Does anyone have any ideas on saving our tobacco hornworm moths? In November, indoors? We've been told by a butterfly expert that they WON'T eat indoors, and they don't seem to be eating, despite: * a hummingbird feeder, with official butterfly food, and we glued a fake petunia on the end of the tube, so it hopefully looked kinda like something they'd try to eat from. If they used it, we were asleep and didn't see it. They sleep all day. * I've brought in some petunias from the window box (amazingly, they're still blooming the day after Thanksgiving!) * I've put liquid official butterfly food in a clean washcloth, nudged one up to it, and it chose to climb further up on the washcloth, last night. (2/3 of his/her right wings are gone, so he'll never hover again.) * I bought them some Stargazer lilies, (probably not their proper food) * They're in the guest bedroom (so the cats don't get at them again) where there's a Mandevilla flower -- big pink flowers, petunia-shaped. I'm going to try mounting the hummingbird feeder so that they reach it from the Mandevilla pot, where they may feel comfortable, blending in with the soil. Don't know if being on soil is good for them, either. But what do I do with them? This is late November; they can't be active in the usually 40+ degree temperatures out there, and there's very little blooming out there for them to eat. (They came indoors because, as caterpillars, they were on a tomato plant that we brought inside when it was likely to frost overnight, and we let them and their 6 sibs eat it ALL up. Most of their sibs crawled away after we put the pot back outside when the weather warmed up, and the tomato was out of leaves). At least these 2 pupated in the pot and came out 3 days ago. They will probably die soon, since they're probably not getting anything to eat. Funny--as caterpillars, they ate all day -- except when they saw us watching. Eventually they lost their fear of us, and ate when we were looking at them. Now, they want out! Little do they know. Another interesting thing: wild moths do not let you pick them up. These don't seem to have the usual fear of me. BEFORE they lost their ability to fly, when their wings had had many hours or a whole day to dry, they let me pick them up -- maybe they remember something from their past lives. Anyway, we're going to crazy lengths to try to give them their normal (2-week?) adult lifespan. Can anyone propose other means to get them to eat? Thanks!

Sandy, I greatly enjoyed reading your last post. Your attitude, insight and desire to learn more has taken you well beyond a hobbyist level. With that you will have an endless new world of questions, understanding and knowledge spread before you to explore and enjoy. And that new knowledge gained will greatly benefit the Lepidopteran species you study and the folks you share it with. Joining and taking an active role in a local group of Lepidopterists will make all of that happen much faster, and is something that anybody who really wants to learn more should do. I agree it takes strong personal ethics when you travel to foreign countries and find new to you species just begging to be reared and studied. They are not a problem on longer stays as you could do so while there even in your hotel room. But when its time to come back home and you still have livestock in tow is when "that" decision raises its ugly head. Unfortunately I know of even professional Lepidopterists who have stowed away livestock to bring home, and gotten away with it. That is nothing but laziness on their part because it is just not that hard to do so legally usually if you know the regulations of the country you are in and those of US Customs. Naturally, any livestock brought home must be eventually euthanized rather than released, so doing your studies, making written notes and taking lots of pictures while there on the leps home turf is easily the best choice for anyone but serious Lepidopterists who have a valid need for reference material brought back home. As for your Morphos, technically to be legally in this country, even dead, dried specimens should be under a US import permit, including those specimens incorporated into native art. However, few foreign countries bother to regulate Lepidoptera at all, and US Customs rarely enforces the regs for Lepidopteran art even if caught when coming home and going through customs with them. They have bigger fish to fry, so I would not worry about them at all. Individual specimens for scientific research are a different story, and should ALWAYS be under permit. I got a chuckle out of your comment that I was from the "other side". There is no doubt at all that I am on the other side from what is the norm here on this forum, and I am not offended by your comment at all. Being from the dark side does make posting here quite difficult for me usually though. My intent in being here at all is to offer some of the perspectives from that side as well as the much deeper knowledge gained from being a part of it while trying not to offend the many folks here who seem to be so easily offended. Its really a balancing act for me that often leaves me biting my tongue and not replying to some threads at all, only giving partial answers to others and rarely posting what the stark truth is because many here simply couldnt handle it. I know Im not always successful even though I do put a lot of thought into my posts. So I am sure I do offend some folks and can only hope that doesnt cause anyone to stop posting. Hopefully it will all come out OK in the wash. If not I can always find something else to do with my time, and Id much rather do that than run anyone off this forum. ------ APHIS This APHIS thing has left me really perplexed. Mainly because I do not fully understand what drives it as it pertains to Lepidoptera I guess. On the cover, as it applies to Lepidoptera, it looks like total foolishness right out of the bleeding heart liberal La La Land and regulations that I would personally fight. I always took Lepidopteran regulations very serious when I was actively studying Lepidoptera, not so much because of the legalities but mostly because of personal ethics AND believing they had a valid purpose. I was very well versed on all of those regulations, stayed current on them and ALWAYS obtained permits when required. But trust me, I did serious knock-down dragout battles with US Customs more than once over them because I was right and could prove it and they were wrong. So I plan to do some heavy research into APHIS, eventually to the point of calling their contact person for a discussion to get to the bottom of it. Its probably pretty certain that I wont agree with it entirely as most of the regulations on Lepidoptera are full of holes with real world reality commonly left out. But the last thing we want to do on this forum is give people bad information, especially information that involves legalities. Then each can decide for themselves how they will follow the regulations. Will take some time with the health issues looming, but when I fully understand it Ill post the findings on the forum so hopefully we will all understand it in laymans terms. Larry

It definitely was a Pipevine Swallowtail. Had one in yard today and was able to get a close look--although it didn't linger long in one place like the monarch does. I remembered that my Birds and Blooms books also have BF pics and with that and my binoculars I was able to make a positive ID. I also had a Red Admiral earlier today and yesterday a Painted Lady!! Can you tell I am excited?!!! Also, thanks Misssherry for recommending the books. I found both at Barnes and Nobles and decided on the Lifecycles of BF by Burris and Richards. Loved the other one and it's on my list for next time. (Might have gotten a better price at Amazon but couldn't wait!) Then I'll have to have the David Wagner book, I'm sure! Thanks everyone for all the great info!

Be sure to try out the binoculars before you buy. Not all binoculars fit all faces. This is why you should buy them from a store instead of on the internet. Be aware that any time you increase magnification you also increase the magnification of any hand shakes or tremors. I sell binoculars and have had many people tell me that their 10X are blurry so they want to move up to a higher magnification. I usually give them an 8X to try and they see that magnification was the problem not the solution. If you go to a larger objective lense from a 25 to a 42 the increase of light you capture might be enough to allow you to see more. If you want more magnigication then a scope is the way to go. You can go as high as 60X and still stay fairly economical. Stick with optics that are sealed and water/fog proof. Alpen is a great brand of optics that has won numerous awards for value. One thing to consider, when you go to a store to try out optics. Go on a cloudy, nasty day. All binoculars look great at noon on a sunny day. But in a dark over cast day you will see the difference in good optics.