I shared this board with my friend last night. She has been in the animal care field for over 2 decades.Both working for a private practice and for the humane society. She simply couldn't believe the consensus of this board. It drove her to tears. Tears of sadness and of anger. She's seen it all, doesn't expect much. But this.......

I don't know have Marilyn will actually leave this board entirely. I hope not. We need more like her to fight the good fight for those critters who can't speak up for themselves.

But if she does leave, I will understand. The respect is gone. You learn a lot about people by how they treat and see animals. Makes me sad that so many will put the animal last.

Marilyn, I hope you'll reconsider and stay. So many of us love to read about all the animals you take care of and have great respect and admiration for all the good you do for animals.
Re. Melanie, maybe part of the reason she kept trying was because Sweetie was still fairly young, and there was no diagnosis at all. When an animal is old and very ill, it is easier to accept that nothing more can be done. One thing I really don't understand is why a dog vomiting copious amounts of blood was sent home, at least she should have been kept at the vet office and given fluids and other supportive treatments. Hopefully, Melanie will come back and let us know what the vet finds out during the autopsy, it might help someone else's dog.

I don't know how my posts to Melanie came across. I did think she should let the dog go from the beginning... but I'm not going to make her feel worse than she already does. Some people put a lot of faith in their veterinarians to the point where they believe in false hope.

As far as people's beliefs go, I can tell you I'd have no friends left if I discarded all the ones that had a belief or two that was different from mine. I don't like everything they do (I hate some of the things) but it would sure be a lonely life for me if they weren't in it. The same goes for the people here at the KT. Hope you stick around Marilyn.

Oh my gosh...Marilyn...I sure didn't read whatever was said or whoever said it, that you don't belong here. But don't you dare let someone like that chase you away. I'd rather have one of you than a hundred of them.

In your life you have taken so much and brushed it off and continued on. You can do that now. Don't worry about those who don't know anything about you. You know who you are and what you are all about.

You are one of the ones that I would be honored to meet.

patti

Lydia I don't think there is a single person who is against Melanie for her actions. For myself it is that so many people rather than helping her make the tough decision simply did what came easy...gave out hugs and then further (some, not all) slammed those of us who were merely sticking by our principles in trying to put the animal first. I can understand how someone in her grief could wait too long. What I don't understand is people who are outside the situation enabling that waiting to long.

No one wanted to make Melanie feel worse. Those that posted on behalf of the dog just wanted to help her move to take some positive action. The animal was dying and it was suffering. Why is it so hard for people to "get" that? An emotional owner I understand, don't agree with, but understand. But the vet and many posters? Guess I never will.

I agree no animal have to suffer when there is no future for them. My husband had a dog when we married. She lived to such an old age she had dementia and was blind. He would not put her down and it was awful. She would get in a corner and didn't know how to get out. My feelings go further, I don't think humans should have to live like that either.

I forgot to say I hope you don't leave.

The first post I read about it was the one on Monday where Melanie said that her vet wanted to try one more thing; I responded about what a wonderful vet. My fault for not reading the previous posts about the extent of the illness. I do think the dog's suffering should've been ended sooner - absolutely - and I'm horrified at that vet.

But - I don't think that Melanie needed to be beat up about it. I wonder if there is any animal lover who doesn't feel guilty about something somewhere along the line and I'll bet we beat ourselves up more than anyone else can! In my case, for example, a beloved cat wanted to crawl into my lap and cuddle the morning that I was taking him for exploratory surgery. I bustled him off, telling myself that everything would be fine. It wasn't, and during the surgery we chose not to wake him up. I'll forever regret not having that last snuggle; I believe that he clearly knew it'd be our last.

There are ways to say things and ways to not say things. I'm glad for Sweetie's sake that she is free from her struggles now, and very sorry for Melanie.

Marilyn...please reconsider...there are a vast majority of people here who put their animals first....
This situation was bad, but I believe that most people were on the dogs' side. On a words only site, it is difficult at best to understand nuance. Please don't let anything that was said make you leave...sometimes we just need a clear voice of reason, and you are well spoken and can explain many things that some of us just don't think of!
Thanks for listening,
J

Marilyn, you and I go way back and I still consider you one of my best online friends, a soulmate. I don't think that you had anything but the best of intentions, you simply are not a mean spirited person. I think the thread went south because some folks have to be 'right' regardless of the hurt their words are causing along the way.

I often say that there but for the grace God go I, and this was definitely that way. When faced with such a horrible turn of events one clings to hope, no matter how slender that string, we want to believe that there is hope. We love out pets, no one wants to cause harm or pain, but we want to make sure that we are giving them every chance that we are able. I too would have wanted to believe, I don't know for how long.

