Why is jojomzz - posting the identical picture to fivebrowncats? What's going on? Tulsarose is a poster on here who answered the original post, not a suggested identity for the plant. And what jojomzz hasn't said is that this plant is growing in Malaysia, ie tropical, so not Pyracantha or Bearberry. Double posting causes confusion, especially when vital info is left out. Here is a link that might be useful: Same question

daisygirl Actually it's Grieg Farm (I think) and they're more in Red Hook than Rhinebeck. I've misplaced my list and can't find it. They changed the name to Grandiflora's and now sell nursery goods. Actually, I just googled it and they're listed under Grandifloria, 144 Pitcher Lane, Red Hook. Phantom might have them too, and I'd rather buy there actually. They have been better with advice and also have a better selection including natives. I just remember seeing a bearberry at Grieg's Farm and liking it. I once knew relatives of the family who own Grieg's Farm and there were hayrides every Halloween up there. Candy

Ummm....I suppose it's just possible that it's some variant of prostrate abelia with pink flowers, but this isn't a nursery that tends to have anything unusual, and they had a lot of it for quite awhile. I do know that I always pass on abelia in the nursery! The leaves are neither dark nor glossy. They are somewhat darker than what you see here, however. I can't remember how the flowers look, except that they're small, pink and very visible. There's no orange throat. They also don't have all that extra "stuff" I see around pictures of abelia bloom. It has a low growing, arching habit. It used to sit in an ornamental pot on my 2nd story porch railing. It arched out and down. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the new growth *is* bronzy. I know that some of the leaves turn dark red in the fall. I'll go look at it again if it ever stops raining. I'm frustated that it isn't something straightforward. We're putting in a shrubby groundcover, and I wanted to convince my husband to use this instead of bearberry, because the bloom is more noticeable.

