I've listened to it in podcast form. I found many of the topics were Canada-centric, as a result it I found it really not interesting to listen to.

Yes, the approach taken in each country is very different. A system that rations spending as in Canada by having long waits for appointments and procedures and non-coverage of so many essentials would never be accepted in the US. Our "system" has its problems but the well known issues in the Canadian approach make it an unlikely cure here.

The best medical care in other single-payer Commonwealth countries, like the UK and Australia, is available in the private insurer and provider systems that parallel the public ones. In the UK, people who can afford to avoid the NHS via private coverage do so consistently.

snidely - I agree with you - and I am Canadian.

I don't have a clue who's system is right or wrong, but to charge a grumpy old man (my fil) $100,000 for 4 days care seems mighty crazy! first they only have 1 patient rooms, that seem to be a huge waste of money and nursing staff. he was there for breathing and water retention, NOT major surgery...

Snidely is absolutely right. From my own experience, I had a painful knee, saw the doctor the same day I called for an appt., and he said he wanted an MRI of my knee, done the next morning. I don't think that would have happened under the Canadian single payer system. I am friendly with several Canadians who come to Florida for the winters, and have told me about the long waits for appts. and treatment of non-emergency conditions. My knee condition, diagnosed by MRI showed that my cartilage was gone and bone was rubbing against bone; very painful but not life-threatening, but I found it difficult to walk. I was given a series of 3 injections of Uflexa over a period of several weeks, which alleviated my pain and made me mobile again. This was covered by Medicare and my secondary insurance. I doubt I would have received such prompt relief under the Canadian system.

The original post was about a medical-related program that I thought might be interesting in either country.

My suggestion is that folks check it out, and not proceed further with it if they find it not useful or uninteresting.

When I've needed care - I got it.

ole joyful

I've got an interesting tale.

A friend of ours has a special-needs daughter who has developed 'white cataracts' a few years ago and is blind. She can't speak or walk, either.

She has been to our School of Optometry and they referred her to a few opthalmologists who might be willing to look at her. They all refused.

When we were meeting with hubby's opthalmologist and I saw the care and compassion in him, I just asked him if he would consider seeing "Mary" and told him a bit about her. He said that he absolutely would and if necessary, could do the surgery under general anesth.

Well they had the consult last week and our friend is thrilled with him. they just need to finalize a few things first.

He feels our âÂÂhealth care systemâ is not what it should be " itâÂÂs based on âÂÂcommodityâÂÂ" the almighty $$$$ sign. And he was NOT impressed that no other Opthamologist in the Region took the time to see her;(the ones who had been asked by the School of Optometry) they just said No " as they didnâÂÂt want the risk or the âÂÂcost investment' as it's all about the 'numbers' - they can do 3-4 'regular' cataract surgeries in the time it takes for 1 'special needs' case.

He was educated in Philadelphia, and a Dr. Rowe in Boston has performed this exact surgery which is how our friend heard about it.

jasdip, that's a shameful story. I've never heard of a physician refusing a professional referral here in the US. Maybe it happens, but any doctor who describes themselves as "accepting new patients" will take whatever walks in the door if the doctor practices whatever medicine the patient needs. Especially on a referral.

Some of our doctors are as mercenary as any anywhere, maybe more so, but to back away from treating a patient in need is really disgusting.

That's the rub isn't it joyful? I just don't get it. I hear horror stories from some Canadians, and then if you repeat that you've heard it, other Canadians will defend the system to the end. It's very puzzling to say the least. I was in insurance brokerage for a score of years and know full well what it's really like on both sides of the border. So do tell, why defend it so much if there are those who truly exist that don't get the care they wish to receive (which does sound very socialistic)? They may have an ailment they consider elective and/or really want to get it repaired, but must wait inordinate amounts of time, or, come here?

Why is there such congruence between reality and perception about the CN system? And why does it irritate those who think it's so wonderful? Surely, you must know it's not perfect. Any more than the US system is perfect. Both are incredibly funky. You'll notice I said I WAS in insurance brokerage. There's a reason for the past tense.

This post was edited by rob333 on Wed, Oct 15, 14 at 12:33

Rob333, the reason single-payer systems are so wonderful is that they cover EVERYONE. The US sees health care as a personal benefit for those able to pay, while the rest of the western world sees it as a right. There will be anecdotes of bad care anywhere, probably no more in Canada than the US.

Jasdip, I hope your friend reported the refusals for care to your health-governing agency. Fwiw, I had a friend with a disabled dd who had a tough time with medical procedures, and not all doctors had the ability to treat her due to difficult behavior.

They cover EVERYONE who cares to wait forever for things they want now??? That's great? And instead of waiting, they come south to get what they will not wait for. But you prove my point. You think it's the bomb, so you'll fight for it even when there are those who say they don't want to wait. Both systems have huge flaws.

