to speak Welsh like a native, put up with dark suspicious looks and be happy in the company of a large population of sheep? ;-]

  • 19 years ago

    Up at 5:30 this morning to get DS off to a volleyball tournament-there is no time so dark as then. (or cold) No car lights up on the main road, no lights on inside other houses-and clouds, of course, so no stars or moon. The worst of it is, his ride arrived at 6:10 and off they went-but I can't go back to bed to sleep-I need to be up and on my way to a meeting by 8:00, and would probably be deep within REM sleep and find it difficult to wake up, not to mention being groggy all day. But I did get to check in here and chat while enjoying my first mug of Brodie's Scottish Breakfast Tea.
    DH is still asleep, and will sleep right through my getting ready for my meeting, leaving, returning around 10, and then he'll get up so we can follow on to the tourney. Did I mention I hate him?
    arrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh.

  • 19 years ago

    Hee - veer, Northern Wales is honestly one of our favorite places on the Isle. We stayed at a bed and breakfast in Conwy and traveled all around. And I can handle rain - esp in the summer (which is when we'd be there of course). As for the rest, well - we'll manage some how (actually I felt more at home in Conwy then I did in many other parts of Britian)

    Cindy

  • 19 years ago

    I got my mother one of those lights. She has had dreadful depression every winter that I can remember. I don't know if she ever uses it though. Where she lives, the sun rarely shines all winter long.

    I think SAD is real for some people, but probably only a few of those who fancy they suffer from it. As for me, gray days sometimes make me moody, but in an imaginative way rather than a gloomy way. It puts me in the mood to take long walks and think dreamy thoughts, make up stories in my mind, and ponder the mysteries of the universe. It is at times like this that I sometimes imagine I'll write someday.

  • 19 years ago

    Having lived ten months in Bangor, quite within driving distance of the beautiful, but in winter, very grey, Betws-y-Coed, I can personally confirm the rain. We now have a term in our family, 'Welsh rain', which describes the precipitation when you look out the window, screw up your face, and wonder 'is it raining or not?'.
    A bit hard for someone from a climate where there is little summer rain and only about 20 inches of rain a year.

  • 19 years ago

    Howdy from Chocolatetown.

    Another gloomy day. Rain, mist, darkness. Cabin fever. At least snow is white and bright.

    I turn on all of the lights but I need sunshine. I think I saw the sun for 20 minutes today, but it's been so long since a bona-fide sun-sighting, I may be mistaken.

    Gloomy gloomy... Bring on the daffodils.
    PAM

  • 19 years ago

    Chocolate town, meaning Hershey? A dear friend of mine came from there. Said that to this day she can not abide eating that brand of candy, the smell so permiated her life growing up. So I just take her share ...mmmm

    >A bit hard for someone from a climate where there is little summer rain and only about 20 inches of rain a year.

    Hee, I come from a similar climate, and I actually liked all of the rain. That being said, the longest we were there was 2 weeks....ten months might be a totally different story.

    BTW one of my favorite travel memories was in the Catherdral in Bangor. I had just finished reading Sharon Kay Penman's most excellent series on Wales in the 12th century, and was on a quest to find some of the places that she mentions in her books. I found Joanne's coffin, and Swallow Falls (much smaller than I expected!) and also saw Lleyellen the Great's tomb in the cathedral. The book came alive for me at that moment.

