hi cestrum, if any part of the carpet is synthetic it wont decompose properly and will stay there for a long time (maybe forever) and once it starts falling apart youll have bits of carpet and carpet fibres in the soil. 100% wool carpet will decompose though so if you have some then that's the way to go. you can also use a layer of cardboard instead which would be better than synthetic carpet. hope that helps

Yes Cestrum, I would have to agree with TG on this. Synthetics are not the way to go. It would be alright to use in a temporary fashion to suppress weed growth, but not as part of a permanent arangement.

Cheers,
Dee.

If the carpet is a wool-synthetic mix, and the synthetic part doesn't break down for a very long time, what would be the consequences of this, ie how would this be detrimental to the garden/plants?

If there is synthetic material in the carpet fibre, I cant see that breaking down very quickly. Synthetics, I believe, are petroleum based, so I guess you would have that leaching into your soil.

Are you doing a no dig garden, based on organic principles, or are you doing it cause it is easy and quick to start growing.

If organic principles are important to you I would ditch the synthetic carpet idea.

Happy no-digging.

Hi Popi
I'm going no-dig because it's the quickest way for me to kill the lawn before it kills me! As a general rule, I prefer to avoid chemicals but the grass problem has reached the stage where I'm keen to use whatever I can get my hands on. I've been using cardboard and newspaper but have run out of both. (It's surprisingly difficult to get cardboard boxes from the local shops.) Now I've received some free wool carpet which is simply fantastic--such a breeze to use compared with cardboard and newspaper, and it creates a beautifully thick barrier. Problem is that I don't have enough to cover all the grass, so am considering getting some free carpet but suspect that I may not be able to get a woollen one, or that whoever is giving it away may not even know what it's made of. I wouldn't use a synthetic blend in the veggie patch, but would consider it along the nature strip and along the front fence where I intend to plant some tough drought-hardy groundcovers. I just want to ensure that using a synthetic blend won't ruin the soil and kill/stunt anything planted in it.

Yes I know what you mean...I am doing a vege garden and I have gone from being buried in the house with endless piles of newspaper, to now, not having enough, cause I'm doing the garden. Its driving me mad. And I just cant get enough mulch.

I had a little giggle thinking of you putting carpet all over your front yard, the neighbours looking on thinking what a nut you are !

I live on acres...and I have come to the conclusion that it is actually easier to mow, than to have garden beds, or bushland. I have plenty of bushland, mind you, its the weeds there, that keep me busy.

I wouldnt take the synthetic carpet, it might end up being a pain as it wont degrade properly, and that could be a problem.

Happy getting rid of your grass.

Popi

The neighbours are gardeners themselves and know what I'm doing--it's the passersby who are going to do a double-take :-) Funny thing is that my block is barely over one-eighth of an acre--unlike your acreage--but the mowing (and trying to cut the grass in places the mower won't reach) in the subtropical humidity has just about driven me crazy these past 5 months. (LOL--only 5 months; others have been doing it for *decades*.) Before next summer I want the lawn reduced by about 75%, leaving me just a rectangle that I can edge and mow in 2 hours at most. (Friends convinced me that I should leave a little bit of lawn--I was going to get rid of it all initially.)

Have a read of Esther Deans book, the originator of the no-dig garden. Is a nice to think of her doing all that in her north shore garden all those years ago. People must have thought she was a bit nutty.

5 months - thats nothing in mowing language, I've built up huge muscles on my arms from mowing for that last 6 years. Its character building !

Mind you I love winter, then the grass doesnt grow.

Yeah, five months is pathetic I know, but I've never had to mow before in my life, and not in the subtropics. It takes about 8 hours over three or four days to do it all. (My block is small, but so is the house so there's a lot of grass.)

Plus I think it's a complete waste of time. I'm happy to water, weed and mulch--can see the benefit of that--but think that all that grass is useless and resent having to expend so much effort and sweat on it. (And don't get me started on the line edger!)

As for character building, if you could see the expression on my face you'd worry about the sort of character it was building!

You are turning a problem into a solution, that is a good way to think. Also very permacultury.

I agree with you, grass is a waste of space. Grow organic veges, and be healthy. Get some chooks and you'll be set.

All the best to you my friend.

