I think for Spanish and other ethnic groups piercing babies ears is quite common.

I don't see any problem with it. Many cultures do ear piercing for girls very early,

Would you be objecting so vigorously to a circumcision for a boy baby? That's a lot more traumatic!

This post was edited by mary_c on Mon, Oct 6, 14 at 21:48

double posting

This post was edited by marygailv on Tue, Oct 7, 14 at 14:22

In my opinion, it's a stupid thing to do, but I guess the mother can do as she wants....

I think you should pick your battles. Your DIL has made up her mind to have it done.

I don't have kids or grandkids. Both of my great nieces had their ears pierced at an early age. I was against it but no one asked me.

They really do look cute. And I agree that is really early.

LOL! You got me Mary, I did not complain about the other twin's circumcision. That just seems more normal to me and it's done for hygiene reasons, IMO.

My DIL is Hispanic, maybe it is just a cultural difference.

I just want more for my granddaughter than to just be a little doll that her mom dresses up and takes pictures of. I swear if I see another naked picture of the twins, I'll just scream or something. How's that for an oxymoron? Don't dress her up and don't take naked pictures of her either!

I never felt that I had the right to do something so permanent to my children as piercing.

Thanks for talking me off the edge, I really just wanted to vent and couldn't at my daughter in law.

I'm starting to realize that my anger is really about something else entirely.

I am with you all the way on this, I would not have an infant's ears pierced, but it will be better to just drop the subject because the mother has made up her mind, but does your son agree, or prefer not to, just to "keep the peace." All babies are beautiful; they don't need anything to make them more so.

I don't see the connection between ear piercing and circumcision. Piercing is a vanity thing; circumcision is a health thing. Actually I thought circumcision was rarely still being done now.

I've seen lots of babies with pierced ears, regardless of ethnicity. I would only throw a fit if the procedure were done on somebody's kitchen table rather than the doctor's office.!

When I was growing up in NYC, it was common in the Hispanic communities, but now it's a much more widespread practice. I don't think babies need to be decorated, and I hate the thought of inflicting pain them, so I understand how you feel. But as Charlee said above, pick your battles. Better yet, when it comes to your daughter-in-law, make every effort to have zero battles.

By all means, now that we know that your dil is hispanic, it's much easier to appreciate the deep rooted tradition in place here. I think that the Spanish cultures have the ears pierced at an extremely early age.

It's her right to follow the traditions of her heritage, don't you think? I'd run out and buy a pair of teensy gold or diamond baby earrings, or her birthstone.

Circumcision is absolutely not for required for health reasons. That reason has been refuted many times.

I'm fine with it being done for religious reasons, but I see no need to do it otherwise.

I think it looks tacky on babies and toddlers, not to mention, it could be a choking hazard if one comes off in the crib at some point.

My thinking always was-when they are old enough to ask to have them done, then we would do it. One daughter did around 10 years old the other is 17 and wouldn't think of it!

Its not a decision I would make for another human being.

"Actually I thought circumcision was rarely still being done now."

Really? I believe that where I live (the Midwest) it's rare that it is NOT done. I have 2 sons and we never considered NOT having it done.

Circumcision was still a routine operation when my son was born 24 years ago - I had to vigorously protest the procedure-as in snatching up my newborn! Religious reasons, yes, "health" reasons, NO.

Pam, if your DIL is Hispanic, I think you are probably right that its a cultural tradition. I see many many Hispanic/Latin baby girls with ears pierced. And recently, many of the young boys but older than the girls.

I don't particularly like it, I don't have many earrings I want to sleep on and a baby has no choice but I agree you should pick your battles. This may have been one of the things she was looking forward to with a daughter of her own.

Maybe by the time this granddaughter is in junior high, Mom will be asking for your help trying to dissuade a nose or lip piercing.....you can always hope ;)

I know you have settled down over this, but I'll reinforce the opinion that this is DEFINITELY nothing to get into a battle about. It's between your DIL and DS.

wrong person to ask..my dds were pierced at 6 months by the peds dr...they wore a screw on type stud (14k) my mother found...oh this was done back in 1972 and 1976....both still wear earrings, and one added a second set of holes but as a teen...

I do think its an ethnic thing. But I wouldn't do it to my child. My grand daughters all have their ears pierced but they were around 10 when it was done by a professional or a doctor. I would also pick my battles,
Mary

I completely understand your feelings, but if the ears are properly taken care of, kept clean and such, it will only hurt for just a second when it is first done.
My sister gave me a check for Christmas when I was seventeen saying it was to get my ears pierced. I never ever would have had it done otherwise. It hurt like crazy, but the worst was when the gun was pulled and it shot through my ear.
Still, I personally wouldn't do it to a baby.