    cindy

  • 19 years ago

    The 7th February is the day, in the UK, most likely to be used for pulling a sickie ie ringing into work, coughing and wheezing down the phone and claiming to be far too ill to come in. 94% of us admitted to doing this last year (though not all on 7th!)
    Also know as skiving (rhymes with driving), although it is possible to skive while at work . . . going outside for endless quick smokes, making calls on the office phone to your bookmaker, extra long lunch hours etc. Not that anyone here would be familiar with such goings on.
    This is all leading to a question I would like answered by someone from the US please.
    Over here we get many reality TV progs. from the US, mostly they are rubbish and I'm a sucker for them.
    The other night we saw a thing about the fattest man in the world, a guy who weighed in at over 1000lbs. The size of an average whale, he had to be man-handled from his huge bed through a hole in the house wall to an ambulance and hospital where many operations/treatments/therapies followed.
    Now my question is (and the DH asked me and I didn't know) Who pays for this treatment? He seemed to be from a very 'blue-collar' background, had always been too fat to work and presumably had never had any insurance and must spend what money they had on vast quantities of junk food.
    It has always been assumed in the UK that unless you are well provided for etc the vast majority of US citizens cannot get proper medical care and that even ambulance crews go through the pockets of road victims to check that they carry some insurance info.
    Please tell me this is a myth. I am not trying to start some terrible political debate/fight, I would just like to understand how the fat man got treated.

  • 19 years ago

    Hey, guess what:

    According to The Guardian (UK daily newspaper) yesterday, south Wales (but not necessarily north Wales) had the least amount of rain of the whole of UK for January; not much for December either - it looks as if the weather-pattern is changing. And now I look, I notice that my gills are closing up and my flippers receding....... So you can come back to this Lovely Land of Cymru, Astrokath and others, and not have to swim for your lives.

    Dido

  • 19 years ago

    VeeR, Probably at that weight he was officially "disabled" and on social security disability. I suspect that maybe some form of health insurance ties into that.

  • 19 years ago

    I know the health care system in the states is not like here in Canada, but from what I understand, in the case of that TV show, the broadcasting company usually will pay for the treatment. As with many of the reality TV series such as The Biggest Loser (where people go to get fit and loose weight) or The Swan (a show about women who get plastic sergury) or Extreme Makeover/EM: Home Edition all the costs of these productions are covered by the broadcasters.

    As for the health system itself, I am under the impression that there is both public and private care in the states and that if you cannot afford private care you simply have longer waiting times. I am not American, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, much of my impressions are based on the American TV and news we get here in Canada.

  • 19 years ago

    Cindy and others from Arizona: Do you know of a website where you can find if the road into the North Rim of the Grand Canyon is open or closed. We've postponed our trip to England until later when we have more time and instead are spending a week visiting the Grand Canyon and surrounding area in late April. Everything we've read says that the North Rim usually doesn't open until the second week of May unless the weather has been mild. We've booked a place for 2 nights at the South Rim but it sounds like everyone and their dog goes there -- I'm bracing myself for hordes of people. We are hoping that the North Rim will be less crowded.

  • 19 years ago

    Janalyn, I can't answer your question but suggest you post it on fodors.com in their Travel Talk U.S. Board section. Fodorites know everything.

  • 19 years ago

    Our insurance and medical care is a laugh-riot. College students don't worry about finding a job with a good salary when they graduate nearly as mcuh as they worry about having "benefits" i.e. medical insurance. Full-time employees must be given some sort of insurance by their employers, but it varies-some employees pay nothing, others pay part-to cover our family my DH has almost 1/3 of his salary deducted each week. Then we have co-pays when we get meds or visit the doctor.
    Then there is the issue of specialists. Some insurance allows your doctor to refer you to the specialist of your choice-some have a list from which you must choose. Others must give approval for any treatment beyond the basics. If you don't have insurace through your employer, there is a program in my state that covers minor children, and you can buy an individual policy for adults...but if you don't have a job that would probably provide the insurance,where does the $$ come from to buy an individual policy? However, I would not classify what we have as either public or private.
    There is Disability provided by the government but it is also its own mess.
    A few years ago there was an ambitious plan to completely revamp our healthcare system, but so many special interests chimed in that it got nowhere fast.