None of us know what all was going on in Melanie's life, none of us were walking in her shoes. Sometines things are seen more clearly from a distance, sometimes we lead with our hearts, even when it is breaking.

I read the posts with tears in my eyes. I couldn't reply, it was just too painful to me. I lost my dog a month ago and still think of her every single day. I didn't think I could make a sane reply, it was too emotional for me. I did think there was no hope. For that I am sorry. I KNOW how painful it is to have to make that decision..

For me my dog was sick that day, I saw she'd thrown up. Didn't make any connection that day (Friday) sometimes they would do that and be fine. That night I knew she wasn't feeling well and thought we'd be going to the vet on Saturday morning. She was worse by then. Couldn't stand/walk wouldn't eat or drink/ white gums. I could see something was seriously wrong and wanted desperately to make her better. By Saturday a little after noon she was gone. That quick. I still don't know what happened for sure. There was a mass in her stomach they saw on the xrays, she was in liver failure. It was a horrible decision to make on my own with no advise, but after listening to the vet tell me the results of her blood work it was the only decision I could make and seeing my little girlie girl in the shape she was in was just as horrible as making the decision. I could have bought her home to "bleed out" and die on her own. I couldn't do it. I made the decision for BOTH of us. It was heart wrenching and left a hole in my heart the size of Texas!! It was SO hard and life without her is just as hard.

I know you've made the same decisions Marilyn and I know they are always hard and hurt. You always consider the animal above yourself and are the biggest animal lover I know. Probably more than I am myself. I know you were doing the right thing for the animal.

I agree no one wanted to make Melanie feel worse. It seemed like the dog was in agony IMO. I know there were many more thinking what was said on that post and didn't post it. It was past time to say good bye.

Those are my thoughts and mine alone. Now my heart is hurting again, did I make sense or just ramble on?

I stopped reding the dog thread so I didn't know something was going on against Marilyn C. I sure hope you don't leve we so enjoy your posts about your sheltering so many different animals.

This has been extremely upsetting for me.......I just MADE the decision on Sunday for my Bear....it ripped my heart out, but I knew it was time. And I tried twice to help Melanie understand it was the last loving act she could do for her dog.
The graphic details were a little too much information in my opinion( for days and days) to hear that a dog is bleeding out, tells someone like me, or Marilyn , that have dealt with more animals in our life time, than most here...we know what the outcome will be, and again...the details were too much.
We ALL felt terrible for her, but some of us felt worse for her dog.
I haven't know Marilyn very long, but in a short time, one thing I do know is ....they don't come any more compassionate and caring...and she spoke from knowledge and experience.
When you spend a lifetime with multiple animals, YOU just know when there is NO hope left and from the DETAILS we were given, it was clear what needed to be done.

Nodagal....I feel exactly like you do...No one was trying to make her feel worse....just HELP her to be able to do what NEEDED to be done.
I sure hope Marilyn stays here.....She is a TRUE animal lover and devotes every single waking and sleeping moment of her life to animals.

I am so sad that the awful situation Melanie is in has brought some of the rest of us to the brink again. When we lost our beloved Oliver last year, we received so much kind support here, and it made a difference. He was much older than Melanie's dog (14 years old) but became sick very suddenly also. They saw a mass in his abdomen, and he was very anemic. They thought he had cancer. He didn't seem to be in pain, just very tired. Then he stopped eating, and a few days later, after he started showing signs of discomfort, we put him down. They then discovered he had liver cancer. It was heart wrenchingly difficult, and still hurts. If he had been younger, and the vet had offered us hope, I think we would have tried to wait too, so I can so absolutely understand Melanie's dilemma. In this case I think the vet is the one who needs to do a little self evaluation. My heart hurts for Melanie.

Elisabeth

I haven't read the other threads because I knew what they were about and knew I'd get upset. I still won't read them.
Marilyn, please don't leave. Your posts are always a breath of fresh air. I'll just say that an animal should never have to suffer...and that includes human animals.

Sorry, I wasn't insinuating that anyone tried to hurt Melanie's feeling. Her feelings did get hurt.. but I know it wasn't intentional.

