There's still doubt about the identity of "Whittle-Byer". The flower looks like LMF, but there are some differences in the other parts of the plant, and there is also another early HT under consideration. Oh, Masha- your pictures are really lovely! Jill

Hi Jeri, Mind reader that I am, here's my guess as to what Susan is responding to: "I happened to see your canes/thorns picture of White Maman Cochet, Cl. I know that Rose Rosette Disease isn't common in California, and it might well be completely normal behavior for that variety (that I don't have), but my Cornelia did the same thing in the fall enroute to coming down with a full-blown case of RRD the following spring. I'd suggest that you just start paying attention to details if you haven't already: www.rosegeek.com." and "Susan, I was potentially bearing bad news. You are totally forgiven if you didn't want to hear it; it's a perfectly normal reaction. I did go to the Antique Roses Emporium and noticed that they say that their Mamam Cochet (the regular pink one) has few thorns, and I felt a little thud in my stomach for you, but I hope I'm totally wrong here. "If you've lived for long with this rose, you might pay attention to your own instincts. That is, has it rather suddenly _changed_? My Cornelia did, though I'd only lived with it for about six months at that point, and I was a relative newbie to roses than. Still, I have a good bit of gardening experience generally, and my gut told me to worry; I almost took the rose out at the point that, in retrospect, I should have taken it out. If only I had, it might have saved me the grief of eventually losing 46 more roses (no kidding). The thing that dissuaded me: the poo-poohs of those far more experienced than I was who said the rose wasn't (yet) showing (the full-blown kind of) RRD symptoms. By the time it did show unmistakeable symptoms, it was too late, and the disease had spread to another rose in a pot... which my husband managed to take and sit right in the middle of all the new rose arrivals in another section of the yard, from which it spread like wildfire over several months' time. "Other early symptoms I found (from different varieties): unusually wonderfully strong scent on a rose that previously had reasonably good and sometimes almost no scent, luscious-looking abundant growth that was so thick you had trouble finding the cane, black thorns that don't necessarily remain black (by the time Cornelia was showing the full-blown symptoms, the black thorns were no longer black), leaves and leaflets that aren't symmetrical, a propensity to come out with Rose Mosaic Virus symptoms when previously the rose was healthy enough to skip showing the RMV symptoms, stipules that are longer on certain canes than on others, clusters of areas of orange-colored canes and stems, flower petal crowding and lack of symmetry on previously symmetrical flowers, and finally, red thorns on a rose that normally has no red thorns. "I hope you _don't_ have this problem, Susan, but I personally suspect that you do, and I'm just thinking that it might turn out better if you're on the lookout now. The best person to address RRD questions to is Ann Peck (email address), the author of the rosegeek.com website." To be clear here: Jeri, I'm not _certain_ of anything. How could I be? I've never seen this rose and I've never grown this variety. But I personally suspect that yes or no on RRD might well be on the way to becoming more clear, by, say, April. I do hope the luck there is hugely better than my own with my Cornellia showing two of these same fall symptoms. Actually, I didn't see the third symptom Susan's rose appears to already have--red thorns--until the following spring. It's important to note that my experience is with Cornelia, not a Mamam Cochet of any version, and someone who knows about thorniness on Mamam Cochet could offer the best insight. I'm figuring that the low-thorns note at Antique Rose Emporium isn't a good sign, but perhaps the clone Susan has might have come from thornier stock than ARE's? The most important point is probably the length of Susan's own experience with the rose and what she knows as normal for that particular clone over the years. No one else has knowledge of that; Susan is the expert on her own rose. It's hard to see the black thorns in my poorly angled and lit picture (look upper middle-right near some yellowed leaflets), but at Garden Web you can see three pictures of my Cornelia at the point I first began to notice a sudden change (symptom 1) from a low-thorned to a high-thorned rose, and was wondering about (symptom 2) the black thorns that were suddenly visible only on a few canes. (The picture of a growth tip wasn't a worry to me, but in referring others to the condition of my rose at that point, I thought I ought to post a picture of a growth tip too.) Best wishes, Mary Here is a link that might be useful: Cornelia with the very earliest of RRD symptoms

Patrick,I can only share my experience in MD. Hopefully it will be better for you mom. I never grew climbing form of WMC, but bush form was not so successful in my garden. First, the spring flush always got severe case of botritis and balled. Then it was a long pause before next flush, which was destroyed by JBs anyway. The third (fall)flush again got botritis. I had WMC in my garden for 4 years and, I am not kidding, I got 5-6 opened blooms on it altogether. Everything else was balled or chewed up. These blooms were lovely. I had very similar experience with regular MC and Niles Cochet. In addition, all three needed regular spraying to keep leaves on. They were more BS prone then other 20+ different teas I grow or used to grow. It is not a location in the garden or my cultural practice. I have Mme Joseph Schwartz, Georgetown Tea and Safrano in the same places where Cochet family used to grow and all three are happy. Sorry for being pessimistic. Olga

Trish, your roses are beautiful. I never get tired of looking. Believe it or not I keep looking at it over and over . And Brittie, I love your rose MC Oh boy, and I look at Niles also and this makes it really tough. They all are gorgeous but I still have lots of time to think about it since I started only backyard. Front yard can wait for a while. And thank you all for the information. Phew! All that is said and done. My battery is about to die soon. Jin