  • 19 years ago

    It has always been assumed in the UK that unless you are well provided for etc the vast majority of US citizens cannot get proper medical care and that even ambulance crews go through the pockets of road victims to check that they carry some insurance info.Vee, a lot of the assumptions of Britons and others about the American health-care system are based on myths and urban legends perpetuated by Americans themselves, disgruntled over the calibre of services provided, of which there is plenty to complain about in some cases. In the U.S. it is illegal for public services to be denied to anyone in an emergency or distress. If some service group (including ambulance crews, firefighters, police, child protective services, etc.) flub their responsibilities or seem to discriminate in some way, they can be sued, fired from their jobs, and are generally raked over the coals by the news media. Then, if they are found guilty in court, they can serve prison sentences and/or have to pay fines and restitution costs. Unfortunately, these things aren't as unusual as they should be, but neither are they as common as the glorying-in-bad-news media make them seem.

    Generally, in my experience with both American health care and the socialist styles of the UK and others, basic emergency-type services are provided in both -- the difference being in the U.S., if a patient has health/medical insurance or has the wherewithal to pay (sliding scale may be considered), the health-care providers are paid by those entities instead of by the government. Over and above the basic services, a patient may elect to have treatments that either he or his insurance pays for -- much the same as Britons who choose to get private treatment. The main difference -- considered a gross inequity by some critics -- is that very, very expensive and experimental treatments, such as, say, organ transplants, are not usually paid for by the U.S. government and there's no automatic waiting list. So, in a sense, in the U.S. the ability to pay does figure in the quality of overall health care of an individual, but, as I understand it, there are certain Britons who can leapfrog that system in much the same way. Is that not true?

  • 19 years ago

    >Do you know of a website where you can find if the road into the North Rim of the Grand Canyon is open or closed

    janlyn, normally I'd say that you should double check conditions first and see if its open. But this year the north country has had very little snow. In fact, I don't think the ski resorts even opened. So I don't think you'll have a problem at all. And April should be lovely - you'll avoid many of the winter travelers who are heading back home, and you'll avoid the folks from the desert looking to escape the summer. Plus you are right, the north rim is usually much less crowded than the south, and I happen to think wilder and more interesting.

    You can google Grand Canyon National Park to find the site. I imagine you'll get all the info you will need. One travel tip to consider - several hours west of GC is a cowboy town called Williams. It runs an old fashioned rail from there to the Canyon. Scenery is lovely, its a nice way to get a feel for the area, and the entertainment, whilc hokey, is kinda fun.

    >Then there is the issue of specialists

    Case in point. One of my three year old students does not chew correctly, and has trouble moving his jaw. Its always been thus, but his parents are poor and don't have access to decent insurance. So they have to deal with ACCESS (our version of Medicaid). The speech therapist said he needed a craniol facial specialist, and sent a referral to her doctor. The doctor said no, he needed to be seen by a dentist first who then will refer him to an oral surgeon (which isn't what he needs) So mom took him to the dentist only to be told he doesn't take her insurance and sent him elsewhere. And so it goes.

    There are many who are able to get ins benefits from work - I am one of the lucky ones, tho even our costs have gone up. But there are way too many people who work at jobs that do not give benefits, and they do not make enough money to pay out of pocket. So they avoid drs, and go to the Emergency room when they absolutely have to.

  • 19 years ago

    Thanks for all your comments re health care. The feeling I am left with is that it is very complicated, at the end of the day no-one will actually be left in the gutter, but having $$$'s is better for your health.
    Frieda, certainly some people in the UK have private medical insurance (no idea what the %age is) and many more private hospital are being built. I.M.O the old mix of National Health/Private beds in the same hospital was not a good idea.
    You are right in saying that the NHS was originally a 'socialist' introduction, part of the huge welfare reforms post WWII, but all political parties support the principle of 'Free at the Point of Delivery'. Of course over the years the system has become bogged down in a welter of paperwork, Govt directives, a new breed of managers ( I think they now outnumber patients) . . . not to mention the huge expansion of medical advances and technology.
    I think the thing that would amaze US visitors is the length of time people are prepared to wait for non-emergency ops., months, even years are not uncommon.
    That is where £££'s help. If you can pay for an op and 'go private' life is much easier.
    On the other hand if you need a complicated 'procedure' it is often better to have it carried out in an NHS hospital rather than a private one, as they have the expertise and the backup staff in case of problems.
    Although the Govt 'pays' for the service it must be remembered it is with the taxpayer's money! Originally part of the finance came from central Govt, part from Social Security paid by all wage-earners, and part from the employers contribution. These days, who knows? Money from Road Taxes is as likely to go towards our health as keep the roads in good repair!
    I can't guarantee all the above is 100% correct but I hope it gives you a basic gist of the situation. Someone our there is sure to put me right.
    Oh! forgot to mention you don't have to go on a waiting list to have a baby, although the time a mother is 'kept in' gets shorter and shorter . .we will soon be back to the old tales of the gypsy giving birth under a hedge and then straight back to pea-picking.

