I would like to see those, Rick. I do not plan on sowing any more seeds so I will have to vicariously experience your other adenium varieties. Do you think they have more extensive roots in the soil? In my case, my last three surviving Arabicums are significantly less anchored than my obesums. I suspected it was due to the poor quality of the seeds but I don't really know. Pagan

Yes, I did mean the physical difficulties of a GD X Chi breeding. From what you say there is already a partial incompatibility in that a female Chi would require a C-section to give birth. I am sure a male Chi is willing but I don't know about the mechanics of such a small dog mounting a GD. Is that a common phenomena round your parts? :) You seem to think that somehow the breeders don't catch such instances. In that case, do such crosses end up being registered with the AKC as Chi's or GDs? I don't think your Mutt argument holds water. Most snakes are common garters but that doesn't mean other snake species don't exist that can cross breed with them. So it is not material whether most dogs are mutts or whether most mutts choose their own mates. It could still be that pruebreds could qualify as species even if there was enourmouse one-way genetic flow from purebreds to mutts. If breeders are indeed keeping their breeds genetically isolated then that is a isolation mechanism same as any other. Whether that is true or not I have no idea. Seems to me that for the most part it is true. They even keep registries of who the parents are. Whether Mutts are more healthy is also not material to my argument. Cheetahs are genetically inbred and not very vigourous but they still qualify as a species. Also note that inbreeding in and of itself is not the cause of genetic disease. The only thing inbreeding does is expose harmful recessives to natural selection. There are species which inbreed early and often which do not have problems (in particular termites). It is the fact that most species do not inbreed that allows harmful recessive genes to be prevalent in the gene pool. Breeders could weed these recessives out but they don't for financial reasons. It's expensive. Inbreeding can be a problem if one has a small pool of individuals and they become so genetically similar that there is no variation in their immune defenses. Thus a germ that is exposed to the selective pressure of getting around a single individuals immune system automatically has the correct attack strategy for the next individual it infects. This is one reason why "clone armies" are unrealistic. Even if you had a very healthy person to clone a germ would eventually arise that would decimate your army. Plant enthusiasts have already experienced exactly this type of situation. Monoclone fields can be more prone to communicable diseases. One named variety may have had it's defenses breeched and may be more prone to certain diseases than other named varieties. Especially when the named variety is vegitatively propagated.

Dealing in any other way than credit card, paypal and the like is prohibitively expensive unless we are talking about very large orders. To give an example, my bank is asking for a euro 50 fee for the transfer of amounts up to 500 euros or so...Three roses which is a reasonable amount will thus cost at the minimum 45+15+50 euros... I have had experience exchanging emails in english with Le Roseraie du Desert and they have been very helpful and easy to talk to (they are Americans if I understand correctly). They accept paypal I gather. I was about to order from them when I needed to be hospitalized last year. Last time I checked Bierkreek the only payment method available was bank transfer or cash which prohibited me from dealing with them. I don't know if this has changed but I doubt it. Additionally you had to email them your request, and they would come back with availability and the shipping costs quote. Not very efficient I think. I've had very bad experience with a couple of german nurseries which never responded to my emails. For one of them I left a bad review in HMF and discovered I was not the only one with such a bad experience. What I like to do is go online to an english language site, put a few roses in my shopping basket, check out, pay with my credit card both the rose price and the shipping cost, receive a confirmation email and be done with it. Anything more complicated than this is a hassle. Contact with the nursery should only be needed if one needs to clarify something or resolve a problem, not for a business as usual order. If contact is needed I expect this to be conducted promptly by email and in english, not because I happen to speak the language but because it is the de facto lingua franca for international commerce. I don't expect to have to use a translator nor jump through the machine translation hoops. So if anybody has any recommendations for such nurseries not in the UK with a good selection of OGR's and the like and which will ship across the EU, they are welcome. PS. Bierkreek seem to be preparing a proper e-commerce site. When they have it ready I will be pleased to try it. PS2. The Lens nursery was mentioned. Below the link to their terms and conditions. Please note, on top of the payment method problem and uknown (and possibly very steep shipping costs judging from their costs for shipping to nearby places like the UK and Germany), their disclaimers about shipping and state of plants on arrival. This is what I call bad business practices and I would never buy from them. Lens nursery (Belgium) terms & conditions

It is on sale at Heirloom right now and I was very interested as well but according to reviews on HMF is prone to fungal infections. I need to research it more but she does look beautiful.