Tx. I just bookmarked that. I know you've listed them before, but my mind was far from the possibilities at that time. I was thinking deeply yesterday while meditating on the garden. I thought from the beginning when it was just yard/prairie land mostly with dandelion, dock, crab grass, Bermuda, nutsedge and wild onions, chives and garlic and a whole bunch of Johnson grass. Since then everything has changed. I've studied, but most of my knowledge has come from you and others willingness to share experience on this forum. Absolutely priceless. And ya'll have repeated yourselves countless times. I suppose it's the love (obsession) for gardening. And for many, it's the drive for a better world (Mr. Coleman - case in point and you, too). I had virtually zero hope spanning that awful canyon of the last decade. I was stymied beneath a tyrannical dragon, abject poverty common in rural Oklahoma, and constantly smashed by painful disabilities. Because of Larry, I believed I could despite the pain. I could, despite my inability to function normally. If Larry could, I could. He probably doesn't know that. Maybe he does. In fact, I didn't realize it until I just wrote it. How powerful we all are without realizing it for varying differences. Since that time, ya'll have seen me through back surgery and its affects. I giggle when remembering showing up at the garden party shortly after surgery or, before that, when Lisa stopped by to give me plants LOL. I was so very sick. Very sick. But, Carol had back surgery, too. It never stopped her! With that, I refused to let mine stop me. Some have sent me seeds so easy to grow, so wonderful in flavor I could never live without them in the garden or the memories of those behind them. And when I couldn't afford the stupid stamps, they mailed them to me anyway. I promised myself to pay it forward in the very altruistic spirit intrinsic to most who garden. Were they good people before gardening or did gardening make them better people? I wonder! Many have given me advice, inspired hope, provided emotional validation for the gardening crazies and served various cautions and warnings on a silver platter that would obliterate years of hard-earned lessons. It's up to me to take them off that platter. And these two silly plants is probably another. lol For principle or politics, for survival or self-awareness or whatever reason that got me plugging plants and seeds into dirt, my only hope rested in growing my own food. I had to believe it fate. I couldn't even afford a stupid $4 bag of nitrogen. This land we moved onto had all the tools, buckets and a plethora of plant pots and a very large empty back yard without cables, plumbing or anything beneath. It was as if it was waiting for me to start digging! For those who are inclined: the house had all the spiritual materials that I would ever need to read and study including expensive interlinear bibles in English, Greek and Hebrew that were left behind and much more including a complete English translated copy of the dead sea scrolls. And much more. I guess the previous tenant had given up on gd and left Him behind, but gd had not given up on me. I'm still using the thirty-year old hoes, hay forks, tree pruners and hand tools we discovered in the old garden shed that is now falling over. I refuse to replace them. Every time I get a splinter from a battered old handle, it reminds me where I started and what I was gifted. Of course, I would quietly mumble because I couldn't afford to paint over them forgetting the gratitude. Eventually, the old tools worked the soil in their own perfect way. Their heads pop off the handle in the process. Frustrating. (They are now in tow with Bill to work so they can be welded) I even have a weed eater, but I must stop every foot, dismantle the twine housing and untangle the twine. Slow and tedious just like everything else. Sometimes it's easier and faster to trim by hand, but trying to make the best of it is important. In my neighborhood, we have the best house on the block. Perspective! I kept in mind what my mother used to say, "The smallest rudder can move the biggest boat, but only if it's moving." I know my situation isn't something she would even dream of in her upper-middle class ways, but I know her love for down-home goodness and gardening shadowed her coming out of Arkansas into Oklahoma before I was born against her desires. Even she would admit, "You can take the girl out of Arkansas, but you cannot take the Arkansas out of the girl." She always had a deep love for 'forest gardening' which research proves is a part of permacutlure. I think she's one of many that never learned to give up chasing that false sense of prestige, pride and power to really hone in on what they truly love. You know. What really matters in the end. She never really taught me anything, but to ride a horse. Seriously. But like most parents, she was always an example - either good or bad. In that, I highly recommend the priority switch. It's worth letting go of the crap and just digging in! But that's just my experience. As for the nitrogen supplement, I didn't know it wasn't necessary. I couldn't afford soil testing until last year. Instead, I scraped and saved to buy my first 2 pounds of red wiggler worms. Easy purchase for most, a major financial decision for me. These were promptly massacred by my inexperience. Then, a friend in Minnesota spent hours one week digging up her yard worms as a replacement. The descending generations of those worms continue to thrive unhindered by me. Approximately 25lbs of worms produce my nitrogen and more. I'll never need purchase nor apply synthetic nitrogen. My own struggles had forged a healthier path as I learned to garden organically. Today, I have bunnies - a nice strategy to provide manure in a city residence. The miniscule success resulting from my early garden sparked overwhelming feels of security. In those days, security didn't come often. When it did, it was hard-won and fleeting. It was not a reservoir at any time for which one could capitalize fully as I had experienced in the past. Like .. Seize the moment! No. Security was more of a tease. It was only a slight trickle that would pass our way and most was imaginative like a reprieve from an unending blight. Enjoy it while you can. In those moments, despair lost its edge. I realized gardening was the best way to obtain those fleeting moments of security. I couldn't change life, but I could change that soil. I could work with it. I could grow food and even pretty flowers. Unlike me, that soil could prosper. And I could be proud when it did. (I had no idea this would take years. LOL) Gardening and Oklahoma Gardenweb swept away a slapping abusive social existence while offering reprieve from ghastly desperation. Instead, gardening offered a formidable presence of peace (aside from my anger at life). There's a special word for this that encompasses the full context of its meaning out of all languages on earth. It means peace including healing, health, prosperity, sanity and abundant peace. That word is "shalowm" in Hebrew. This is true despite any religious ideology. Pure etomology. There's no better word to describe effect of gardening than Shalowm. In the meanwhile, this forum became a beacon of light in the midst of much confusion and lack of understanding. Ya'll didn't need to know that I had holes in my socks or bungee cords holding the truck together. Nor did you care that I could not fashion a garden in the most aesthetically pleasing way with purchased wood shavings or specialized containers and irrigation. You didn't care what gd I believed in or that I believed in gd at all. You only cared that I believe in that soil and in the guaranteed fruition from proper nurturing, loving and tending the soil. Even today, I still have doubts in myself, but that soil .... ya'll know. The depression-easing gardening stuff is scientifically proven. It, literally, is stowed away in compost soils making us to yearn dig, till, sow, water, stress out and repeat, repeat, repeat. That obsession became etched onto my brain and tilled into the soil of soul from the very first compost pile. I have been awash with an intrinsic earnestness to recreate. And repeat. As I see the snow outdoors and impatiently wait for its thaw, I realize my impatience is born of this desire. It can only happen in spring and early summer and in passing during fall (if we have a fall LOL. Heck, if we have a spring for that matter)._______ One is not a writer because of a study of grammar or a desire to write a compelling story. A writer is one who cannot refrain from it. So, apologies if you find these writings annoying. I cannot help it and I don't see any need to file away my ramblings when someone .. even one, might enjoy them. If you do, it is my gift to you. I could never repay this forum for its gifts. Houzz or no! haaha