  • 19 years ago

    Thanks Carolyn and Cindy for the tips!

  • 19 years ago

    Vee, how long do new mothers get to stay in the hospital in the UK? Back in 1995 we were down to 24 hours here for a normal delivery (with my first child I was booted out so fast my head was spinning) but after an enormous hue and cry from the public and doctors about "drive-thru deliveries" the stay was extended to 48 hours (my second child). I'm not sure if it's changed any further since 1999, but those were the limits on my insurance and I was working for an insurance company at the time. Ah, memories *g*.

  • 19 years ago

    Sheri, I know the time one can remain in hospital after delivery has got very much shorter and 24 hours seems to be quite common . . .no need to pack even your toothbrush. In this modern age where young mothers are often not surrounded by their own mothers or other experienced family members leaving hospital so early especially with the first child is quite a shock. Surely the old habit of spending a few days (in my Mother's day it was always 2 weeks) before coming home should be a time, not only to recover your strength, but to learn from competent nurses how to feed/bath/change the baby.
    Our 3 were born in '78, '80 and '82 but between the first and last (at the same hospital) the rules had changed so that from a nice orderly 'routine' of feeding, bathing, resting (the baby and Mother) it became 'Do what you like when you like'. Young mothers were left to cope as best they could while the nurses did very little.
    I am really convinced that this lack of 'order' (but not quite to military standards!) has led to so many of our modern child-handling/rearing problems.

    An interesting point about your insurance only covering you for 48 hours . . .had you had 'problems' would it have been extended? Over here there are only 3 'Private' maternity hospitals in the whole of the UK (just looked it up).
    Some talk of following the US pattern of caesarena section 'on demand' in these places as the mothers are too posh to push. Little evidence of it happening elsewhere in the country because all the hosps are too proletarian for a caesarean!

    Can anyone tell me is it still possible/encouraged to have a baby at home in the US? OK 'possible' is the wrong word, as I'm sure there are cases of women giving bith in the back of ambulances, crowded tenements etc and doing fine.

  • 19 years ago

    Vee, had there been a problem or if I'd had a caesarean, I would have been covered for additional days. I agree, I could have used some instruction with the first one, we were sent home with a colicky baby and absolutely no clue what to do. Thank goodness my mother lives nearby! An extra day and some practical help would have made a huge difference. With the second one at least I knew what I was doing, and as he weighed in at just over 10 pounds when he was born, he slept like a log early on and was a very easy baby, LOL.

    Too posh to push, what a great line!

    Women in the US can still choose to have their babies at home with a midwife. I don't know what the insurance ramifications would be in that case, but it is still done.

  • 19 years ago

    There are also many hospitals which have birthing rooms - made to look like a bedroom at home. Supposed to be more comfortable, but its not home - which if I had kids is where I'd want to be.

    I am remembering that mothers with complications can stay until the complications resolve, but I suspect that has to do with the policy. And yes to more time for mom and baby in the hospital. While I cringe when I think of those cold nurseries where the newborns were whisked away, where dad had to wait in the waiting room, when women were routinely given drugs which affected the babies - the one thing they did right was allow a woman 5 days.