I must be missing something here - you have a 1/8 acre, and intend to reduce the amount of lawn by 75% giving you a small rectangle that only takes you 2 hours to mow and edge. FGS what are you using to cut the grass? Nail scissors? I have an acre of land, 3/4 of it is grassed and i mow it in just over an hour, every 2 or 3 weeks. Granted I use a ride on. I have someone come in and brush cut the garden edges every few weeks. Am I just not fussy enough?

Regardless of that, I DO think your idea of turning much of it into no dig garden is excellent. I would not, however, use a synthetic carpet underneath. For starters it will certainly help stop the weeds growing through it, BUT, when you get weeds in the upper part, that put their roots down through the synthetic backing on the carpet, you will have a difficult time getting them out, just as happens with weedmat. THEN, when you finally decide you want to get rid of the horrid stuff, you will have to pull up the whole garden to get it out.
That's my opinion anyway, and now I think I will just wander out and see if there is something I am missing out on in the way of grass care..............

It does take a horrendously long time for a relatively small patch. I'm using an electric mower, which is cumbersome. (It's like using a vacuum cleaner; one hand is always pushing the cord away.) Also, it's rare that I can just walk up and down in rows, because the mower just doesn't cut all the grass properly. A vacuuming action is needed (ie stand in place and push it forwards and back, then move forward a little and repeat.) It's like using a manual mower!

Plus the grass catcher is small; if I haven't mowed for three or so weeks, I can't even mow 2 square metres without having to empty it. (Which means tramping all the way to the compost bin at the back of the yard and then back again.) Plus the awkward areas, where it's hard to turn around (esp. with a cord). And my right hand is sore afterwards, because I have to push the mower solely with it (the other one holding the cord away) *and* keep pressing the safety switch (or the engine cuts out). Mowing an acreage on a ride-on mower where you have free movement is no comparison!

My lawnmower is suited to the area of grass I intend to have, not the larger area I have now. That's why I chose electric over petrol (hate petrol), and why I hope to reduce the grassed area before the lawnmower gives up.

And then there's the line edger. Last attempt (I checked the clock) it took 40min of fiddling with the line (winding; rewinding; then trying to reassemble it so that it would let the line unwind) to get one metre of edging done. It's electric too--a Ryobi that takes a 2mm line--and a piece of crap. I'll just have to bite the bullet and get a petrol one with a thicker line so that I can do the edging in one day--one arvo even--as my neighbours do. Using it is an exercise in frustration and wasted time and effort, and even when I reduce the lawn to pocket-handkerchief size it won't be able to do the job. It's just a piece of rubbish.

So that's why it takes so long, and why I'm dead set against having lawn.

I take your point about the difficulty of pulling weeds thru weedmat, because I had to do it in a small bed here. Didn't keep the weeds down but made it damn hard to pull them out.

Hmmmm ..... so my suggestion of nail clippers isn't so stupid. Perhaps you could try them, and a bucket for the clippings. Sounds like it might be more relaxing! I'm pretty lazy when it comes to grass, and the fact that our neighbour is somewhat excessive just makes me more dogmatic about NOT keeping ours neat. We don't have lawns, just grass that is green when the weather permits. The yellow flowers seem like an improvement to me - LOL

Well, I just have to make one more comment here about brushcutters. I HATE the plastic cord, I only use those weed whacker blades, those plastic ones that you buy 4 to a packet. They are FANTASTIC never have to hassle around with" fiddling with the line (winding; rewinding; then trying to reassemble it so that it would let the line unwind) to get one metre of edging done."

I use it for edges, and grass on banks, that I cant get the mower to. It also does lantana, and weeds such as that.

Dont like black weedmat either, it is hard to pull weeds out of, and its there forever.

Cestrum, I am sorry you are having such an anguished time in your garden, with the grass and all.

It's a combination of inadequate tools and negative attitude towards something I consider totally useless (ie grass). Mind you, all this effort isn't creating a manicured lawn. It's just grass--pasture, I think of it!--cut rough and ready, with tufts of long grass all along the fenceline and around the buldings, and a mat of grass sprawling over all the paths (too low for the mower to cut).

Still, I'm grateful that at last I have my own piece of land and a place where, once the beds are created, I can start planting out my collection of potted shrubs, trees and climbers. I can't wait!