I didn't feel a thing when mine were done as a teenager. Boy, was I nervous about it, lol. I had mine pierced at a jewelry store; my mother took me after we bought some pretty 'starter' earrings.

P.S. Meant to add that I did a little googling for baby earrings, and most of them have little screw on posts. Precious.

This post was edited by rhizo_1 on Tue, Oct 7, 14 at 12:50

I only want to say, I don't remember any pain when I had my ears pierced. Don't worry about that part. Hope this helps you feel a bit better about it.

We begged to get it done, and it was mom's intention to make us wait until we were 12, but I got it at 11, and my sister was even younger. I only regret the 2nd set of holes, but really, no one sees them, I think. I hope! I could probably still put earring in those. Sister would have them wind around her entire lobe. To each their own.

The truth of the matter is that the KT is a good place to vent and get it off your chest because I'm going to level with you....

It's really none of your business...

If I were you I'd just stay out of silly issues like this and any other battles that you possibly can with your daughter in law...the best thing you can do is stay on go terms even if you have to bite your tongue...what ever your DIL and son decide to do with their little ones you should embrace unless it is child abuse...it is not your child to raise or to even be vocal about and it can only cause hard feeling...just be quite...and bite your tongue.

How lovely for you to have baby boy and baby girl grandchildren in your life! Congratulations!

See? It's the 'big picture' that's important. Love. Acceptance.

I know you've figured it out. I know something bugs you about this DIL -- and possibly your DS. It's *done*. They're a couple and now, a family. You're entitled to you opinions and feelings. You can express your opinion on baby earrings -- once, briefly: "This isn't customary in my family." Over and out. Move on.

My son-in-law has a nephew married to a Spanish girl and they have typical huge birthday parties (her first birthday was celebrated in a Union Hall) and I imagine when she turns 15 there will be a quinceanera, so be prepared! I understand these cost as much as a wedding.

This post was edited by marygailv on Wed, Oct 8, 14 at 22:57

The baby shower cost as much as their wedding :-) I have never been to a shower like that!

Again, thank you all for listening to me vent and reminding me that it's not my child.

The earrings I could overlook, but here I see little Hispanic girls wearing tiny little high heels. Now that gets me.

I have pierced ears and love them, and would have had my daughters done earlier except for what my mother saw happen in school as a second grade teacher. During her 25 years of teaching, she had several experiences with girls being injured due to getting other kids clothing or hair snagged on their earrings. One little girl got her earring caught on the sweater of another child as they ran back to the building after lunch recess. The earring tore completely through the girls ear lobe. Usually the injuries weren't this bad, just painful, or a little bit of tearing.

I waited until my daughters were out of elementary school before letting them get their ears pierced.

Jeez, mine sure hurt. That gun stung like crazy! I remember putting alcohol on them, and twirling them regularly.

I've seen people with infection and it hurt too, but I'm sure your daughter in law will keep them clean.

None of my studs are comfortable for sleeping in, I wonder what they give babies.

Times change. When I was young, I only saw pierced ears when the gypsies came through our town with a little carnival.

I had my ears pierced at a department store when I was in my thirties. I was having some inherited diamonds made into earrings, and I didn't want to lose them. Didn't hurt.

I had to wait until I was 16. My parents were so "un-cool"! lol

And it was done with a needle and an ice cube! Oh, those were the good ole days. lmao

My little neighbor, aged 4 now thank you (she corrected me when I called her '3'!), has pierced ears, & they don't seem to faze her one little bit.

I dislike the look of pierced ears on little girls. I also dislike seeing little girls made up or dressed up to appear as small adults.

Maybe that's just me. I do agree and follow the practice that when dealing with adult children, caution is needed. The only advice I give is that which I'm asked to give. I'm otherwise quiet EXCEPT in cases where I see one of them unknowingly heading toward possible disaster or a big problem. That's luckily been rare.

Charlee, I got mine the same way. My girlfriend came over and with an ice cube and a potato, we "got 'er done"!! I was 16 and my mom wasn't too thrilled, but didn't give me any grief over it.

When my mom was in her 80's, she decided to get her ears pierced!!! I was shocked. But she said she always liked mine and wanted to do it too. But in the end the earrings they put in were not very comfortable, so she took them out and didn't replace them. She gave them to me and oh my gosh, they were so "thick". I couldn't put them in my ears!!

The sexualization of children is a very bad & ugly thing, but I don't know that pierced ears are in the same category as make-up & sexy clothes.

It seems to me that babies & little girls who have pierced ears usually wear "little girl" type earrings, things like Hello Kitty or tiny birthstones.

I have a friend who is Italian and on her family side they do get their baby girls ears pierced, she had hers done when she was a baby.

I heard that its actually better to get them done as babies as older due to bones,etc. and so they don't hurt them and yes, they are better and cleaned by mom and taken well care of.