    BTW even if you have insurance, a long hospital stay can be catastropic for the family. A good friend of mine had to stay in bed for the last three months of her third pregnancy. She was monitored via phone connection, which I thought very cool. She delivered early, the baby was in an incubator for 2 weeks (and now at 11, she is doing just wonderful). But after two years, even with insurance, they could not pay their portion of the bill, so they had to declare bankruptcy.

    Another side to employee benefits is time off. Most companies give mom's 6 weeks. In my eyes thats just too short of a time. Mom is just getting her bearings, connecting with baby - let it be at least 6 months for heavens sake (for me, that would be the time when I'd say - ok, I'm ready to work! Get me outta here! This is why I teach and don't parent :)

    Someday when I rule the world, many things will change...

    Cindy

  • 19 years ago

    My first son and I spent five days in the hospital. That was 1984. My second son was born in February 1987, ten weeks early. He weighed 2 lbs. 13 oz. I went home without him after nine days and he stayed in NICU until May 17th when we got to take him home with oxygen tanks and monitors. Both deliveries were caesarean but not because I was too posh to push. Son #2's medical bills mounted to over $250,000 by the time he left hospital, most of which was covered by our insurance.

    Because I visited my son daily, I got to know several other sets of parents whose babies were in NICU. I helped one couple who didn't speak English very well fill out required paperwork. They were indigent and one of the social services was assuming their baby's expenses. It was a big mess, but it appeared the child was getting superb care -- she got to go home a few days before my son did. Ours were situations that worked out, but I'm sure there were other stories that weren't so happy.

    If my second son had been born first, I'm sure he would have been an only child. I didn't have a clue with my first one and I was some six thousand miles from my mother and other family members, but he must've been an easy baby as he accepted my muddling. I managed with #2 also, but I think it was because I was on automatic pilot a lot of the time, as terrible as that sounds.

  • 19 years ago

    My daughter was born at Tripler Army Hospital in Honolulu. I stayed five days, and if you were getting along normally, you were required to have "rooming in," which meant the baby was in your room and yours to feed and change.

    The nurses gave classes, with required attendance, on bathing and formula making, knowing full well most of us were first-time mothers far away from home and trying to make sure we didn't take the little darlings home and kill them.

    On the other hand, one of my nieces had a baby during the 24-hour days. She went into the hospital after noon and was discharged before noon the following day because of her insurance policy, so she wasn't even in 24 hours. In Kentucky, at least, the time has been changed to 48 hours, the reason being that so many babies were coming back in difficulties such as jaundice, and after being discharged they can't be put back into the regular nurseries.

    I remember my mother commenting on my "short" stay in the hospital. She had us at home and stayed in bed nine days.

  • 19 years ago

    >Because I visited my son daily, I got to know several other sets of parents whose babies were in NICU

    Over the years I have had several students who were premmies and had to spend time in the NICU. Every one of the parents, without exception, was so thrilled with the care they got from the nursing staff, and the support that all of the parents gave each other. This is how it should be.

    >if you were getting along normally, you were required to have "rooming in," which meant the baby was in your room and yours to feed and change.

    Required, heck - I'd have insisted on it! I like the idea of classes too. In former times the extended family helped with care and advice (granted, not always welcomed) and teaching. Now so many mothers are a distance away from their family and don't have other ties. Having a class where you can ask something and learn something would be invaluable for them (and the dads)

    Cindy

  • 19 years ago

    Cindy, I didn't say, but my daughter was chosen for the bath baby demonstration. I was (and am) convinced that it was because she was the prettiest candidate available.

  • 19 years ago

    Oh, I have no doubt (and how old is this pretty baby now?)

  • 19 years ago

    You would have to ask--she was 50 in September, but I was only four when she was born.