Popi, I'm interested in your brushcutter. Can it cut cut the grass along buildings? Is it petrol-powered? What make/model is it? Might be just what I'm after.

Cestrum

My brushcutter is just a normal old petrol one, ryobi, I think. Its the blades that are the bit I was raving on about.
(Yipee its raining !) Dont you love rain.

Yes it can cut grass along buildings. Go to a mower shop, I am sure they would have the blades, they are plastic, in a pack of four. They are called weedwacker. Cost about $25. So you could try it out and see how you go. The blades fit onto all brushcutters, I believe. They are easy to fit on, you just have to remove that casing that holds the plastic cable, that keeps jamming up and driving you insane.

All the best.

I bet your older Ryobi is better than my new one. (Saw the same electric model as a giveaway on the Brisbane Freecycle board--engine had started smoking. I can't get mine running long enough to smoke!)

There is a specialist mower shop near me, so I'll drop by and see what they have. Blades definitely sound better than wire.

I know for a fact that the old type hair underfelt was treated with deildren I am not sure about carpet but if that carpet was placed over old deildren treated underfelt it could also be contaminated.

Keith

So, not recommended for the veggie patch after all (sigh)?

I am using really old woollen blankets on parts of my vege patch in progress. They are about 40 years old, and a bit moth eaten and scrappy, but I have put them over grass to kill it.

It looks rather pretty as well.

Maybe you could scour St Vinnies and see if thats a goer.

Thanks, popi, I'll keep an eye out when I'm bargain-hunting.

Hello Cestrum

The synthetic carpet would be good for paths and between rows in your vege garden. I put some down 10 - 12 years ago at the side of the house and covered with small river pebbles and a few weeds have only just started to appear this past few years. I had my wheelie bins at that side too and was sometimes a problem wheeling them when they were full or heavy( hard to roll on pebbles) but otherwise has been great.

Maybe your mower needs the blades sharpened or replaced. Mine was great for years and I didn't notice any problems until my dad used it one day and said he could do better with scissors. Was great after that.

By the way that mower lasted me more than 10 years, now have a new one.

Hope this helps.

Popi, those plastic blades for you brush cutter are called Weedwakka. Note the spelling. I use them also and find they go much further and are a lot easier to replace.

Anyone interested should google up Weedwakka and order them over the internet as I do. You can by them in bulk (50) and they cost around $1.50 each.

What about you borrow a goat from someone? For the grass not the carpet. A goat would probably eat the carpet too.

Robert, I've checked the Weedwakka website and they sound fantastic ... except that my brushcutter has a curved shaft and therefore can't have the blades fitted to them. I've therefore bitten the bullet and bought a petrol-powered brushcutter with metal blades. Now I just have to try not to set the house alight with the sparks caused by the blades hitting the concrete path (operator error, of course).

Re the mower: my neighbour said casually yesterday that if I simply had a petrol-powered mower the job would be done in a fraction of the time. And he's right! There's too much grass for an electric mower, but I'll persevere in the hope that I'll soon be able to reduce the lawn area to a size that is more suited to the mower (and to me). There's nothing wrong with its blades, it's just designed for a small lawn.

Believe me, I've considered renting a goat--many times! Maybe I should buy one myself and rent it out to others in a similar predicament :-)

Goats are a bit of a pain, they never seem to eat in the fashion YOU want them to. They are not neat eaters.

That's my experience with a goat, anyway. He was a nut, just wanted to be with me all the time and would be so fickle about what he ate.

He died, after eating a lot of lantana, I suspect it poisoned him. Then I had to dig an enormous hole in the garden to bury him.

Funny days, he was fun...but hard work. We cried when he died.

Robert, thanks for the tip about the the Weedwakkka blades, I will buy on the internet. In the shops I can get 4 of them for about $25 ! I think they are fantastic !

