Disappointing that I cannot grow any of the carnivores in a shady bog, but I have found a new love. Aroids! Not all of them will grow in bogs, but the ones that do, include some of the alocasias and colocasias, which are what you would call "marginal" plants. Susan

You're right to worry about planting an Australian Tree Fern/Cyathea cooperi, as it will most definitely get too tall for your purposes. I'd suggest you get a slower growing tree fern, Dicksonia antarctica instead, which would take 15 years or more to get above the wall. Other very reliable shade growers would include Foxtail Asparagus, Asparagus densiflora 'Meyers', or the dwarf ground cover Heavenly Bamboo, Nandina domestica 'Harbour Dwarf'. Bergenia crassifolia would also thrive here, as would Clivia miniata. If you are willing to bait for snails, I personally love the look of Ligularia tussilaginea 'Aurea-maculata', which has cool succulent like round leaves spotted with gold, and bright yellow daisy flowers in late summer into early winter. Daphne odora 'marginata' is another variegated shrub with fragrant winter blooms that likes shade. Another yellow variegated plant that lights up a shady spot is the Variegated Shell Ginger, Alpinia zerumbet 'variegata', especially if you like a more tropical look. You could also use winter blooming Sasanqua camellias in this spot, quite a range of bloom colors, and they often start blooming in late October/early November. As well, various of the Abutilons, or Flowering Maples would thrive in this spot, and range from dwarf shrubby types to taller shrubs, and will bloom nearly year round here in the SF Bay Area. I'd suggest getting rid of the Fortnight Lily, which is a shy bloomer in less than full sun, and often looks rather messy with lots of dead leaves that accumulate over time, and are difficult to prune.

Well my DH wins the prize. He hasn't divorced me or threatened to take away my spade, yet. I don't know if all of you saw the photos that Jim (Idiothe) posted of Sheila and I with our kayaks and bikes and the car completely loaded with hostas? Well in order to do that we loaded all our gear in our boats. It is my hubby's car. (both our names are on it, but it is his vehicle 98% of the time.) I drive the used Mommy van that gets used as a truck for hauling mulch and whatever. But the kayak rack is mine, and I can't load boats on my van due to a bad shoulder. So..... he is very particular about his car. He hates me putting the rack on, he will not drive on gravel, etc. So with my bad shoulder, and the heavy boats, I couldn't lift my end of Sheil's up very well. So the J cradles kept twisting and falling down. I finally found a man to help us. We finally got it loaded, made it home... and there are dents all over the top of the car. Bad dents, like really big hail. :( Like will never come out. I feel awful, I do. Whats done is done, and he isn't holding it against me. But he is so sad. And I am too. But I did get all my hostas home! So he wins the hosta hubby of the year award. I need to get those trophies made, don't I? Anyone want to nominate their Wife for the Hosta Wife of the year award?

I'm a different zone than you are, but I have a lot of shade too. Some plants I have in shade are: hydrangea azalea dwarf azalea astilbe columbine hellebore pulmonaria hakone grass (nice bright color!) bleeding hearts monkshood foxglove lily of the valley tiarella heuchera viburnum hostas, hostas, hostas, lol! (lots of beauties out there!) solomon's seal geraniums plumbago ferns sweet woodruff ajuga Some of the above are in beds that do get some morning sun. Do you get any sun at all? And can you plant spring bulbs that can bloom before the oak trees leaf out? Shade gardens can be incredibly lush and beautiful, places of peace that refresh. Okay, I know, corny, lol, but I do believe that. You just have to learn what can grow in the shade, accept that these will grow while sun-lovers just won't, and learn to appreciate the beauty of those plants. :) Dee P.S. Agree with the above - go to a real nursery! :)