Since I am trying to decide which vegetables I am going to winter sow, I read over this thread. I have had some experience with winter sown, indoor grown and store bought tomatoes. I have a small garden of raised beds, due to a lot of shade from neighboring trees, so I can only grow a few tomato plants. I did try them winter sown and they did great. Germinated, and were hardier and healthier, stockier. However, they did develop fruit later than I'd ever had them. So I switched back to store bought tomato plants. Which seems to work out better for me for just a few plants. I have done indoor grown tomato seedlings and those did the best for me, because I could put out really large size tomato plants and had earlier and therefore bigger yields for my tomatoes. The only trouble with that is that it was a LOT of work. [g] So I'm not going back to doing that. I've decided this year, I'm going to try winter sowing tomatoes again. However, I plan on using season extenders to try to help them out. I may even experiment with a store bought organic tomato plant from my favorite nursery and use season extending for that too and compare. I have used Wall of Waters in the past and it really made a difference in speeding up growth. I may think of trying something more than that if I have the time, like a small poly tunnel or some such. I would really like to increase my tomato yields. As for other veggies to winter sow, I think I am going to spring sow pepper plants, cukes, zucchini, basil and beans and winter sow onions and the brassica family, dill and parsley. Peas tend to rot if you leave them wet too long, so I'm going to direct sow those in early March. Would love to hear anyone else's strategies with growing veggies and herbs.

mad - sorry I didn't answer in Feb! Chill means it just doesn't get cold enough and stay cold long enough to make the trees go into hibernation and then burst with Spring. That's my opinion anyway - kinda like tulips - they have to be be chilled in order for them to bloom here and then our heat knocks them out so they won't come back next year. deanna - I have had great success with every pepper I have planted - from seed or seedling. One year my Corno di Toro were so prolific and I was so tired of canning, freezing and drying them, and begging the neighbors to take some!, that I ripped up the bushes, they just wouldn't stop. I think they even kept making peppers in the compost pile! As for tomatoes - check out Tomatopalooza. Hundreds of varieties. I'm growing 50 different ones this year and in past years another 50 different than those. I stay away from the hybrids (developed anywhere, even for NC) so that I can collect and share seeds of the open pollinated (heirloom) ones. The flavor range is amazing, and the colors on a plate are works of art. I do use insecticidal soap and pick off the hornworms. All of mine are caged because I've found slugs and stink bugs have more access to them when allowed to sprawl. However, my DH swears by Rutgers. Just the right size, red of course, and determinate so one week of picking is all he has to do for canning. I use other tomatoes for sauce and ketchup, paste and drying, for tomato preserves and for slicing fresh on a grilled portobello. So many flavors and uses - you have to try them all! Nancy the nancedar

Thanks for the info. I browsed the Starks fruit tree website today and they said fall planting is fine, but I agree with you all that it's probably safer to wait until early spring for bareroot trees. Is there another website you all like better to order your fruit trees from? My garden is fairly big (at least to me coming from a small backyard garden previously) 60'x40' with full sun from sunrise to sunset on the south side of our three acre lot. It is fenced to keep deer out. I was planning to plant dwarf trees in just the corners (maybe not the south western corner due to the possibility of that tree casting the most shade) using the high density planting method which I had good success with in my previous garden in Calif. I've been tracking shade and the seasons in general on our property for one year to get a sense for other planting areas too. Right now only the southern half of the fenced garden is planted (about 1200sqft), the eastern half is empty (or full) with unlimited potential (another 1200sqft), except for a row of rasperries along the south fence. I don't think competition for water is an issue as my veggies are in four raised beds 4' wide by 10' long. They are 5 feet away from the fence across from a octagonal strawberry patch about 150sqft. The garden is kind of potager style planted close together (hodge podge sq ft gardening) with flowers mixed in. It's lovely to me and slowly becoming my dream garden. BUT, to throw all of that out the window, I am so interested in so many fruit varieties that maybe I should just do a small orchard next to the veggie garden but there'd be no fence around it. Will the deer eat the fruit trees? My aussie shep. mix dog does a pretty good job of keeping them away, actually it's her mission in life (w/lots of encouragement & treats from me when she chases them away:) We are on our own private well and to conserve I would like to water the trees with grey water and rain barrel water (that's a whole 'nother topic I know!). Anyway, now that I've written a book....one more question....what varieties of fruit trees (preferably disease resistant) can you not live without? Thanks for your time! You guys are always awesome & helpful. Charlene Here is a link that might be useful: high density planting

If the idea is to save money, and especially if you're doing containers, I agree that herbs are your best bet. Potatoes and squash won't save a lot of cash. Okra and eggplant might be good bets. I especially like the latter because they produce well through the hot summer. Tomatoes and peppers turn off in the fiercest months of heat, though you might get a fall crop. Summer greens? Well, they say that they are "heat tolerant", but that phrase has a different meaning in Texas than elsewhere, and I haven't had a lot of success nurturing at least kale in July and August. Of course, if you're planting in June, we're talking about harvest in September and beyond, so it's mainly going to be about survival.