Nature has a different time scale to us mere mortals. Remeber the analogy of the 24 hour clock for the past life of the earth - humans appeared seconds before midnight. Synthetic fibres are not indestructible; they just take longer than natural fibres, but that's nothing in the history of the planet perspective. If synthetic carpet does the job and you can't find a better alternative, use it - it will break down eventually. Otherwise you'll spend the rest of your life worrying that your great to the power 57 grandchildren will inherit a plastic planet. Forget it - the human race won't last that long. There is more uranium under the surface layers of this planet than the greens would care to acknowledge; but if we don't bother it, it won't bother us.
Nature is the greatest homeostatic system that ever existed. Trust it, but work with it. Hear the doomsayers. but put what they say into perspective.
Tony

Do we take the same attitude to wards plastic bags? Lets just keep cucking them in the garbage and killing off species other than our own? After all humans won't be round long enough to worry about whether there are any dolphins left?
The main problem with the carpet not degrading (in our lifetime) is the weed roots that become firmly enmessed in the carpet and can't be pulled out, just like the weed mat that I have just pulled up and will NEVER use again. Thick layers of newspaper and cardboard are by far the best option, and these are by faqr the best option and these are readily available.

Well, I've decided it would be safest to avoid carpet in the veggie patch, and to use wool carpet (or anything woollen that I can get) on other areas. So far I've used the carpet on a small area, and it's been a superb weed suppressor. Newspaper seems to be the weakest; a narrow area that was hard to mow, and where the grass grew thigh-high in areas, was mulched with newspaper (thick sections taken from Saturday's Age) with a thick layer of sugarcane mulch on top (about 20 cm high). Alas, onion grass has started to grow through this thick mulch. Even worse, I found that when I pulled it out (gently, trying to get the bulb out too), the onion grass seemed to grow back with increased vigour--it took only a week to grow back as thickly as it had grown in the previous two months! I wish I'd had the carpet when I was preparing that section ...

I just bought a house and the lady used synthetic carpet everywhere. don't do it ... I have the biggest freakin mess in my garden, I want to cry. I can't dig, there is improper drainage. To make things worse, she tried using it to kill the weeds. The weeds still grew right threw the carpet binding the soil to the carpet. The weeds can't be pulled, only the carpet can. Each piece now weighs 10 to over several hundred pounds.
It is a disaster.

what a great adventure you are going on - hope you find many more useful things to do with those hours saved from mowing.
Re the carpet ? I don;t know, but cardboard, you could probably find more sources.
Sometimes smaller shopping centres are more user friendly. I know where I work there is an alleyway servicing fruit shop, restaurants, supermarket, bottleshop, all tossing out heaps of it so much that the industrial bins are emptied twice a week - just go ask a few places and be prepared to fill up your car

My husband has used recycled carpet in his garden for 3 years now. At first he laid the carpet as a "whole room" chunk maybe 10'x12' if he was lucky. Otherwise he laid strips.
You must overlap about 6" as weeds/grass will grow in the seams otherwise. No other topping necessary. He would then cut holes in it large enough to plant the veg. plant (about 4" and use an auger that is 2' long that fits onto his hand drill which then drills the hole for the plant. He uses any carpet he can get his hands on, wool or synthetic. Mostly synthetic. Over the last 3 years some of the carpeting has begun to deteriorate and no longer keeps weeds away. We know this at the beginning of the season, not during the "weed" season. So it is pulled and new is laid down. No problem with any "petroleum byproduct" from decomposition, Not hard. We have since gone to raised gardens, with only our sprawling melons and corn planted in the ground with carpeting. If the raccoons and blackbirds would only stay out now!

It's been ages since I've dropped by but I can't believe this old thread has been resurrected!
Five years on and the carpet has worked well enough to allow the shrubs and trees to grow and start generating their own weed-suppressing mulch by shedding leaves. However, in the early days the weeds would sometimes germinate on top of the carpet, and I swear the onion weed would sometimes germinate through it! You have to kill that onion weed by whatever means possible: I selected a section and kept weeding it every week. A bit obsessive perhaps, but if you choose to use weed killer you'll have to apply it several times: once will not kill those monsters! Carpet was well worth using though, so long as you mulch heavily with newspapers underneath it to suppress most of the weeds from growing through it.
Hi Alison, *very* long time no see :-) Years ago you sent me some brugmansia cuttings but you would not believe the brug seedlings I have growing now--two double-pinks among them. I'll post a fews pics over in the Oz Garden Gallery if I can remember how ;-)

I have been planning to cover my grass/weed yard with carpet and then mulch over the top. On one hand I’m told it will be OK, on the other I am told the carpet will smother the soil and my few trees and shrubs will die. It’s all becoming too hard! Sigh!