So, many kids get them done and infections happen.

I got mine done at 30 and let me tell you it hurt bad and I got a terrible infection, in fact I sleep heavy on the side and it went right into my ear and it had to be worked out and then stuff put on it all the time and I had to wear the rings so could keep pulling it around and putting the stuff on it.

Then worked with kids and they kept going at them and afraid of getting them pulled and so I took them out and when I did try to put them back in, the hole in one ear had closed up. I was happy I didn't have to do anything about them anymore, best thing for me to not have that anyore.

I had mine done when I was an adult way over 21. I remember the neighbor had a sterile needle, an ice cube and a cut raw potato. It hurt like the devil and my holes are crooked. But I am still alive from that experience. All my girl grand children have had their ears pierced and one grandson has had his ears pierce and his eyebrows. the other grandson is so smart. lol Easy to buy them earrings at the holidays or birthdays. My grandmother had had hers done when she was a child and she would clean the holes with a piece of a broom straw. Yuck.
Mary

A slight feeling long the line of "Leave the kids alone - let them be kids" ... but my lifestyle has been somewhat negative to adornment: about all of the jewellery that I've been involved with was a wedding ring.

As for circumcision ... no skin off of my nose. Seems to me that its original purpose was to offer covering to a sensitive part of the penis, to help to keep it from being somewhat desensitized by the traffic of daily life.

Think son was circumcised, just over 50 years ago: it was somewhat recommended for health reasons, I think. Daughter wasn't, I'm pretty sure - oh, yeah - the folks in areas where they don't practise it call that "mutilation", don't they? With more than adequate reason, I figure.

ole joyful

'no skin off my nose'
Well!
I guess not!

Female "circumcision" *is* mutilation!
It is the hacking away of a large portion of the external genitalia & sometimes even the sewing together of whatever is left, with the goal of keeping the girl "pure" or "clean", which is ironic, since it guarantees a lifetime of susceptibility to infection.

In my eyes, circumcision of boys is mutilation as well;
until the 20th century, it wasn't widely practiced except for religious reasons.

The world wars gave rise to a lot of behaviors that people never used to engage in:
cigarette smoking, supposedly encouraged because it kept soldiers alert & because cigarettes were used as currency of a sort
&, in the name of "cleanliness":
very short hair for men
circumcision.

One thing I like about pierced ears is that you can ignore them & they may go away, & even if they don't, they don't affect anyone's enjoyment of life.

Is it mainly the exterior labia that are hacked off in that culture? I thought that it was mainly the inner labia, the more sensitive part.

Does it involve the clitoris, as well?

One of the major instances of abuse of females.

ole joyful

Yes, it Always involves the clitoris; in fact, that is the main purpose of female genital mutilation, aka fgm or circumcision. The clitoris is either completely removed or cut in half; the goal being to deny the woman sexual pleasure. This is the least extreme kind of fgm. In more severe varieties, the inner labia and sometimes the outer labia are also removed. What is left is then sewn together leaving a tiny opening for urination, and the bride is cut open on her wedding night.

Supermodel Waris Dirie, from Somalia, has written about her childhood, her own circumcision, and her escape to England and her life afterwards in Desert Flower, which was made into a movie (I found it on Netflix). International activist Ayaan Hirsi Ali, also from Somalia, has also written and lectured about this hideous practice.

When I was in graduate school an Egyptian feminist came to my university for some lectures, in the early 80s. She also came to our class in Middle Eastern anthropology to speak specifically about fgm. She showed a short documentary, the filming of an actual fgm ceremony in Egypt, outdoors under a tree, outside a peasant village, done by women who were the professional practitioners of this atrocity, on a 12 year-old girl. Just about the most terrible thing I have ever seen.

FGM is practiced almost universally in Egypt (including in doctors' offices in Cairo) and wide parts of Africa, and also in small enclaves here and there in the Middle East. It's against the law in the States and in England, but girls are sometimes taken back to their parents' home countries to have it done.

Here is a link that might be useful: More about FGM

Thank you, sable, for your message ... gut-wrenching though it is.

I've heard that it's common in several areas of that part of Africa ... and often is at least partially justified by the claim that it relates to some aspects of the Koran: which almost all Muslims reject as spurious explanations.

ole joyful

I'm with you, Pam.

You are welcome, Joyful; not that it gives me any happiness to write about it. As a matter of fact, fgm is not ordained in the Koran, and isn't a specific Muslim practice. In Africa it is done by all religions, Christians and animists as well as Muslim. I think it was already a custom of tribal life before the great religions appeared and was simply absorbed into them as part of keeping women "modest" and "pure".

As to piercing a baby girl's ears, I agree with those who've written that this is not a worthwhile battle to have with one's daughter-in-law! Even the closest MIL-DIL relationship can be tricky enough!