  • 19 years ago

    I should have mentioned that over here we have ante-natal classes that first time mothers are encouraged to attend. Nurses discuss how to bath/feed/change a baby etc and what will happen during labour, breathing techniques . . . all believed by the lambs going to slaughter!
    After the mother is back home she is visited daily by a 'Health Visitor' for, I think, 10 days. She weighs the baby and generally checks that everything is OK.
    Of course these days, not only are husbands encouraged to be present at the birth, which some may see as a mixed blessing, but are allowed a couple of weeks off work to help at home.
    I found the best advice I received was from a part-time nurse at our local hospital. She said when 'burping' a baby, instead of putting it against your shoulder and patting it on its back, until it vomits down your neck, sit it on your knee holding its back and neck so they are in a straight line, with your other hand holding its head level. And bingo! It burps straight away; even the smallest baby.
    Another excellent idea was when bathing a new-born baby . .. instead of putting it in the water facing upwards when it straight away goes into a sort of spasm with feet and legs stuck out . . .put it gently into the water on its front, just holding it by the chin and it will be much calmer and go through 'swimming' motions.
    If anyone has a spare baby knocking about at home try these; they really do work.
    Cindy the 'rooming in' idea was all the rage when I had my three. Except that in the UK no one has individual rooms (unless there is some big problem) you are in open wards of about 6-8 beds. So, not only do you have your own little bundle of joy to attend to and listen to in the dark in case it has stopped breathing (remember that?) but all the others as well. One starts to cry, they all cry . .. and cry. The hospital had plenty of nursery facilities but chose not to use them; I never found out what the nurses did. By the time I got home I was exhausted through lack of sleep.

  • 19 years ago

    >You would have to ask--she was 50 in September, but I was only four when she was born.

    Hee. I bet this would be a bad time to say that you could have been my mom (I will be 50 next January. But if it makes you feel any better, my mom if she was still around would be 87... :)

    >but are allowed a couple of weeks off work to help at home.

    I just don't get why more people refuse to see this necessity. Unless its because most who are making the rules are men who never bothered to help with the kids....And the Home Visit idea, esp for new mothers, is another every day occurence that I would require if I ruled the world....

    One good thing we do have here is a system for visits when a baby is born with problems, and is determined to be at high risk for disabilities. All states have some sort of early intervention program where a parent advisor is available to the parents for questions or visits, and to direct them to resources that they might need as the child grows. Sometimes its just a phone call to check up, and sometimes its a weekly visit till therapies and other assistance kicks in. Unfortunately like anything else, the quality of the program depends on where you live. But its better than nothing.

  • 19 years ago

    I think it is funny that this thread is called Little Rays of Sunshine and has turned into a baby discussion.

    Re a couple of weeks off for fathers, even the Army in 1955 gave my husband two weeks off when we came home from the hospital, and a nurse showed up on a surprise visit after a couple of weeks or so--of course, on the first morning that the baby had slept several hours and I had slept late and hadn't yet made the bed or folded the clean diapers that were pitched on the couch. You are familiar with cloth diapers? (And I will be 70 in July.)

  • 19 years ago

    I had my babies in 1990 and 1992 in UK hospitals; the first one by Caesarean as she was upside up with one leg across her chest and no intention of leaving the warm, dark nutritious place (she still acts like that most school mornings). The hospital in Epsom gave me a single room for nine days, after that a nurse or midwife came to my home every day (can't remember how long for), followed by frequent visits from a health visitor. The health visitor system is an excellent setup, in my opinion.
    There were ante- as well as post-natal classes at the local doctors surgery. All this on the NHS, albeit in a wealthy part of England which may make a difference. I thought the care was excellent, and I had access to all the information and help one might need.
    With number two daughter, a very easy birth, I was in a ward of 8 or so, but allowed to leave after less than 20 hours.

  • 19 years ago

    "no intention of leaving the warm, dark nutritious place (she still acts like that most school mornings)."

    Hehe, Anyanka... I had a model like that as well, she was seriously put out at the whole ordeal and refused to nurse for days.
    We went home after about 10 days and both collapsed in our respective beds after my mum arrived and stayed...and stayed, thank goodness. I didn't have a 'home visit' until long past the need.
    Currently, in Canada, families are entitled to one year off for maternity leave, taken by mum or dad or shared by both.

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