Oh, and anyone who wants coverage in US can get it. That's what changed recently. So if that's your talking point, you missed the legislation change.

There are always horror stories but all in all I am satisfied with our system and I think too it depends on where you live and the care you get due to population size and what doctors or specialists are available. My city is lacking in certain specialists so there is a wait time for many consults or procedures. If people don't want to wait for knee surgery as they often do and if they can afford it they drive a few minutes to the US or to another city and have it done there. In some centres people have to wait to get a mammogram, I can get in a day or two and have it done. My Doctor has a really busy practice and a clinic but I rarely ever have to have an appointment to see him. I just call and I can usually get in to see him the same day. I don't know what kind of pull he has but even to see a specialist or to get a scan my sister or I have never had long to wait. I was booked for an unltrasound within a day of seeing my doctor. If you have cancer the referral time isn't so long either. Some of the hospitals due to fundraising on their own are able to bring in new machines that make wait times less but again that depends where you live. People here now can get angiograms where before you had to travel out of the city.

Some procedures that aren't available here or are emergencies many patients go to the US and our health plan allows it. Also the community I live in is an automotive centre and big union town so almost everyone I know is covered by some extra coverage the employer agreed to in their union contracts. Drugs, physio therapy, chiropractor, medical supplies not covered through the government

I agree refusal of service is a terrible thing and I have seen it used on the elderly and people with multiple problems. That should not be tolerated but I guess the Doctors can decide who they want to spend time treating or not have to deal with the difficulty that some patients present. I don't think our ER wait times are much different than in the US from what I hear my friends talk or post about. I may change my opinion of our health care system if and when I encounter some of these situations or wait times but right now from what I have experienced and what I have seen my family and friends experience I don't have a problem with it. If I need a prescription drug for something like an antibiotic or a more expensive drug like when I broke my knee that I couldn't afford my Doctor arranges for me to get them through his drug rep. He always asks me if I have coverage. Our drugs aren't covered unless you are a senior or on disability or welfare and even then there is a once yearly co-pay. If you need expensive cancer medications they are often covered by the Cancer Clinic. I do dread the day though when my Doctor decides to retire only because of his personal service and he knows me but we have walk in clinics every few miles where many of the doctors can become your primary doctor if you go when they are on clinic duty.

Rob, you have the viewpoint of someone who has had and expects excellent medical care always. The pressures of population make this a difficult mandate for all, and not affordable except through taxation and government control. Yes, this is a hot topic. My dd wasn't working for several months and had to/is paying $315 per month for medical, which would be unsustainable for very long. (I live in the US, not Canada.) Not all the states' leaders have allowed ACA in, unfortunately.

I am another Canadian who is happy with my medical care here. Notice I said "my" because I sure wouldn't be, if anyone in my family was turned away by certain doctors, or had to wait a long period of time to have a procedure done or see a specialist. So I certainly don't disagree with the points brought up here, about flaws in our Canadian health care system.

As mentioned by another Canadian, one's standard of health care here, indeed varies greatly, in accordance to where you live. Because I live in the Toronto area, I have close access to some of our country's best hospitals, with leading facilities for cancer care, cardiology, hernia repair, knee/hip replacement, cataracts and so on.

No member of my family has ever had to wait longer than 24 hours to be seen by our primary care physician, unless it was us, who just couldn't take off work for the opening they offered. Admittedly, our primary care physician seems to be a magician at getting us in to see specialists, as we've never waited longer than 2 weeks to see one, unless it was for a very elective, non-progressive condition.

That said, It is very disconcerting that many people in smaller cities do not share the same experience and that even in larger cities, individual doctors make such a difference.

I am grateful however, to know that my extended family who live all across Canada, at the very least, share one thing in common. As long as they show a Canadian health card, they can walk into any medical clinic or hospital Emergency and be seen by a physician, with not a cent in their pocket. I've done it for over 50 years.

Those who live in the US can walk in, not a cent to their name, and get seen at a medical clinic or hospital Emergency. I don't know why Canadians think that we cannot. It's not the first time I've heard it, but it's patently untrue. We have programs that cover those folks, both state and federal. Even if the state doesn't have ACA. My point was, we both have flawed systems. Yours really isn't all that fantastic if there are people who don't receive the care they want. And there are. Ours really isn't that fantastic if there are people who don't receive the care they want. And there are. Sounds the same to me!

So what are we going to do about it? How can ALL Canadians get seen for all the ailments for which they want a cure, in the timeframe they want? How can we keep down the rising costs? I know we can't. We have an aging population, who, because they're aging, have rising health issues, which sends the spiral higher. I know working class US folks can't foot the entire bill. Can't happen. So how do these problems it get fixed?