Luckily I have never had to second guess myself. Most of my pets died of old age at home. My greyhound developed bone cancer and the only symptom was a small limp which many times she had from racing around the yard.She was to the vets two weeks before, but apparently a clot traveled to her brain and killed her over night unexpectedly. I have never had such a sick pet as Melanie did with all that bleeding which certainly would have had me acting immediately to put her down. BUT, in all fairness to Melanie, her vet was encouraging her. HE should have kept he dog. He should've done the autopsy to find out what he missed. My 10 year old cat Pumpkin was ill and the vet gave him a 30% chance of making it and offered to put him down. . I told him I would feed him special foods and try and build him up. He lived a healthy life till he was 16, and we sent the vet a Xmas card every year. That said, my cat was just lethargic, no diarrhea, vomiting, or bleeding and test were inconclusive. Sometimes I wonder why I have 7 pets because I will be going thru this many times and each time wrings me out. Marilyn..I love your animal stores . I have rehabbed on a much smaller scale than you , and just love the raccoons, opossums, squirrels, and other critters. Don't go.

marilyn, i have never heard of anyone so caring about any animals as much as you are. i didn't read melanie's posts but i have had to euthanize 4 dogs and one cat. one other dog died at the vets while being evaluated and another ran off and was killed as she crossed the interstate. none was easy to deal with but i felt better about having the one's put to sleep when i knew it was time than either of the others. i did it the day i knew they were incurably ill....

Marilyn: You seem to come up with advice especially regarding the wild ones that we need so much. I too have tried to save the wild ones, and it not always the right decision. I just say a quick prayer and ask God to help me make the right decision. If I remember you are usually by yourself most of the time, and that too is difficult. Just sending hugs and let us know how things are going, if you wish.
Marie from ND

No harm. No foul. We calls 'em as we sees 'em, and we do it because we CARE -- about the people AND about their pets.

Vets aren't the only doctors who can always think of *something* more to try. Actually, I've found them less likey to do this than MD's. MD's will seldom say, "There's nothing we can do," even when there IS nothing USEFUL they can do. Sometimes doctors don't want to admit they are losing the battle, but more often they believe they are sparing people who can't accept what is inevitable. I'm saying this here, because it would be taken as badly as Marilyn's comments were if I posted it on threads about terminally ill *people*. IMO, we torture dying people in much greater numbers than we do pets.

Like some others, I read some but not all the posts. Too painful, when you have had to make those decisions, and when you could see that the dog was in obvious agony.
Marilyn.... in my time on this KT, I have read a lot of your responses to posts, and I see you as a compassionate, wise person, with lots of experience and valuable advice to give. Please do not leave. We need you here.

Marilyn, I ask you personally not to leave, it was a very hard week. We have differnt opinions and that is what this board is for. I know in my heart I did what I had to do and what was right for Sweetie, Alot of my posts were throw sorrow and frustration and devestation. You were not here, you were going on what you read, but I am at peace with my choice, I loved my dog more than anything and I tried to help her... Differences in opinions make the world go round. I have no negative thoughts about you or any other poster. If we were all the same and thought the same things would be boring. So don't leave.

Marilyn don't you dare leave the Table.
You are highly respected and loved for your tremendous caring and unconditional love you have for the animals.
I'd love to be working beside you, caring for the animals. At times I'm sure you'd welcome another set of hands.

That thread was filled with emotion and a lot of people were supportive of Melanie because they know what it's like to put down an animal. It should have been done sooner, no doubt

For you to leave, there would be a void at the table, and you'd be sorely missed. Please reconsider.

Dragging out a dog's agony is more than a difference of opinion.

I, too, had to stop reading about that poor dog. I wasn't even going to post here now, but marilyn, please don't let this stop you from contributing. You are very important to the group. Feelings run high on this subject because we all have been there and had to make the hard decision. I choose not to judge but to feel very bad for the animal. Please stay.

Melanie, that was a lovely post. I hope Marilyn takes it to heart. We would hate to lose either of you.

I agree with Alisande very much. Marilyn, you've always received a lot of respect from people here for your knowledge and for your devotion to animals. I hope you were just having an "off" moment when you considered leaving. Please stay.

I haven't read every message, but most of them request that we all remember that we are humans with all of the feelings that make us human. There were days that I could not read the posts....and yet, like looking at a "train wreck" I did look and they made me FEEL as we are meant to feel. Extreeme empathy. Every poster felt that feeling of helplessness which makes us who and what we are...and some expressed that feeling of helplessness the only way we (as humans, writing) are able. That IS the table. Many, many ways of expressing our hopes, our fears and our agony. No one should feel that they need to leave the table because their expression was "different". We were all sharing the anguish of a friend the way we knew how. Let's all stay at the table and give thanks that we have each others shoulders to cry on. Nanny

Marilyn, you have business here. It's the business of keeping people informed about the terrible, horrible things that exist out there for animals. Especially the things that humans do to animals. I cannot imagine the depth of YOUR suffering as you tend to them.

I'm another one who quit reading the Sweetie posts because I couldn't accept letting a beloved pet suffer. I just didn't have the b@lls to call anyone on it. You did, and I admire you for that. Not everyone will accept the things you say ... but if even one person does, then you've helped.