Have any of you checked the radio program that I referred to originally?

How do other folks in the U.S. find it, is it relevant, or irrelevant, in your opinion?

I had a feeling that it would be relevant on both sides of the border when I wrote it.

ole joyful

**I just heard from our friend and hubby's opthalmologist will be doing surgery on her daughter (who has some special needs). mid November.

She developed white cataracts a few years ago and is blind. Her mom just wants her to be able to see again. She's unable to walk and talk, so having sight means a lot to her.

The doctor will be performing cataract surgery under general an. and will do both eyes at once. It will take 1.5 hours He spent 50 minutes with her, for her initial testing and exam. Talk about caring, and never once treated her like a second-class patient or anything.

She's over-the-moon ecstatic and considers the doctor a miracle.

This post was edited by jasdip on Thu, Oct 16, 14 at 21:18

rob, apparently you assumed I was comparing our countries' health care and that I thought Americans had to pay at medical clinics and hospital ERs. I actually grew up just 10 minutes from Detroit, where my mother worked, so I was already aware of this. In fact, my whole post was speaking only of medical care in Canada (hence no mention of America at all) and how it unfortunately varies so greatly here, according to where one lives.

I mentioned being grateful to know that my family and others who don't live near large cities, at the very least, can expect the same access to prompt treatment at medical clinics and hospital ERs at no cost, by virtue of their Canadian Health Card. But it's a pity that in Canada, while everyone gets free health care, wait time for specialists or surgeries seems a privilege based on location. Apologies if my post confused you or anyone else.

OJ, I've heard Dr. Brian Goldman's program on the CBC and enjoy it very much. Haven't heard the one that you mention, though.

I'm bringing this to the top just to let you know that my friend's daughter had her cataract surgery done on Wed.

The operation was a huge success. She was put under general anesth. and when she awoke, she was able to see for the first time in 2 years.

She is just livid that no one would undertake this operation, so that she could have a better quality of life. She is almost immobile, and cannot speak, so having vision is a huge improvement for her.

The opthalmologist also filmed the operation for teaching purposes.

I have had only one encounter with the Canadian Medical system and that one made me a fan of it. My family was vacationing on a remote island in the Winipeg flowage when my young son was running, tripped and run an old pine peg into his leg just below the knee cap. We traveled 5 miles by boat back to a landing and then another 30 miles out of the woods to the nearest Provincial hospital. After a wait of about one hour, they admitted my son, removed the remaining wood from the wound, cleansed and bandaged it and gave a tetanus shot.

And now it was time to pay. I hauled out my US based insurance card and was advised not to use it since it would cause more bother than it was worth. I was concerned as I asked how much was the bill. I was flabbergasted when they replied, " $12.50 Canadian." with an apology that they had to charge for materials used. I happily paid the $12.50 and got a receipt. Vacation was saved! I became a fan of their medical system. [ That was $12.50 in about 1968. Add inflation to index it up to today's price.]

Oh, it's all over the news now. A young couple were on a vacation in Hawaii. She was 6 months pregnant. They bought travel insurance through Blue Cross.

While in Hawaii, her water broke and she delivered early. The baby spent several weeks in the hospital, and they came home.

Blue Cross refused to pay any of the costs, and they're faced with almost $1 million hospital bill. $950,000.

Rob333 - you have no idea what you are talking about. In fact, I think my brain may have even exploded just reading your posts.

Our local hospital can not refuse emergency treatment. There is no federal or state assistance. You don't pay the bill, you get sent to collection. You can call the county "assistance" office. All they do is request years worth of records and receipts and formulate a monthly "payment plan".

You will NOT be treated at a walk in clinic if you do not have insurance or cash. You give them your insurance card, they call the insurance company to make sure you have met your deductible. If you have not, you pay for the visit up front, 289.00, and wait while they call your bank for verification of funds before you are seen. If you have met your deductible, you make your copay before you are seen. If you do not have insurance, cash up front! And, again, wait while they verify funds.

There have been times that the funds have been electronically transferred from my account before I even left the facility.

Hi (again) jasdip,

Was the little one, born prematurely ... but within the 6 months that's supposed to allow them to fly ... in the hosp. for two weeks ... or two months? Their family doc had verified that she was in good condition.

An article in "Canadian MoneySaver" magazine several months ago said that it's fairly often that medical insurance for travel companies will find various reasons to refuse to pay. Many Canadians can find a copy in one of their local libraries.
__________________________

Again ... may I suggest that some who might be interested go to www.cbc.ca/white coat and check a couple of the programs to see whether you consider them relevant to you.

A recent one dealt with how the medical people deal with mistakes.

ole joyful

This week it was about how our doctors who served for a while with a service agency in the part of Africa where the Ebola issue is active were dealt with on returning to our countries.

ole joyful